Things continue to evolve

[Maz]

@cavalier wrote:

Maz, the Flagyl seems to be helping after the 2nd day & it’s continuing I am keeping this up for 2 wk’s & will discuss with Dr C. when I see him am supplementing B Vit’s due to the Flagyl. Been the 1st time in almost 2 months well actually since Oct since I have had normalcy.
Funny how the right combinations sometimes make the difference. 😉

Jill, I almost missed this post, but glad to have found it, especially hearing this news – did I read that right, you’re experiencing normalcy???!!!! If so, perhaps not so surprising!!! Fllagyl, similar to clindamycin, has anti-protozoal effects, so would work similarly in this respect. It may make a nice substitute for the clindamycin if you can’t get the IVs arranged. Be careful of candida, though! Flagyl and Tinidazole have some effect on biofilm busting and candida that is holed up in those pesky biofilms tends to become overt. It’s why I’m also on nystatin with my tinidazole (both of which provided me with a good old herx…agh!).

I was digging around in the Arthritis Trust article archives…read them ages ago, but went back for a refresher. There’s some good info on flagyl and tinidazole there as part of treatment protocols and, if you haven’t read them lately, then you might also enjoy a refresher.

http://www.arthritistrust.org/menu_list/articlesimportant.html

[cavalier]

Maz – The Flagyl does indeed unleash ALOT of yeast for me I see this expressed already – this is what happened to me back in July & Aug. when I used Flagyl I was only 2 wk’s in & I had to stop using it. Then I got the Gi issues starting in Oct. This time after only 2 days the yeast is already evident!

So now I am finding the same thing tons of yeast already – despite taking a probiotic of 2 billion Lactobacillus. I hate to go off the Flagyl as it is effective for my stomach & I sure needed that as it was really bad, but I think I will need nystatin but getting back to Dr C. for a apptmt means a delay in getting this! I wonder if there is anything else but not sure what that is. Getting the yeast associated headaches too!
Will check with my other GP who I can get into sooner – vaginal yeast is well at least commonly seen will explain to my NP what is going on & why I took the Flagyl anyone should understand that months of GI upset that I was desperate & having had obstructions, even if pseudo.

Good news is I am finally getting the Clindy IV’s shipped to Dr C.’s office, but I still need good AP coverage the rest of the month. I read the great info on the link you sent had no idea how well Flagyl can help SD, I only knew it for Lyme cyst busting & for general GI issues, but it needs to be taken daily longer term for Lyme, as opposed to being only pulsed for SD. The links also confirmed on there that EDTA chelation was important for helping SD, but also mentions how Lyme often has SD expressed as a subset, this was the 1st time I had seen MD’s actually reporting this in writing, so was nice to see.

THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN! 🙂

Jill SD, Lyme & CPn

[cavalier]

Maz I did a search today for Clindamyacin I cant find any references to this being antiprotozoal only antibacteria. I am a bit confused. Would you elaborate a bit please as to what you saw that said Clindy is a antiprotozoal?

I am going to ask about the Tinidazole when I see Dr C., instead of Flagyl. I was reading the links under this main link last nite in regard to Lyme – http://www.arthritistrust.org/menu_list … rtant.html the doc said he recommends the same high amt’s of Tinidazole for Lyme as he does for Flagyl depending on someone’s weight it would be from 1,200 total a day to 1,500 mg’s & it said to do this EVERY day for Lyme – pulsed was being done 3 days a week if you had only a Rheumatic disease & didn’t have Lyme – may I ask you as I don’t want to take daily if it’s not needed or a higher dosage than necessary the idea behind your doc’s dosage on the Tinidazole? I’m concerned with yeast staying on the Flagyl too long & I would think the T. would be a little better tolerated, although certainly flagyl is causing a herx for sure.

Mucho thanks !
Jill SD, Lyme & CPn

[Maz]

@cavalier wrote:

Maz I did a search today for Clindamyacin I cant find any references to this being antiprotozoal only antibacteria. I am a bit confused. Would you elaborate a bit please as to what you saw that said Clindy is a antiprotozoal?

I am going to ask about the Tinidazole when I see Dr C., instead of Flagyl. I was reading the links under this main link last nite in regard to Lyme – http://www.arthritistrust.org/menu_list … rtant.html the doc said he recommends the same high amt’s of Tinidazole for Lyme as he does for Flagyl depending on someone’s weight it would be from 1,200 total a day to 1,500 mg’s & it said to do this EVERY day for Lyme – pulsed was being done 3 days a week if you had only a Rheumatic disease & didn’t have Lyme – may I ask you as I don’t want to take daily if it’s not needed or a higher dosage than necessary the idea behind your doc’s dosage on the Tinidazole? I’m concerned with yeast staying on the Flagyl too long & I would think the T. would be a little better tolerated, although certainly flagyl is causing a herx for sure.

Hi Jill,

You’ll find info on the anti-protozoan effects of clindamycin at the following links, but it’s pretty widely known for use in treatment of malaria, babesiosis and toxoplasmosis and you should find quite a bit of literature online when using key words, like, “clindamycin and babesiosis” or “clindamycin and toxoplasmosis”:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clindamycin

Parasitic

“Malaria

Given with chloroquine or quinine, clindamycin is effective and well tolerated in treating Plasmodium falciparum malaria; the latter combination is particularly useful for children, and is the treatment of choice for pregnant women who become infected in areas where resistance to chloroquine is common.[23][24] Clindamycin should not be used as an antimalarial by itself, although it appears to be very effective as such, because of its slow action.[23][24] Patient-derived isolates of Plasmodium falciparum from the Peruvian Amazon have been reported to be resistant to clindamycin as evidenced by in vitro drug susceptibility testing.[25]

Other

The combination of clindamycin and quinine is the standard treatment for severe babesiosis.[26]
Clindamycin may also be used to treat toxoplasmosis,[13][27][28] and, in combination with primaquine, is effective in treating mild to moderate Pneumocystis jirovecii pneumonia.[29]”

From Dr. J’s website for clindamycin use in Lyme and Babs in shorter courses:

http://www.jemsekspecialty.com/lyme_detail.php?sid=12

“The use of IV clindamycin has now become routine in our treatment protocol for advanced neuroborreliosis. This change came about after we began using oral clindamycin (with mepron) empirically for suspected cases of babesiosis coinfection in our most recalcitrant, unresponsive patients. We immediately noted some new and positive developments, e.g. absence of fever and night sweats for the first time in months/years, increased mental acuity, and so forth. Other patients had Herxheimer reactions that they had not experienced for weeks on prior therapy, even though we were treating aggressively with both intravenous and oral antibiotics. Since our most debilitated patients were already on IV therapy, we decided to try short courses of IV clindamycin and the effect has been consistently impressive, even more so than with the oral formulation. We have now gone back and retreated those patients who have had an incomplete response to prolonged IV therapy, and in 11/12 of these cases, improvement on IV Clindamycin has been dramatic. We are currently in the process of evaluating the optimal use of clindamycin, as we continually do with all of the therapies we employ. Our hope is that these more intensive therapeutic programs still provided in such a way that they are tolerated, will allow us to shorten the IV program by hastening the time to clinical improvement.”

This sort of validates Dr. Brown’s findings, although one has to ask…what was Brown treating really with clindamycin? The following info seems to indicate that clindamycin is effective in a test-tube against mycoplasma, but not necessarily so in-vivo, so not even suggested as a first-line treatment for mycoplasma!

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/223609-medication

“Clindamycin is effective in vitro, but limited reports suggest it may not be active in vivo and thus is not considered a first-line treatment.”

As I was reading the Arthritis Trust articles again the other day, I noted the same as you re: dosing of Tinidazole and Flagyl. These anti-protozoals can pack quite a punch in terms of herxing in some folks and LLMDs are now taking a much more conservative approach to treatment with these, usually dosing for 3 consecutive days in smaller doses than the Arthritis Trust recommendations. In my case (which may be different from yours as I have RA and hypersensitivity issues), my doses are 250mg BID of tinidazole for 3 days a week. I am still working up to this dose, as my first dose packed some punch (chills, fever, sweats, malaise, etc). It passed fairly quickly, but it was soon apparent that I’d be doing myself no favors if I went straight to the full dose and my LLMD agreed and said to work up slowly. I’ve now done several weeks at only 250mg a day for 3 days of the week and plan to increase next week for one day, then two days, then up to full dose the third week…pending how I feel during the increases.

I believe Dr. S. in GA/TN, also uses a pulsed method for flagyl with his rheumatic patients and it seems that there is slowly becoming less of a divide between LLMDs and AP docs in this sort of respect, recognizing that we need to kill bugs, not patients and that some quality of life is needed as we target those blighters. So, from my personal perspective, I’m sort of viewing the Arthritis Trust protocols as “historical” in the sense that these types of protocols will evolve over time as experiential evidence emerges, but…as always…there is no cookie-cutter protocol to be used in every case. While one person may tolerate and do better on higher daily dosing, others may not be able to tolerate this and need to go much slower. Maybe the rule of thumb should be….to start out “low and slow” and to work up to individual tolerance, much as RA patients need to do when there is a lot of inflam to avoid uncontrolled herxing and resulting hypersensitivity issues? Just ruminating here really, Jill, but I know you will understand all this as you’ve been around the block a few times yourself. 😉

may I ask you as I don’t want to take daily if it’s not needed or a higher dosage than necessary the idea behind your doc’s dosage on the Tinidazole?

Jill, if you check out this link from the Arthritis Trust articles (3rd page, 3rd paragraph), it explains that daily dosing isn’t required, as blood serum levels remain high after the weekly 2 or 3 day loading doses (I can attest to the fact that clear-cut herxing continues for some days after the weekly pulses):

http://www.arthritistrust.org/Articles/2-Case%20Histories.pdf

“His experiments proved that Flagyl

[Krys]

@cavalier wrote:

So now I am finding the same thing tons of yeast already – despite taking a probiotic of 2 billion Lactobacillus. I hate to go off the Flagyl as it is effective for my stomach & I sure needed that as it was really bad, but I think I will need nystatin but getting back to Dr C. for a apptmt means a delay in getting this! I wonder if there is anything else but not sure what that is. Getting the yeast associated headaches too!

Jill,
2 billion is a very small amount. 🙁
Dr. B in his treatment guidelines specifies 200 billion.
Since I got yeast just 1 month into AP (I was taking 55 billion daily + additional 60 billion every other day + 2 cups of plain yogurt), I am taking about 4 x 200 billion (Dr. Ohhirra’s probiotics contain 500 billion and the Professional formula that I take, which is fermented 5 years instead of 3, contain somewhat less within the same amount but more resilient probiotic bacteria). I still have yeast, as evident on tiny spots on my feet. Once I added about 1 lb of sauerkraut ( I only add olive oil to it), those small spots are disappearing and they stopped being itchy. So I think I am actually conquering yeast while still on abx, and without Diflucan or Nystatin.
I’ve recently started fermenting Kombucha and am about to start water kefir grains. I’m scared of all the autoimmune reactions I was having when Candida was rampant so I’m probably exaggerating the amounts of probiotics I am taking, but it does work!
Keeping fingers crossed you conquer the beast (and all the other nasties) fast,
Krys

[cavalier]

Maz – Am still confused a bit on the Clindy in regard to specifically amoeba’s that type of Protozoa, which the ‘Zole classes of ABX like Flagyl etc work on so well, this is what i was not finding that Clindy works on. I am still going to do the Clindy IV’s as I am wanting to see if I respond again as it’s quite possible & Dr C. suspects I have Babesia so it would be effective for that purpose. I just like to understand which is working on what so I know how to cover my bases. I am still learning & letting my body tell me what works – no doubt Flagyl is hitting something I am assuming this amoeba thing or the Lyme cysts – much more so than Plaquenil has been for me & for some reason Zith just doesn’t seem to be doing much for me – more so from Flagyl & Mino & I am hoping as in the past the Clindy will be helpful too it should be here finally next Tues! Talk about a long time in coming!

I had wondered on the Flagyl etc in that class, if it wouldn’t stay in the system longer than just 24 hr’s so yes that makes perfect sense thank you Maz! I just now can appreciate why I have struggled with yeast so much taking the Flagyl as Dr S. the one who gave me the HBOT sessions last summer, is the one who prescribed the Flagyl as he treats Lyme – his directions were 1,000 mg’s of Flagyl daily for 30 days straight – I got bad build up of yeast 2 wk’s into that protocol & I had to stop, but i now feel I have a better understanding of why I got the yeast – as it meant the cysts were getting busted open just heavily along with possibly the probiotic not being able to keep up & the yogurt etc.
The older info on that link you sent also mirrored his idea daily for Lyme & in a tad higher dosages yet & I was thinking boy I dunno if my body could tolerate that! 😉 So this is why I asked as i could feel I needed to back this dosage down already from daily, if I am going to make it thru that.

Krys – thank you! Funny my doc felt that was plenty in addition I eat yogurt & I drink Kefir, both plain.

I will look at these links you kindly gave Maz, thank you both for your time! 😛 You answered all of my ?’s very well except the Amobea correlation is what I dont see as being linked to Clindy but again I am hoping to get after the Babesia – & the more layers of the onion I can peel away the better I can respond finally in getting where I need to be. Sometimes it still boogles my mind 😉

Jill SD, Lyme & CPn

[Maz]

@cavalier wrote:

Maz – Am still confused a bit on the Clindy in regard to specifically amoeba’s that type of Protozoa, which the ‘Zole classes of ABX like Flagyl etc work on so well, this is what i was not finding that Clindy works on. I am still going to do the Clindy IV’s as I am wanting to see if I respond again as it’s quite possible & Dr C. suspects I have Babesia so it would be effective for that purpose. I just like to understand which is working on what so I know how to cover my bases. I am still learning & letting my body tell me what works – no doubt Flagyl is hitting something I am assuming this amoeba thing or the Lyme cysts – much more so than Plaquenil has been for me & for some reason Zith just doesn’t seem to be doing much for me – more so from Flagyl & Mino & I am hoping as in the past the Clindy will be helpful too it should be here finally next Tues! Talk about a long time in coming!

You answered all of my ?’s very well except the Amobea correlation is what I dont see as being linked to Clindy but again I am hoping to get after the Babesia – & the more layers of the onion I can peel away the better I can respond finally in getting where I need to be. Sometimes it still boogles my mind 😉

Jill, as far as I know (and my knowledge is limited at best), amoebae are a genus of protozoa and require different treatment with flagyl or another azole-type drug and this is likely due to their actions. The following link gives a good explanation of the differences in action between clindamycin and azole drugs and the answer may lie in the actions of the different abx – clindamycin and flagyl (aka metronidazole)? This is something you could check with Dr. C.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-difference-between-metronidazole-and-clindamycin.htm

“Metronidazole and clindamycin are both antibiotics but have differences in their method of action, their side effects and in the types of infection they normally treat. Although both are antibiotics, metronidazole is effective for infections caused by anaerobic bacteria and various parasitic protozoans. Clindamycin is effective for both aerobic and anaerobic bacterial infections and the protozoan that causes malaria. Metronidazole interferes with certain cellular functions, causing the death of the bacteria or parasites. Clindamycin does not kill the bacteria, rather it stops them from reproducing.“

And:

“Clindamycin is prescribed for severe bacterial infections. This antibiotic treats infections of the skin, blood, internal organs and other infections. Clindamycin is also used for dental infections or to prevent infections of the heart in certain patients undergoing dental procedures. Metronidazole fights anaerobic bacterial infections in the lungs, intestines, joints and digestive organs. In addition, it is used to treat diseases caused by protozoans such as amoeba and Giardia.”

In most cases, it’s likely more about therapeutic probing, which LLMDs are good at doing….trialing different classes of abx to see what works best for each person, as very often a person is coinfected and it’s just not practical to test for every bug under the sun and, even if testing is run, to rule out bugs that may not be picked up by tests. E.g. if a test is run for babesia microti and it’s negative, one still can’t rule out another strain of babesiosis, such as WA1. There are so many strains of these devils that it would be crazy to think we could rule out everything or that a clever pleomorphic or intracellular bug can even be picked up in one small blood sample. On top of all this, there is the causation/correlation rationale…just because a person may have something in their pathogen load, it doesn’t mean it’s caused the disease…and vice-versa.

What is just so fascinating to me is that many of these microbial-cause researchers have all zeroed in on what they believe is the cause – Brown (and, later, Nicholson) thought it was primarily a mycoplasma (of which there are many strains), Wheldon/Stratton/Sriram believe it’s a chlamydia, Ebringer believes it’s proteus mirabilis (a gram neg bacterium) or k. pneumoniae (depending on rheumatic presentation), Dr. F in AZ believes it’s a protozoan (protomyxzoa rheumatica), and Wyburn-Mason/Blount believed it was an amoeba (a genus of protozoa)…LLMDs, of course, believe it’s a mix of bugs, calling it MSIDs (mixed chronic infectious diseases syndrome) and that protozoans are likely also in this mix, like babesiosis and toxoplasmosis. Newer research is now pointing to a number of oral pathogens as a cause. Then we have various pleomorphisms of bugs (amoeba are like spirochetes in that they can ball up into resistant cystic forms) and also living communities of biofilms where different bugs hole up together and confer survival strategies upon one another. What a mess, eh? How are we, as lay folk, supposed to wade through this? Well, many of us do recall a triggering infection/environmental exposure of some type and this may be a starting point and can provide clues….it is what leads many folks to seek out antibiotic therapy for their rheumatic disease in the first place.

The one connecting factor in all this is that many of these protocols employ the same classes of anti-microbials, so the question is probably moot what caused the rheumatic disease and more a question of if the tetras alone don’t work, then it’s worth going back to the drawing board and seeing if a combination protocol works more effectively…then wading through the options there with some therapeutic probing. Many folks do well enough on just a tetracycline and this is great! Others, however, like you and me, need to do a bit more digging.

So, is it an amoeba or a protozoa, a mycoplasma or mycobacteria, fungus or a spirochete…maybe all? I don’t know…but it has always intrigued me that anti-protozoal meds, like tetracyclines (used as a prophylactic for malaria), plaquenil (a malaria treatment) and clindamycin (a malaria treatment) are effective in many cases. (Note: As Brown remarked, even Gold, mtx and sulphasalazine have some effects on some of these bugs). If these don’t anti-malarials don’t work, then one of the nitroimidazoles (flagyl, tinidazole) added can sometimes do the trick and the clue to type of bug will probably lie in the effectiveness of the anti-microbial or combination being used. It does seem evident from Eva Sapi’s research that the nitroimidazoles have some effect, too, on biofilm disruption, particularly tinidazole, so its effects may be multi-fold.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21753890

You have found that clindamycin had some positive effects for you, so I am not at all surprised you have been working so hard to find a way to repeat the course. However, finding that flagyl has also been effective for you is good, too – and your pseudo-small bowel obstruction (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21372514) may be one major clue, as well. The good thing about all this is that you’re working with a doc who is willing to do this type of therapeutic probing and, while answers as to which bug may be at the root may never be totally clear, at least these anti-microbials will cover a multitude of “sins,” so to speak, and if they make you well again, then this is all that really matters. As biofilm colonies are a recognized issue in persistence, it’s also possible that as the major presenting infection is treated, other bugs are released and produce overt infections, too….e.g. treatment with flagyl releasing candida out of its hidey-hole.

I find it frustrating, too, Jill, that there are so many researchers who have zeroed in on what they believe is “The One” causative pathogen, but as Clark discussed in, “Why Arthritis?” the answers are probably as many and varied as there are individuals. We’re just fortunate to have doctors around who are willing to do what it takes to help us find answers, I guess. Doing what you are doing, “learning and letting your body tell you what works,” is the only thing any of us can do. I wish there were better answers, too.

[cavalier]

Maz – you hit the nail or nails on the head! – as yes for some of us one AP works & for others it takes more than one layer to see results. I think for some who say that AP didn’t work – they may have been the ones who needed either more than one ABX or they needed a different ABX!

I think seeing a response is important. I just told my hubby today I almost dont care what bug is behind this, but seeing my body respond is important!

Funny I was taking 1,000 mg’s of flagyl for 2 wk’s in Aug. with Doxy & also Ceftin I noticed no response at all & when I got a yeast infection I went off & my stomach was so torn up. But this time taking Flagyl after 2-3 days I see noticable impacts. I am still on the mino too MW& F but combining with Flagyl I am getting less pain, less swelling very noticable! I added in black walnut to help combat the yeast along with Probiotic & I am doing OK with that now which is good so I can continue to get the GI help from the Flagyl & stay on this. It seemed that Plaquenil which i was on stopped being as effective. I feel my body told me after a long trial with zith. while good for some people to not be effective for me. I am not sure why or if I needed more of the chelation affects of the mino that zith doesn’t do. I am getting gains in circulation from the EDTA which also may have some biofilm busting abilities that I was not doing last summer – so perhaps they are more accessible now or the lesser heavy metals from chelation is helping to make it be more effective? I probably won’t ever have good complete answers as to why but none the less I will take some good progress over progression of disease!

Thank you from the bottom of my heart your help in this maize has been invaluable!

Jill SD, Lyme & CPn

[cavalier]

VERY Interesting stuff in this link you gave Maz!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21753890
“RESULTS: Doxycycline reduced spirochetal structures ?90% but increased the number of round body forms about twofold. Amoxicillin reduced spirochetal forms by ?85%-90% and round body forms by ?68%, while treatment with metronidazole led to reduction of spirochetal structures by ?90% and round body forms by ?80%. Tigecycline and tinidazole treatment reduced both spirochetal and round body forms by ?80%-90%. When quantitative effects on biofilm-like colonies were evaluated, the five antibiotics reduced formation of these colonies by only 30%-55%. In terms of qualitative effects, only tinidazole reduced viable organisms by ?90″

I had thought that it’s possible the short 5 wk course I did of the Bicillin injections may have helped a little to reduce the spirochete forms, making the flagyl be more effective at going after the cyst forms possibly?
Something, whether it’s that or the EDTA or the Citus Tea is helping to break the biofilms / make the flagyl be more effective this time. I’m sticking with this to see how far I can get with this for a awhile as long as I keep holding this way in keeping progression at bay.

Jill SD, Lyme & CPn

[cavalier]

I do feel the longer one has been sick, it’s more like trying to unravel knots on a string.

Jill SD, Lyme & CPn

[cavalier]

Maz – I showed your last post to my hubby to read about the different theories of various doc’s as to the causation for Lyme or SD etc.
He asked me who is this Maz – I said another Lymie & RA patient who is a volunteer on the Road back I said why – he said this is the 1st time he felt someone on the outside understood the complexity & realized it doesn’t matter what the pathogen is, but the patient response. I just thought you should know your ears should have been burning in a very good way. 😆

Jill SD, Lyme & CPn

[lynnie_sydney]

I agree -that post of Maz’s was fantastic in its summary view of all this. And it is as if the medical reserachers and practitioners get very caught up in the Why? – when the way forward is about the How?

I have to say that this “how” approach is the way that my doc and naturopath deal with what’s in front of them. Multiple-abx protocols because there is never just one pathogen to focus on, each needing tweaking and, at times, changing completely, on an ongoing basis for each individual because more pathogens come to the fore over time. And that diet is key for every person – because everyone who’s developed an auto-immune disease has leaky gut and diet is a vital part of the road back to wellbeing.

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[cavalier]

The Flagyl stopped helping to control my chronic D. when I went to every other day. I have so much evidence of yeast – that I am finding Krys’s post on amounts of Probiotics very helpful. I am unsure about starting the Clindy IV right now, I just ironically got the nursing service order from Dr C’s office today & I have the Clindy IV package at Dr C’s to pick up tommorrow, but with my GI being back out of control I am talking 10 times a day for the last few days again I am worried about further insult from the ABX to my gut & increasing risk of C Dif. I am concerned that the last 4 months of this happening is due to Candida I have the toenail fungus the GI upset the achey muscles etc etc – I had thought for awhile this was from a herx or it was from the Flu…
Welcome input if I should wait til my stomach resolves more Dr C. is on vacation for 2 more weeks just figures. I already know my regular GP would say to wait.

My hubby also has this too – it is systemic. I had this starting back in Aug. I got it when I took Doxy & Flagyl along with Zith. had a rough go of it but I had hoped this was not still going on but it’s been continuing & my stomach has that same shot feeling again from taking ABX. Hubby got his flared up when he was on ABX recently for fluid in the ear what I didn’t know was Candida can cause fluid in the ear.

I wrote to Dr S. in Ia. to tell him I got the clindy finally but now this candida has developed & asked him for any suggestions telling him Dr C. is on vacation for 2 more weeks & my GP would only offer me Lamisil which is contradicted as my last blood test I also had a raised ANA speckled. Oddly, I had good resolution in feeling relief as I took one dose before I found this on-line by Derm’s. so I know I got a response to confirm it’s Candida. I am taking Lauracidin & I’ve upped the Probiotic dosage but it’s still a ongoing issue. I’ve looked for a doc who treats Candida as Nystatin or Diflucan could help my GP doesnt get that these would work – I know they help – as my son took Nystatin there is one but he doesn’t take insur. bills by 15 min’s, is expensive & there will prob. be a 2 wk or so wait time.

I tell ya! I stopped taking mino 2 days ago as I know my stomach is tore up. Such a balancing act! I fear my stomach is shot – it can heal in time but … I welcome input.

Jill SD, Lyme Cpn & Candida

[Trudi]

@cavalier wrote:

I am concerned that the last 4 months of this happening is due to Candida I have the toenail fungus the GI upset the achey muscles etc etc

Hi Jill–

The following quotes are included in this article about borax:

http://www.health-science-spirit.com/borax.htm

Being such an excellent fungicide it is not surprising that borax is being successfully used to treat Candida. There is much interesting information on an Earth Clinic forum called Borax Cures (10). With low to medium-weight people use 1/8 teaspoon of borax powder and with heavier weight 1/4 teaspoon per litre of water. One drinks the water spaced out during the day, and does this for 4 or 5 days a week as long as required.

Another one about toe fungus: “He wet his feet and then took a handful (of borax) and rubbed it all over his feet. He said it stopped itching immediately! He was stunned. A few weeks later I asked him how his athletes foot was and he said: oh wow! it hasn’t come back! that stuff totally cured it !!!”

I took the borax water (1/16 tsp in a liter of water) for over a year. I had warts for over a year on the bottom of my foot which cleared up immediately after I started the borax. I also think it took care of my Raynaulds.

Good luck–
Trudi

Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

[cavalier]

Tx Trudi – I have seen the borax info, maybe why i am unsure of it working internally is I take Boron already but I def. will try this for the feet – it cant hurt & if it helps then I may get braver :D.
The fact that you took this for a year helps how long was it before you felt internal help?
It helps that someone gets how important this is to get a handle on for sure this is a player in Rheumatic disease & also for Cancer not to mention a litany of other issues of which I hit many.

Best – Jill SD, Lyme CPn Candida oh my

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