HELP ready to give up

[Noraclaypod]

@gordbentley wrote:

Nora, you have me intrigued. do you buy this stuff off the net or can i expect to find it at the supermarket? and if anyone knows if it interacts with AP please inform me and others who may be interested. I think I may try this. heck if it gets me off the ABX I am down like a clown. 😆

Hey Gord,
I actually bought mine off the laundry detergent shelf at Walmart! Very cheap, like two bucks. A box lasts a long time.
I can’t say one way or another if it recombines with AP drugs, because I’ve been off drugs since mid-last year, so proceed with caution if you are taking drugs. I can say that most natural compounds are less likely to interact with drugs than other drugs, and there is some scientific evidence to support this, although it certainly won’t be true in every circumstance, so the rule of caution should stand here.
You could even take a sample of both to a chemist and see if they recombine into a harmful compound, although results might not be conclusive since the human body environment would be different than a petri dish.
You also might post a query in other forums to see if anyone is currently taking both, and if there are protocols.
Borax is no more harmful to the body than table salt, alone. What scares people is the label, and frankly is does seem a bit weird to drink something you’d wash your clothes in that the label says not to ingest, but the problem lies in the legal disclaimers required for non-foods. If enough people get well on it, look for the price to go up and the label to change!

[gordbentley]

oh man, this is tough. I just can’t stomach the thought. I have 20 mule borax already i could try it right now if I wanted too. its just weird. and one of the articles sent to me was written by some seriously over paranoid guy named ted. he was a little over the top and appeared to still be pretty sick. but none the less i am reading a lot of forums with people getting success from it, including yourself. I know you swear by this but its a tough one to get past the voice in my head saying “the box says its harmful Gord!!” Im gunna have to ponder this and possibly consult with my naturopath. but thank you for the advice I am definitley intrigued and open to trying it should I discover that it is not harmful in small amounts.

[Suzy]

That boron may have a role in the prevention or modification of arthritis is supported by research done with arthritis-susceptible rats by the U.S. Department of Agriculture. From this research, USDA scientists hypothesize that boron may modulate the immune system and protect against inflammatory disease.

In trudi’s third link, I found this quote to be interesting, especially since I have been reading so much research lately on immune modulation and enzymes in our bodies that trigger the responses needed for the cells to correctly perform their functions, of which so many are dependant on certain triggers before they can assist the immune modulation process as they were designed to do. This makes me wonder if Boron might be a missing trigger for some ….allowing the cascade of events that causes the immune system to overreact and attack itself …or…..Maybe Boron is a critical item the body needs in order to produce the enzymes necessary to trigger the correct responses instead of the incorrect ones? Not sure if I am stating this right, but in my head it seems plausable…..maybe I am too foggy to verbalize this correctly ??

Question ??? Has anyone ever heard of the research done by the USDA as mentioned above….I am going to look further but wanted to ask around ?

🙂 Suzy

[gordbentley]

sounds plausable Suzy, however this is the first I have ever heard about this being a treatment for arthritis. I am pretty skeptical though I am already fining links of people who made themselves sick from it? possibly they took too much? this appears to be an extremely tailored protocol, but I found a site that says that almonds are very high in boron so I think im going to try grinding them up and putting them in more of my food this way I can maximize the amount I consume daily.

[Suzy]

I would agree with getting it from foods we eat…but it may be hard to supplement enough this way. Here is some more research that might be informative….interesting. Will have to study this and absorb and then research some more.
http://ddr.nal.usda.gov/bitstream/10113/45432/1/IND44450417.pdf

Suzy

[gordbentley]

I am curious about body mass and dosing factors. if only this was promoted and more definitive. Such a grey area

[Trudi]

Hi Suzy–
Good find on this article. I, too, will have to study it.

Here is some information on the content of boron in food–
http://www.greenfacts.org/en/boron/toolboxes/2.htm

Trudi

Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

[gordbentley]

@Suzy wrote:

I would agree with getting it from foods we eat…but it may be hard to supplement enough this way. Here is some more research that might be informative….interesting. Will have to study this and absorb and then research some more.
http://ddr.nal.usda.gov/bitstream/10113/45432/1/IND44450417.pdf

Suzy

awesome article Suzy, printing it off and sending it to Susan my naturopath. this comes directly from the U.S. so it appears to be credible and they use boron in arthritic drugs in india with favourable outcomes. I will most likely start off small at 6mg on my days off the mino. this seems like it could be a really positive combination. I am pain free however this seems like a good preventative measure to keep it that way. thanks for the article Suzy I love it!!!!

However, read the bit about low Vit D and K levels and adverse events with blood coagulation… that would be good to know for anyone taking boron

[Noraclaypod]

Table salt is toxic, if you consume too much, yet you’ll find it everywhere from restaurant tables to processed foods. The key is moderation, like in all other things.
I also read up on Borax before starting the treatment, and found several posts where people reported kidney pain after a few days of drinking the solution. It’s important not to mix it with TAP WATER, because drinking that much poluted tap water may have been the cause of their kidney pain. Municipal water is notorious for having prescription medications, the harmful kind of flouride, (which is deliberately added as a cavity preventer) parasites, heavy metals and a list of contaminates too long to list in this forum.
Like you, I was cautious and skeptical, waiting after the first dose for my head to fall off or a third leg to form. But nothing bad happened from drinking it. I had kidney problems all my adult life, and in fact had been hospitalized for a kidney infection once, but I followed the instructions to the letter, including using the smallest dose known to be effective with marvelous results.

Unlike you, I had horrible reactions to antibiotics, pain killers and even prescription strength creams. My body was so full of drug residue from prescription medication that it was a toxic dump–something that researchers agree provides the perfect breeding ground for the bacterium that is known to cause Scleroderma and RA.

I truly would have been dead by now, if not for the benefits of Borax, because I was so sick when I started I couldn’t get off the bed without my husband’s help. My legs did not bend at the knee or the ankle, I fell several times because I had no sense of balance when I did struggle to my feet, and I couldn’t even open my mouth anymore.
Joe was adamant that I try it, and he bought the water and other items from the store, mixed it and brought it to me in bed for the first two weeks. At that point I was still covered in sores from the allergic reaction to Minocin.
By the third week I was no longer scratching and could get up if I put an ottoman next to the bed, so he bought me a cane. By the fourth week, I could take care of myself and my knees bent enough that I could put my own socks on, and his shoes. I was absolutely amazed.
Everyone has to decide what’s right for them. This was right for me, and I am grateful to be alive to share this with someone else who might benefit from my incredible recovery. Never give up, and never believe everything you hear. Decide for yourself.

[Krys]

@Trudi wrote:

I did a lot of research on this over the past week. Here are some sites that have a lot of information:
http://members.upnaway.com/~poliowa/Away%20with%20Arthritis.html
Trudi

Great links!
My joint problems started in Oct. 2009. I researched borax back then and found it interesting, but did not try this protocol. In July 2009 I did a computerized assessment (acupuncture points) for allergies, bugs, state of the organs and mineral / vitamin deficiencies. It showed BORON deficiency!!! I have not done anything about it as yet.
Gord, you mention almonds as a possible good source of boron. I eat almonds a lot, but maybe they don’t contain enough boron for its anti-inflammatory function, because my fingers always swell up afterwards? I react with swelling to gluten, starch, dies, and almonds supposedly do not contain any of those. So whatever causes swelling, the boron content does not mitigate it (in the amount present in almonds).
It is all certainly worth further investigation. I’m just a bit overwhelmed at a huge amount of promising and helpful supplements / procedures / protocols. I love reading about them, but how many can you incorporate at the same time? If you decide to try it, please share, I’ll be looking forward to your posts!
Warm wishes, Krys

[lynnie_sydney]

Krys – I cant see boron as a nutritional ingredient in almonds. It’s interesting that you find your fingers swell after eating as they are indicated as moderately anti-inflammatory. This site gives a full list of the nutrients. Perhaps it is one of these nutrients that doesnt agree with you? Your reaction doesnt appear to be a normal allergic reaction – second link gives some info on allergic reactions to almonds. Lynnie
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/nut-and-seed-products/3085/2
http://www.food-info.net/uk/intol/almond.htm

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[Trudi]

@Krys wrote:

I’m just a bit overwhelmed at a huge amount of promising and helpful supplements / procedures / protocols. I love reading about them, but how many can you incorporate at the same time?

Frustrating, isn’t it!!

If I read this website right, http://www.greenfacts.org/en/boron/toolboxes/2.htm, you’d have to eat about 3#’s to get to your upper limit. I used to have a burning in my hands after eating almonds. Thankfully, not anymore. In fact, when I eat them at night before bed, I feel better in the a.m.

Sounds like you would be a good candidate for boron supplements. I came across this product yesterday–http://www.wellnessresources.com/health/articles/calcium_fructoborate_a_novel_nutrient_for_bones_joints/. If you decide to supplement, let us know how it goes. I am very anxious to try the borax in water. As everyone else, I have to get up the courage 🙂 . The article that Suzi posted yesterday and Gord’s pointing out the paragraph on blood coagulation did give me pause. I’m on the lower end of both Vit D and Vit K.

Take care,
Trudi

Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

[Noraclaypod]

I had also read that article on blood coagulation properties. My doctor had given me information about the changes in blood structure caused by systemic Scleroderma, because I wanted to know about my disease. This was a clinical paper, very difficult for a lay person to follow, so I asked for a synopsis. What he told me is that blood cells, which are normally disc shaped and very compressable (so that they can travel through small veins) become stiffened and rounded when someone has Scleroderma, making it harder for them to travel, thereby increasing blood pressure dramatically. In advanced stages it causes a condition known as Arterial Pulmonary Hypertention (remember me telling you he insisted on a pulmonary workup?) which is life-threatening.
(The reason he refused to treat me any further was because I was unable to get this workup, and I was allergic to Minocin. He considered my disease to be out of his area of specialty–dermatology–and told me to go to an RA.)
So:
Thinning of the blood and the return to normal shape of individual blood cells can be looked at as a positive side effect, not a negative one. If you’ve ever looked at your blood after a draw, you may have been suprised to see how thick and sticky it looked in the vial. Now you know why. Several diseases can cause this.
If you’re scheduled for surgery or already a hemophiliac, I’d stick to another regimine. If however you have elevated blood pressure (which most of us seem to) using the Borax mixture may benefit that too, like it did mine. My blood pressure in now in the normal range. I work on cars and injure my hands sometimes, and now minor cuts and abrasions heal rapidly, whereas in the past a sore might take six months or more to heal. Cirulation is necessary for rapid healing, among all the other funcions.
You don’t need to be afraid of Borax. Me and my second head, both say so. 😀

[Trudi]

@Noraclaypod wrote:

So:
Thinning of the blood and the return to normal shape of individual blood cells can be looked at as a positive side effect, not a negative one. If you’ve ever looked at your blood after a draw, you may have been suprised to see how thick and sticky it looked in the vial. Now you know why. Several diseases can cause this.

You don’t need to be afraid of Borax. Me and my second head, both say so. 😀

Hi Nora–
Thanks for the explanation and input.
This blood thing does have me a bit confused. The last time my fibrinogen was checked (almost 2 years ago) it was elevated at 617 where the reference range was 175-425. It had increased from an initial reading of 500, even though I was taking Vascuzyme and nattokinase (my LLMD said it was a sign of inflammation). However, my blood flows quite readily and the phlebotomist says I don’t have thick blood. I just recently had a blood draw (wish I had asked for a fibrinogen reading) and quite frankly I was a bit disturbed when the entire gauze they put on afterward became saturated with blood. In the past there might have been a pin-prick of blood. Everyone I talk to about this say it is unusual, but not to worry. BTW, I stopped taking the Vascuzyme and the nattokinase almost a year ago.
Anyway, just something more to think about before I take the plunge.
Trudi

Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

[pattyrod]

Keep us posted Gord!! I also purchased a box and feel the same way you do. I’m so intrigued.

Noraclaypod – I also cannot take minocin. I had a severe reaction (I believe it was drug induced lupus). I was in complete remission before the reaction. I want remission back!! You give me hope!

Best,
Patty

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