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Lynne, I have heard that about the saliva too and my saliva has always been dark, dark green. Too alkaline, yet my urine has always been yellow with rare exceptions. I remember asking my first AP doctor which was correct and he said urine.
But I like the saliva theory since I have truly eaten very vegetarian, even vegan initially (which helped my inflammation). Additionally, I have supplemented lots of chlorella, chloraphyll.
I am now on day 4 of eating a meat with every meal and avoiding the veggies and grains not on my allowed list. I am still eating veggies with every meal, just the certain ones allowed. So far, my ravenous appetite has settled way down. My energy boosted a lot the first day and now seems normal. My waist feels down and it feels like the muscles are drawing it in. I measured the waist initially but will not measure again until 1 week has gone by, but I think it is going down. For sure, the bloat has stopped.
I will be stunned if this diet works. BTW, it is very annoying to have meat stuck in my teeth. I am flossing after every meal.
I would love to know more about your blood pressure lowering techniques. I never had blood pressure problems until I became sick. Vit C knocks it down for me every time, but suddenly I am nervous about supplementing C. After 4 yrs of high doses, I feel I should give it a break.
Susan
Here is something interesting I found out today from John Hopkins.
Wow AP. That is the second time now that JH has come out with great new science.
They recently posted an article here from JH recognizing bacterial infections (L-form) at the root of auto-immune disorders.
Also, when I first became sick 4 yrs ago and hit the 'net, About.com pooh-poohed the AP approach to RA treatment. Now I see they actually support it and even state they can't understand why rheumatologists don't utilize it in their practices.
http://arthritis.about.com/cs/antibiotic/a/antibiotictreat.htm
Gotta love the way the Arthritis Foundation was “unimpressed” with the research even though it was deemed safe and effective and he felt more studies of doses and long term use were needed. Too bad he doesn't feel that way about dangerous biologics.
And that is why I do not support disease research foundations. They are front stores for pharmacutical companies to collect more monies to use however they wish.
Vitamin D supplementation at 5000 IU daily gave an impressive leap in my recovery and it caused my herboden's nodules to dissolve and disappear. Something my rheumatologist said “never happens in the field of rheumatology”!
John Hopkins gives me hope that the world is catching on.
Susan
Hi Sue;
You must be taking a heck of a lot of chlorella to make the urine green hehehe.I am a veggie maniac also but eat meat once a day and have to floss a lot.The only thing worse for cruddy teeth are mangoes.The fibers between the teeth feel like I have been eating fabric and they are so hard to get out even with floss.
I am not sure if I can explain the way I lower my BP.It is something that gets ingrained in you after years of dancing.I know for sure that I don't breathe through my diaphram as dancers are always pulling the muscles in and up…if that makes sense to you.When doing that one can only breathe by the top of the lungs.To see what a mean try standing on your toes and pull every muscle tight from the feet up.Try to make your tummy button touch your spine and you will see how it is impossible to breathe deeply or you will lose your balance.Then comes the mind part,you will yourself into relaxing despite moving like mad and I seem to take fewer breaths and slow the pulse down.Have you ever seen how divers that stay under water a long time will take in a lot of air and literally gulp it before going in the water.I used to do that while standing in the wings before going on.This saturates the blood with oxygen and can last a few minutes.Relaxing while exerting is the key but takes time to develop the knack
As to vit. D ,I do not take any.All you need is to look at bright light for 15 minutes a day to get enough and I am in the greenhouse all day.I figure that is why my D1,25 is always wayyyyyyy too high ad it is metabolised from D3Wow Lynne. That sounds very complicated. I am an avid horse rider and just love the outdoors. When not riding I lived at Smith Mtn Lake water skiing. Yet, all my life I was slow to tan, slow to burn and have never actually experienced a real sunburn. (which is fine with me). My skin was sallow like any good anglo-saxen girl would be. I used to joke and say I had built in SFP. I NEVER have used sunscreen.
Weeeelllll, once we discovered my very low Vit D levels and I began 5000 IU daily, I immediately tanned. Deep tan (for me). It happened so quickly everyone kept asking if I had been to a tanning salon.
Now I have a ruddy complexion which looks really good. I skip makeup most days.
Susan
Sue;
What is your level of D1,25.I just can't get mine down if I am getting D3 so I just try to avoid the light as much as possible but working where I do it is almost impossible so I just ignore it.I know the two should be in a ratio of 1.1 or 1.2 Mine seems to stay staedy around 2.9 which I know is bad.How do you manage to get a good ratio other than by avoiding light or supplements????I need some serious help hereI had an extreme Vit D problem expecially with the sun and would be in agony for 48 hrs if I was out in it so I understood there had to be something in the deficiency theory. However I have found just like a lot of other things that it is a gradual thing and that I have been able to increase gradually to get over the problem. Not completely over it but certainly much improved and able to eat a certain amount of D now that I could not before, also trying to increase the sun tolerance the same way.
Lynne,
I seem to have so little computer time these days which is definitely a good sign of my healing. As soon as I have more than 5 mins, I will check my last D test. Also, on 1/4/10, they drew blood and D is one of the tests requested. So I will also have up-to-date info for you soon.
Rosemary, I hear you. Vit D is attacking something in you and while that is good news, you really do have to proceed slowly. So much is that way with me too. While Vit D did not give me that reaction, it did give my mother (who has no specific illness) some trouble. Everytime she would start taking just 1000 IU daily, her eyes would get crusty and her ears would hurt. I had a hard time convincing her that was a sign it was chasing something.
Mom is 83. She used to get several bad colds every winter. Very frightening at her age. She goes to my doctor with me and on one of those occasions, she had the bad chest rattling cough. My doctor voiced concern. Mom brushed it off.
Two months later, we did the GenomeDetox gene test and discovered I am completely missing one gene needed for detox. My doctor looked sternly at my Mom and said “That means you don't have the gene either and you had that bad cough. You need to take 600mg of NAC daily for the rest of your life.” Mom was so shocked and she laughed (to others, not the dr) that I was the patient but she got treated too.
That was in 2007. She did start NAC and she has never had a cold as severe as the ones she got before NAC. In fact, I can never tell that she has a cold at all, but she says sometimes she starts a cold and she increases her NAC to 2 a day until symptoms disappear. 😉
I finally convinced Mom to take 1000 IU of Vit D every other day until the eye and ear symptoms disappear then increase to every day. So she does and the symptoms are long gone but she still only takes it every other day. I am grateful for that much.
Susan
[user=134]Rosemary Perth Aust.[/user] wrote:
I had an extreme Vit D problem expecially with the sun and would be in agony for 48 hrs if I was out in it so I understood there had to be something in the deficiency theory. However I have found just like a lot of other things that it is a gradual thing and that I have been able to increase gradually to get over the problem. Not completely over it but certainly much improved and able to eat a certain amount of D now that I could not before, also trying to increase the sun tolerance the same way.
Rosemary, All,
I, too, have been trying for several years now to make sense out of the conflicting views on the “need for” and the “hazards of” high supplementation of calcium, vitamin D, magnesium. (I, myself, have become convinced that when our magnesium deficiency is studied and addressed and reversed, higher doses of calcium and vitamin d seem often not to be needed, and many of the problems for which we might begin taking calcium and vitamin d reverse themselves, slowly but surely in my own case — with nuclear body scan showing improvement since spring of 2007. We are all different, I realize, but still the information in Mildred Seelig's online research is something we need to know about, because with chronic illness especially, we seem to be very mag deficient, and it is required by about 300 functions in our body. Am pasting an e-mail I sent myself in 2009.
Original Message
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 11:05 PM
Subject: Magnesium Deficiency & Vitamin Dhttp://www.mgwater.com/Seelig/Magnesium-Deficiency-in-the-Pathogenesis-of-Disease/chapter14.shtml
Open the above, then to read some profound findings about Vitamin D, go down to paragraphs:
14.3 and 14.4.
At this point, it is suggested that you click on “Edit” at top of screen, and then click “Find” and type in “Vitamin D”, and then you can read instances of D found and discussions of it. This is profound information about Vitamin D.
[added for RBF BB post: Excerpt from above references discusses dangers of high supplementation with calcium and vitamin D, without magnesium deficiency also being addressed. There is much more on this subject than in the excerpt below … can easily be found by doing the search using Edit & Find, along with using the word “jacket” in front of your key words… the excerpt below (the system may not print it IF the material is programed not to print it; in which case you can go to the above link and do a search as described:]14.3. Calcemic Therapy for Osteopenias
The use of high-dosage vitamin D or its derivatives in the treatment of refractory osteopenias might similarly result in cardiovascular and renal damage, other soft tissue calcinosis, and osteosclerosis, rather than normal bone, which requires optimal magnesium for normal osteocyte activity and matrix formation. Little has yet been done to correlate the osteopenia or brittle chalky bones produced by either experimental magnesium deficiency or by vitamin D excess, the degree depending on the amount of calcium and phosphate in the diet. As regards the use of high-dosage calcemic agents for postmenopausal osteoporosis, reference should be made to the estrogen/parathyroid/magnesium interrelationships that suggest that magnesium's effect on osteocytes and matrix formation might find applicability in preventing further loss, if not serving to increase formation of organic matrix.
Inadvertent proof was provided that hypervitaminosis D produces metastatic calcification when very high doses of vitamin D were used to treat arthritis, even when the intake of calcium was not high (Danowski et al., 1945; Mulligan, 1947; Frost et al., 1947; Howard and Meyer, 1948; Reed, 1950; Christensen et al., 1951; Verner et al., 1958). In such instances, the calcium, phosphate, and matrix were drawn from the skeleton and deposited in soft tissues. In one of the studies (Frost et al., 1947) magnesium was studied and found to be low during the vitamin-D-toxic period and to rise when the overdosage was stopped. The evidence that some arthritic processes might be consequences of magnesium depletion suggests that seeking and correcting magnesium deficiency might be useful.
It is advisable to explore the magnesium status of patients with osteopenias before loading them with calcemic agents, which might prove useless in some or unduly toxic in others if magnesium deficiency is present. If hypercalcemia has already been induced by high doses of such agents as vitamin D or its congeners or metabolites, or by parenteral loads of calcium, the magnesium serum level and 24- hour urinary output should be determined. A parenteral magnesium load may be inadvisable until the hypercalcemia is corrected, and not by phosphate loading.
14.4. Treatment for Hypercalcemia
Because hypercalcemic crises are life-threatening, emergency treatment is directed toward lowering the circulating calcium levels quickly, by hydration with saline or dextrose in water, and increasing its urinary excretion with a potent diuretic such as furosemide, by administration of phosphate to increase its precipitation, hopefully in the bones, and by agents such as calcitonin to shift the calcium to bone, or mithramycin to antagonize bone resorption (Newmark and Himathongkam, 1974). Corticosteroids, which act more slowly, are recommended in long-term control of chronic hypercalcemia. Unfortunately, saline and furosemide diuresis, phosphate loads, and corticosteroids all increase magnesium loss, which is also caused by the hypercalcemia as well as frequently by the diseases that caused the hypercalcemia in the first place. Furthermore, inorganic phosphates have resulted in ectopic, sometimes fatal calcification (infra vide).
AF
[user=1212]APbeliever[/user] wrote:
Here is something interesting I found out today from John Hopkins.
APbeliever,
Skimming over the link above, and the discussion of calcium and vitamin D, I saw no mention of their interaction with magnesium, which is very necessary for body functions. I tried to do an “Edit” and “Find” search of the page, but it was in a format that would not let me do this.
If any of you are swayed by this information, you are encouraged to get “the rest (or more) of the story” and read in other research about what happens when large supplementation of calcium and of Vitamin D are given, and the one receiving this treatment is already in pain (most surely with an acidic pH and in pain and a need for magnesium for the already 300+ functions it is needed for. I've also read that when large calcium supplementation is given, and patient is deficicent in magnesium, (which makes patient even MORE deficient in magnesium) calcification can be left in places in the body where it is not supposed to remain — because magnesium (when available) works with calcium to make sure this does not happen.
Thanks for sharing this link, APbeliever. Such as this definitely needs to be read, understood, debated, and more scientific information found about it.
AF
AF, you are right about the Magnesium part. I always take a Magnesium 250 mgs tablet before I take a 1000 IU of Vitamin D. After researching a lot of good articles from Dr Marshall, I am not convinced about totally avoiding Vitamin D-3. The need is to take Magnesium along with Vitamin D-3 plus a little calcium (your body has enough calcium if most of you check your blood levels). Magnesium will not let you calcify your organs or cause kidney stones. Therefore, doctors advise people who have a tendency to produce kidney stones to use Magnesium tablets or magnesium citrate etc etc. Sunshine vitamin D-3 is very important for your overall health.
http://www.mothernature.com/Library/Bookshelf/Books/10/76.cfm
http://www.urologychannel.com/kidneystones/alternativetreatments.shtml
There is (IMO) some really good info on Vitamin D to be found in the website Immune System Health: http://www.easy-immune-health.com/index.html. Also good, approachable pieces about some of the other topics that are often discussed here: they include magnesium deficiency, gluten intolerance and Leaky Gut. Really worth a look around the site. Lynnie
Be well! Lynnie
Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)Hi AP Believer;
I hear that DR.Marshall is now running double blind studies.I guess we will know in a couple of years if we are screwing things up by taking our D
LynneYes AF I had the magnesium & iron dificiency also, originally, most patients do, particularly with Lyme. I had to increase that very slowly also to the required level, which in each of us would be different.
I use the calcium with the magnesium and boron included and flax seed capsule. Just cannot believe we have to find out all this ourselves.
Also recently had some info that it was minerals we needed not calcium. All the info out there is very confusing.
[user=134]Rosemary Perth Aust.[/user] wrote:
Just cannot believe we have to find out all this ourselves.
Amen to that!
Thank God for this website and arthritistrust.org website which gave me hope when the doctor tried to take my hope away.
Thank God for leading me to doctors who believe the body can heal!
Susan
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