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This sounds like it could have some potentially dangerous side effects. If I read the posts correctly, and an article an wikipedia, it's main action is oxidation, i.e. corrosion. I'm sure it does destroy bacteria, good and bad, as well as other cells in our bodies. Antibiotics target specific types of bacteria based on things like whether or not they are aerobic, anaerobic, etc, but even they destroy some bacteria that we need, which is why we take probiotics. But they don't destroy all kinds of bacteria, or all cells. There is a type of medication that does destroy other cells as well as the target cells, and that class of drugs falls under chemotherapy. One drug in that category we're all familiar with is mtx.
It's been said that MMS is poisonous if not diluted correctly, but if it's strong enough to destroy bacteria, it's strong enough to destroy other types of cells too, right? I'd be very concerned about the long term effects of MMs, and even the short term effects. How is it metabolized, and where is it metabolized? What is it's half-life? How does it affect the liver and kidneys, and does it pass the blood-brain barrier? How long do you have to take it? How does it affect our metabolite balance? There are no studies on the possible side effects. This group is so good about researching therapies and trying to find treatments that do as little damage as possible while getting the disease under control. IMO, we should proceed with caution on this one. If MMS really does destroy all of these viruses, bacteria, protozoa, etc, without any serious effects, it would have been used long before now to treat infections. Sorry guys, this one is too scary for me.:shock:
linda
Hi, Richie:
I was a skeptic also, but I met and discussed this with several of the parties involved, and one has agreed to make a copy of his letter for me, but I don't yet have it in my hand. My real estate agent knew this doctor, who just instantly abandoned his property without a word to anyone.
A post office does not have to be open to mail letters from–the guys came armed with postage stamps (and laptops and printers apparently, too) but the idea being that, once they have been deposited there, the doctor was not likely to retrieve them. Of course, he could have sent retraction letters out the very next day, but he decided not to tempt “fate.”
You are exactly right–it does not pass the smell test and that is why I am still researching the incident–I want to know who these guys are and who they think they are, if they even really are…
But the facts are that many people have suffered from making the wrong type of discoveries–like Naessons and Rife–at the wrong times and places. They did not then have 60 Minutes to interview them…
Regards,
John
Sounds like driniking Clorox.
If it kills so many pathogens, won't it also kill human cells?
quote
“Miracle Mineral Solution is a 28% solution of sodium chlorite in distilled water. Though often referred to in acronym (i.e. “MMS”), an important distinction must be made between Miracle Mineral Solution and the “MMS Protocol” established by chemist and metallurgist Jim Humble and detailed exhaustively in his book, “Breakthrough, the Miracle Mineral Supplement of the 21st Century”.When Miracle Mineral Solution is activated according to Jim Humble's protocol (1:5 drop solution using vinegar with 5% acetic acid or greater, lemon or lime juice, or a 10% solution of citric acid), the chemical compound chlorine dioxide is produced. If your privately intended use for Miracle Mineral Solution is to activate it in accordance with Jim Humble's protocol, it is advised you read Mr. Humble's book and study the various third party resources made available here for your convenience.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine_dioxide
OOps. Just noticed Linda expressed before me same misgivings as meYeah, the jury is out on this product for me, as well. I've decided to read the e-book to learn more about it, but will take some convincing at this point. There is something about this product that reminded me of DMSO, which a number of rheumatoid patients have by IV…the fact that it is a by-product of the wood pulping industry and that MMS is used to bleach paper. Weird sort of link. I'm not too keen on the use of DMSO, either, though its used medically all the time as a medication transporter of sorts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyl_sulfoxide
Am open and always willing to learn more, but would need convincing, I think.
Peace, Maz
Hi Richie,
You don't have to “buy it” The guy is not in it for the money. He states that in his book. He is not a money man. He is a man with a sweet humble heart who is very huminitarian. If you would get the book, perhaps you would read how he had things documented. Also, he states over and over again that the FDA would not want this product approved because it would indeed kill off bacteria and viruses and people will be better. The FDA wants drugs that create a repeat business.
If we can clobber the bacteria, mycoplasmas etc…what a better life we will all have.
I understand your skepticism. Isn't that also what the main problem is with the AP? Its a drug that even its own (doctors) will not promote. Perhaps not enough $$$ in it for them, and for the FDA and all the other medical people along the way.
I don't know about you, but for me, I always have my eyes and ears open along with an open-mind because if I don't, I just might miss my healings and blessings.
Diane/WI
I'm with Ritchie on this one. Mino has double blind studies to back up its effectiveness. When all a product has is anecdotal evidence and every web site is focused on a sale – warning bells go off. If it were that great, the whole world would know about it and everyone would be using it. Lets see some objective research before we jump on this bandwagon. Of course, if it makes you feel better and does no harm, nothing wrong with taking it even if it is the placebo effect at work.
Whilst I'm certainly not suggesting anyone should start taking MMS, I also don't think the 'if it were so good everyone would know already about it' argument holds much water.
If that were the case, all the rheumatologists at my hospital would know about the AP, and maybe even be using it, but they don't and they aren't.
Just because something works doesn't mean everyone gets to know about it. I think it's the fact that MMS is supposed to work on bacteria, viruses, heavy metals, fungus and parasites that makes it seem too good to be true. And if it seems too good to be true, well, you know the saying… and people don't look into it any further.
The good thing with MMS is that it's just activated sodium chlorite, which produces chlorine dioxide, and there's loads of research articles and industrial uses detailing what it does and how it does it. So, it's pretty easy to check whether it does what it says on the tin, as it were.
Whether it is capable of removing that laundry list of things once ingested in the human body, is what is up for debate, but it most certainly removes those things from water and food and surfaces. The evidence is there in spades. There's a company here who use activated sodium chlorite for numerous disinfectant purposes http://www.scotmas-healthcare.com/ . This is just one of many companies that sell this product for comercial uses. This is a good one page summary of how safe and effective chlorine dioxide is, as used commercially: http://www.clearwater.eu.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=37&Itemid=221
Having used it myself for two months, I am quite convinced of both its safety and efficacy, but as I said in an earlier post, small doses are most likely better than larger ones, and I also wonder whether for us auto-immuners, a pulsed dose might be even better??
Oh, here's another very interesting link, talking about chlorine dioxide and how it differs from chlorine (and is much safer generally).
http://www.chlorine-dioxide.co.uk/Properties/tabid/108/Default.aspx
[align=justify]Chlorine Dioxide (ClO2 ) is a powerful yet selective oxidizing agent. It is a greenish yellow gas at room temperature that is very soluble in water and even more soluble in hydrocarbons. Unlike chlorine, chlorine dioxide is not a chlorinating agent and pure chlorine dioxide does not form THMs, nor does it chlorinate organics. It doesn't react with water to form free chlorine or react with ammonia to form chloramine. Additionally, ClO2 is less corrosive than chlorine and has efficacy across a broad pH range.[/align]
[align=justify]Chlorine dioxide is an extremely powerful oxidizing agent, microbiocide, viricide, bactericide, protocide and algicide. Unlike chlorine, chlorine dioxide is not a chlorinating agent and pure chlorine dioxide does not form THMs, it doesn?t chlorinate organics, and it doesn?t react with water to form free chlorine. Additionally, Chlorine dioxide is soluble in water, is less corrosive than chlorine and has efficacy across a broad pH range.[/align]
True Gas[align=justify]Chlorine dioxide ClO2 is a true gas. This means that it retains its chemical structure and properties at all times. For example another true gas is Oxygen. Chlorine dioxide does not form another compound when introduced to water or other solvents. No matter what chlorine dioxide is dissolved in it retains the same structure and reactive properties. Chlorine dioxide is very soluble in both aqueous and hydrocarbon media. Because it is a dissolved gas it is energetic and very mobile. Because it is very soluble in many medias it can penetrate through material that protect microorganisms from other biocides. For example in water system bacteria can be protected by a polysaccharide film.[/align]
[align=justify]Chlorine has difficulty penetrating this film because of its chemical nature and because it is a ionic material in water. Chlorine dioxide however permeates through the polysaccharide layer and kills the bacteria beneath the protective layer. This results in chlorine dioxide being very effective in the control of biofilm. In a petroleum production or environmental application, chlorine dioxide can penetrate the hydrocarbon layer and oxidize the contaminants or kill bacteria that are shielded by hydrocarbon.[/align]
Reaction with water[align=justify]Typical household bleach is manufactured by adding chlorine to water and adjusting the pH with caustic or sodium hydroxide. Chlorine dioxide in water remains as a true gas, allowing it to be very mobile and penetrating. In fact if a flask is filled half full with a chlorine dioxide solution and then a hydrocarbon such as hexane or diesel is added to the top, the chlorine dioxide will travel from the water phase into the hydrocarbon phase until equilibrium is reached. Additionally some of the chlorine dioxide will escape from the hydrocarbon layer to the air above.[/align]
[align=justify]To further illustrate this point, if the flask was made out of plastic, the chlorine dioxide would permeate into the flask as well. This mobility combined with the fact that chlorine dioxide remains in the same state makes chlorine dioxide a uniquely powerful tool for control of microorganisms. Bacteria cannot hide from chlorine dioxide.[/align]
Hi
This is getting troublesome –Chlorine dioxide is a dangerous chemical –if one goes to scorecard.org –one would see the incredi9ble toxicity of this and people ingest it . ????????????It is an anti -bacterial –to purify water –rid fruits and vegs of bacteria etc but to ingest it directly –good luck
Richie
It doesn't look all that toxic to me, when used in a controlled fashion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine_dioxide
“This form of chlorine dioxide is currently being used against bacterial and viral outbreaks including MRSA, Legionella, and Norovirus.”
Warrant's further investigation.
I'm keen to give this a go, based on what Spacehoppa has experienced:
“When I took 6 drops or less I had no side effects at all except a feeling of wellbeing and some interesting looking stuff in the toilet after a bowl movement.”
RA is in the Gut, and this is important information. Spacehoppa could have been seeing good bacteria as well as bad bacteria in the bowel movement considering the strength of Chlorine dioxide, but this would not be a concern since we know this can be quickly replaced with probiotics.
We have either Candida or L Fermentans in the Gut, or both. Regardless it needs a seriouse approach since they are sugar feeders, and will not be displaced easily. Excessive overgrowth of Candida and the like causes acidosis, and thus taxes the liver over time, and the immune system. We have seen this in recent posts on long standing AP's who get flare up's after many years.
I could go on and on, but to stay on subject, Chlorine dioxide looks promising to me.
Like I said, more reseach is needed.
No one has yet addressed my concern that MMS will destroy other types of cells as well as microbes. I know it's used as a disinfectant for many things- most of which are quite a bit stronger than human cells. There are many compounds and substances that will kill lots of organisms, but can't be used because they are also toxic to the host. It reminds me of using Round Up on your entire garden, sure it will kill the weeds, but your flowers are toast as well. Even with established meds that have been thoroughly researched for safe doses and side effects, people still have bad reactions. MMs has no such research and some general guidelines for what is “probably” a safe dose. Again, this is an oxidizing agent (corrosive), a mis dosage could be very dangerous, especially for someone whose health is already compromised. And what about the cumulative effect? We know that DMSO is quickly metabolised and flushed from the body, but what about MMS- does it hang around? Describing the chemical structure of this gas isn't enough, tell me how it interacts with human cells, electrolytes, abx, etc. Can you imagine what would happen if it could oxidize the cell walls of red or white blood cells?
Comparing it to oxygen in no way allays my concerns as oxygen is also toxic at high levels.
Another problem; no matter what chlorine dioxide is dissloved in it retains the same reactive properties. So if someone doesn't dilute it enough, and begins having serious side effects (like breakdown of blood cells) there is no anecdote, they just have to wait until it leaves their body? Nothing will neutralize it? No, thanks.
Also, chlorine dioxide will permeate even plastic? What's to stop it from permeating my cells then?
My final question is this; Is AP not working well enough that we need to try something this unpredictable? We know that if AP only gets us so far we can turn to MP to get to those last stubborn microbes. Why are we looking at things like MMS if AP is so great? (And I believe that it is) Actually, that leads me to another question, what is the effect of MMS on abx?
I know the spirit in which this information was given, we all want to get well and help others who suffer as we do get well, too. I appreciate the research and willingness to share. There are just too many unanswered questions and seemingly dangerous side effects to this therapy for me.linda
If one buys this MMS to put into lemon juice, vinegar, or other acid, how do you know what you are really getting? I am really new to this, so sorry in advance if I sound like a dumba**, but this isn't something you go buy at the health food store is it? How can you trust buying it online?
DX Rheumatoid Arthritis- 3/2008, Began AP 8/2008-continued various forms of AP through present. It's long and complicated- have a question re: my protocol, just ask 🙂
The antidote to MMS is vitamin C. You mustn't take MMS at the same time as vitamin C (or other antioxidants) as they cancel eachother out and stop the reaction that releases the chlorine dioxide. (In fact, taking the MMS in a glass of orange juice may have enough vitamin C to cancel out the reaction, so that is to be avoided as well.)
So, if you have a bad reaction, such as diarrhea or vomiting, you can take vitamin C to stop the reaction in its tracks. Plus, it only lasts a day or so in the body, so even if you overdose, it's all converted into table salt within a short while. Having said that, you need to be careful not to overdose, as it is strong stuff, and will make you feel very poorly if you take too much at once.
Really, I agree that if you have plenty of time to wait for the antibiotics to kick in then you wouldn't want to go near something so unproven.
But I was trying to 'get myself well' before trying for another baby. I'm concerned about passing my RA on to my children, so I'm prepared to try some pretty far-out things to avoid that. I can understand others not being so keen.
Hi Ruth,
I just wanted you to know that I understand your motivation to try MMS. I was fortunate enough to have my children b4 my PsA got too severe, although I did have a very severe post partum flare that lasted almost 2 yrs after my 3rd child; the first 2 pregnancies were also followed by flares but they were mild. Most women experience this.
I've been trying like heck to get off of prednisone because of the side effects. I've been trying for about 5 yrs, I was successful at first (on Remicade), then relapsed, then found out about AP and tried again. Abdominal pain and a bad AP doctor derailed the AP, so I went back on Remicade combined w/mtx, then had abd pain again from the mtx damaging my liver. This of course, took over 2 months and several hundred dollars of tests to figure out. BELIEVE me, I understand your frustration!
My current plan is to move back to TX and get back with a GOOD AP doctor ASAP. I've had to put my dreams on hold because of these diseases also; I've had to give up on attaining my degree, after starting/stopping school twice in the last 7 yrs because of arthritis. These diseases can rob us of so much in our lives, it causes us to seek out new treatments with the hope that something will finally help. You're exactly right, that's how most of us found out about AP. I hope that you are successful with the MMS and can get off of the meds so you can get pregnant. But please be careful and keep us informed, and it would be best if you let your doctor know. I apologize if I was too strong in my post, the last thing we want is for you to try this but feel alienated and not stay with us for support. I still feel that it is a potentially dangerous therapy, but I respect and understand your decision. I would definitely find out how it affects the fetus if you plan on taking it while you're pregnant, esp since it can permeate and destroy cell walls. Most women go into a remission while pregnant, so hopefully you won't need anything but AP.
I know that the reports on MMS state that it is safe if diluted correctly, but it might be a good idea to research what kinds of side effects could happen from cell damage so that you know what to look for; e.g. if white blood cells were damaged you might get an infection or fever that won't go away, red blood cell damage would cause bruising, fatigue, poor clotting. Other types of cells that could be damaged will come with their own symptoms; liver, kidney, lungs, any system or organ could be affected. (I found out from all the testing I've had in the last few months on my liver that liver damage usually does NOT show up in liver function labs until the liver is severely or permanently damaged- when these rheumies start us on meds that require routine liver function studies, they don't tell us that!, but, Mino is also hard on the liver)
It might've been bacteria you saw in your bowel, but it also could've been a layer of cells that protect the gut from stomach acid that was damaged and sloughed off the intestinal wall. Eventually that could cause erosion and even an ulcer, esp if you're destroying good gut bacteria. Keep an eye out for blood in your stool. It's a good idea to keep a journal. You're in uncharted territory, so just do everything you can to be safe. Good luck with this, and again, keep us informed,
linda
Also, chlorine dioxide oxidises selectively, only choosing organisms that have a low ph. As our bodily cells are not usually overtly acidic, it leaves them alone and focusses on killing anaerobic bacteria (which is usually the undesirable kind) and largely leaves the good bacteria alone. I took a good probiotic along with and had no problems. If anything, I have less wind now than I used to.
As minocin and other antibiotics kill bacteria indiscriminately, whether they are the good or bad kind, the way chlorine dioxide selects only acidic targets doesn't sound too bad to me.
Plus, other drugs, such as methotrexate work by destroying rapidly dividing cells, which includes the cells which make up our immune system – so this idea isn't without precendent. I took mtx for 10 years myself, and whilst I'd rather have been on minocin all that time (I didn't know about AP then), it didn't do me any obvious harm – I guess time will tell on that one!
A lot of these questions are answered far more fully in Jim Humble's book and on his web site. Even if you have no intention of trying it, it still makes an interesting read.
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