Vitamin D 3 supplements

[PhilC]

@aynurrzepa wrote:

Now, my D is extremely low.. ready: 6 in June and 12 in Sep! After the June test I started mega supplementation, up to 50,000 IU a day… It only doubled my vit D, I was told to take one alpha, but I decided to wait until I tried another couple of months with 50,000 IU a day…

Hi Aynur,

I recommend reading these web pages:
http://mpkb.org/home/publications/waterhouse_new_research_2006
http://mpkb.org/home/pathogenesis/vitamind/metabolism
http://mpkb.org/home/tests/125d
http://mpkb.org/home/tests/25d
http://mpkb.org/home/tests/dtesting

When most doctors test for vitamin D, they test for the “inactive” form, which is 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25-D). The active form of vitamin D is 1,25-dihydroxvitamin D (1,25-D). If you haven’t done so already, it might be helpful to make sure that you are tested for both vitamin D metabolites and not just the “inactive” one.

Phil

P.S. I edited this post because I accidentally left out the link to the second web page.

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[Patti D]

Phil,
Are you a successful patient of the Marshall Protocol? I am never sure which way to go on this but do know vitamin D does make a difference. More confused again 😕
Patti

[aynurrzepa]

Hi after a long time – been away on holidays and had no time to check in here! Happy and Healthier New Year to All!

Oh, I am so confused too. I have taken all the links from this thread to read in peace and quite at night after which I’m sure i will be even more confused..

Thanks to all for posting all these interesting and useful links…

I am awaiting my vit D3 results and probably I will take Phil’s advice (thanks Phil!) to get tested for D2. My blood Ca and Mg are in normal ranges…

A FRIEND,

I’m thinking about the systemic candida – I am sure I don’t have it, but maybe I’m wrong – need to research more. I also read about PH to be slighly alkaline even tried the acid-alkaline diet but I was feeeling lousy on it – very cold all the time, worsening of Raynaud’s attacks… So researched more and found Dr. Mercola’s nutritional typing. I am now on high protein diet and feeling fine. I went off it for a week while on hols over the x-mas/new year period with more bread, sugar and pastry than recommended and felt noticeably worse… So back on my high protein/meat/saturate fat diet and feeling fine again… On the other hand, I wonder if it’s possible for me to achieve alkaline PH with such diet? I eat a lot of meat (3 times a day, high purine) plus a lot of good organic fats and oils, raw and slightly steamed low calorie veggies also 3 times a day with no starch/bread but my Ph is acidic. I’m not supposed to have alkalising lemons, cucumbers, most green leavy veggies as in protein types they act differently and make your body even more acidic unlike with carb or mixed types… In contrary, meat which is highly acidic, is not acidifying for protein types… And then we all take abx – how can alkaline ph be achieved for any of us when we are all taking abx? No matter how right I eat – if I take abx, my ph will be acidic, right? I compensate with probiotics so that should balance it out? I would like to know if A Friend was able to achieve alkaline Ph with abx? I think I will have to read Doug Kaufmann’s articles to understand…? I wonder also if for Protein types, blood should remain slightly acidic? Totally confused and cannot find this info anywhere will need to ask Dr. mercola directly, I guess!… Sorry for this “loud thinking” – A Friend’s post just sparked up all my doubts that I had lurking in my mind for a while now…so they all came pouring out…

By the way, further to my previous post, I did not get sick/catch cold – despite one of my kids and 2 other family members had flu (5-6 days with high temps) but it avoided me. I only felt unwell for about 30 min when I was writing my previous post in this thread so is it Vit D working or my total “health program” – don’t know… I’m worried about the immunesupressive propertiy of Vit D – off to read this one particular article urgently – it’s hard to believe as all info to date indicates it’s immunosupportive! Well, I should not guess but go read… 😕

[PhilC]

Hi Patti,
@Patti D wrote:

Phil,
Are you a successful patient of the Marshall Protocol?

No.

@Patti D wrote:

I am never sure which way to go on this but do know vitamin D does make a difference. More confused again 😕

That’s understandable considering it’s a complex subject.

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[Nell2]

Just throwing out there that Dr. J’s PA turned kind of pale when I asked about MP. “NO,” she said, very firmly. I asked why, and she said because it doesn’t work and it makes people sicker.

So I’m following her advice to take 5,000 iu to boost my low number. I figure I will try it Dr. J’s way first, even for a few years, before worrying about alternatives.

I have read that gluten sucks vit D — I think in Braly’s Dangerous Grains.

Nell

[Maz]

@Nell2 wrote:

I have read that gluten sucks vit D — I think in Braly’s Dangerous Grains.

Nell, thanks for sharing this…very interesting factoid! 🙂 I learn something new around here every day…such smart, pro-active people visit this site.

Interesting that Dr. J’s office advises against MP – my LLMD expressed similar concerns. These are two of the top LLMDs in the country, so they must have experience to back their assertion on this.

[PhilC]

Hi Aynur,
@aynurrzepa wrote:

On the other hand, I wonder if it’s possible for me to achieve alkaline PH with such diet? I eat a lot of meat (3 times a day, high purine) plus a lot of good organic fats and oils, raw and slightly steamed low calorie veggies also 3 times a day with no starch/bread but my Ph is acidic.

How are you measuring your pH?

@aynurrzepa wrote:

I’m worried about the immunesupressive propertiy of Vit D – off to read this one particular article urgently – it’s hard to believe as all info to date indicates it’s immunosupportive! Well, I should not guess but go read… 😕

Hopefully I can clear that up a little for you. I believe the claims that vitamin D is immunosuppressive are inaccurate and misleading. Based on my understanding of what I have read about it so far, what they really should say instead is that too much vitamin D is immunosuppressive.

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[Patti D]

Hay Maz,
Happy New Year! I am curious why these doctors have not been fond of MP? When I first joined this group it was split pretty much down the middle, half MP & the other half AP. Some went from one to the other and back.

Thanks Phil for your information.You may need this guy 😎 too 😆 😆

I really would love to know who stayed on MP and who continues to do well. Just curious. I am not interested ever in avoiding the”sun”. There was a lot of the discussion about suppressing vitamin D production. Warm weather and sunshine is craved here in winter and I swear I feel better when exposed to the D from the sun 😎
Patti

[Maz]

@Patti D wrote:

Happy New Year! I am curious why these doctors have not been fond of MP? When I first joined this group it was split pretty much down the middle, half MP & the other half AP. Some went from one to the other and back.

Hi Patti and a very happy, healthy new year to you, too!

Patti, I can only speak to what my LLMD shared with me…I will, however, just say that I am as confused as the next person about the Vit D issue. I do supplement with D3 and feel so much better in the sun, so this is what I’ve chosen to do.

So…what I’m about to share is not to stir controversy…just to relay what my doc, in his medical opinion, shared with me…

After speaking with TM, my LLMD said he was not convinced by MP science and was also very concerned about the very high doses of benicar (a drug that also apparently has anti-inflam and anti-histamine props). As Nort recently shared, benicar in high doses can cause synscope (loss of consciousness and fainting) and this was a major concern for my doc. Although this is thought to be due to “immune-pathology” (the MP expression for herxing), this reaction could also be attributed to very high doses of benicar causing bradycardia (very slow heart rate). Of course, this is based on my doc’s medical opinion and MPers might disagree with this – just sharing what he told me from memory. 😉 He has also shared in his professional opinion, as a doc who has treated thousands of Lyme patients, that the abx and doses used in MP cannot adequately address Lyme, its cystic form and certain coinfections – a big no-no in Lyme treatments, which need to be individualised to patient pathogen load. As far as I know, the MP is still so new (7 or 8 years?) and, until independent research is able to confirm the theory, I think LLMDs mostly tend to adhere – as far as is possible – to evidence-based medicine (research that’s been independently replicated)….though I understand that there are a few LLMDs and Lyme patients out there who do use it.

There used to be a lot of discussion here about MP, but it’s really an entirely unique protocol with a very different philosophy, requiring adherants to go to the MP forum to get info, support and to be guided on it there, as we just don’t have the knowledge base here. When John McD was an RBF volunteer, he was able to share his knowledge of MP – if I am recalling rightly, he went on it after he reached the 95% improved mark on AP after a little over a year – so his presence here spurred discussion. Now, we just refer people who are interested to go to the MP site for further info, as the advocates there are better equipped to provide the educational resources needed for that particular protocol.

[Patti D]

Maz,
Your memory is excellent 😉 as usual. You also remember all of the discussions on Vit D. That is why I was so suprised to see this in the news again(when I started this thread)
Those are quite serious side effects, the syncope & bradycardia. Can’t understand why anyone would take that road unless they were like John McD and 95% there although I am a real scary cat and at getting to 95% certainly wouldn’t want to rock the boat There is so much “new science out their on the relationship of the AI diseases to all different types of bacteria & viral pathogens” Maybe now more doctors won’t be so quick to think we are all nutso when we choose this road!

I am looking forward to getting some Vit D( sunshine) shortly. I am going on vacation, the first in 3 years now that hubby is back working. He’s working and I am going on a girls trip with my sister & daughters to Hawaii 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀
I can’t wait to get some real D 😆 Hubby is being a good sport. He will get his vacation in June when we all go to Mexico for my sons destination wedding.I just keep clicking my heels and say ” I wanna stay healthy, I’m going to stay healthy “
As usual I am sending positive healthy vibes to all of the RB folks. 😀
Patti

[Parisa]

When we first came aboard here a good five years ago, there was quite a bit of discussion about Vitamin D. Sunshine at that time seemed to make my husband more ill but then so did everything else. Since he spent most of the time flat on his back and was covered heat to toe it wasn’t difficult at all to limit any sun exposure. At the third year mark or so, when my husband’s condition started to turn around I decided that the no VItamin D and/or sunshine wasn’t helping and he started to supplement Vitamin D and get sun exposure and is doing well.

I think if you have sarcoidosis the MP protocol is something that should be looked into. Otherwise, I think it may cause more harm than good. Just my very unscientific gut feeling.

[Lynne G.SD]

Hi Parisa;
My sister who has MCTD and Lupus is doing wonderfully with MP.Seems that Lupies can’t take heavy doses of antibiotic as the rest of us can.Now she is in a real pickle as she ended up with that tell tale bull’s eye rash this summer.She has lived way up north in the Yukon where you would not expect to see Lyme.Looking back she figures she must have had ir for at least a decade to 15 years and now that her immune system is better,it is showing it’s ugly head.

[Parisa]

Hi Lynnie,

If your sister is doing well on the MP, she should continue. As you said, many Lupus patients don’t do well on heavy antibiotics. As far as the rash, my husband developed bullseye rashes well into Lyme treatment. The ony concern would be if she has Babesiosis that isn’t being touched by the MP protocol.

[Kim]

Hi Lynnie,

I’m very happy to hear your sister is doing so much better, she was really in a bad way not that long ago. I agree with Parisa and wouldn’t rock the boat while things are moving in the right direction and she’s seeing improvements. It sounds as if her immune system has become more regulated and can possibly handle her latent infection(s). My doc always says if it’s working keep doing it, and if it’s not then change something.

Take care…..kim

[aynurrzepa]

@PhilC wrote:

Hi Aynur,
@aynurrzepa wrote:

On the other hand, I wonder if it’s possible for me to achieve alkaline PH with such diet? I eat a lot of meat (3 times a day, high purine) plus a lot of good organic fats and oils, raw and slightly steamed low calorie veggies also 3 times a day with no starch/bread but my Ph is acidic.

How are you measuring your pH?

@aynurrzepa wrote:

I’m worried about the immunesupressive propertiy of Vit D – off to read this one particular article urgently – it’s hard to believe as all info to date indicates it’s immunosupportive! Well, I should not guess but go read… 😕

Hopefully I can clear that up a little for you. I believe the claims that vitamin D is immunosuppressive are inaccurate and misleading. Based on my understanding of what I have read about it so far, what they really should say instead is that too much vitamin D is immunosuppressive.

Phil

hi Phil,

I test it using urine and saliva test strips one can get in pharmacy. I’m going to try to discuss this doubt of mine on Mercola’s site, to see if I get any sensible explanation.

I was wondering about MP for a while but never had time/chance to learn more. I now read the MP article on Vit D given in this thread and found it such a complete opposite to anything I read before and hence indeed very confusing. I have to read it again to fully understand it anyway let alone decide if I feel it sounds wrong or right… 😆

I will check my active D and probably it will be in high range maybe not. Obviously, I am still confused: if active D is in high ranges, is any supplementstion apart from normal sunshine required? Is it really important that reserve D is also in higher ranges? I might get my answers in vitaminDcounsil website I suppose but I personally feel as long as active D levels are good, we should not worry? If reserve levels are low it’s just a sign there is something wrong in the body and D is being used up instead of getting stored. And we should only worry if low active levels are present and we are feeling unwell? And this is is the time we should really supplement? Too much D has couterproductive effect and getting rid of vit D toxicity can be a difficult and a long process. So this is where we shoudl be carefull.
Dr. Mercola and those who he follows say optimal levels for good health are 60-70 and healing levels are around 100. anything more than 100 and you get the reverse effect (toxicity). I feel once your reserve level reaches the optimal levels it’s a sign you are healthy and that’s the only time when such levels are possible. I am still unsure if extra vit D3 actually has curative effect (and I believe sunbathing is the best way but possible not working or suitable or even possible for all), I still have to reach those levels first and see how I do before I can comment. But I suspect that all that extra D taken as supplement or by sunbathing is used up to cure and still doesn’t get stored and can only then start getting stored when the person reaches health. This is the reason why I am struggling to get my levels up despite such huge supplementation and won’t succeed it until I’m healthy again (with AP’s help 😉 !). These are all my guesses but I need to find more or less definitive answer as deciding what supplements to take and how much without knowing for sure is quite silly…

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