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Has any one actually increased there bone density by changing there diet to reduce acid forming foods. It is hard to change a life time of eating habits but I find what I have been reading on this and on osteoporosis interesting. I need to increase the amount of bone in my leg that I broke because I have lost enough that the pins and screws are loose. Calcitonin does nothing but give me sore muscles. I read also that it hardens bones and makes them denser but not thicker. I don't need hard brittle bones I need them to fill in the spaces where the surgeon couldn't re attach them. ( I have some loose pieces that were supposed to grow back together.)
Davit.
Davit, have you tried searching for baking soda on this forum? Search for baking soda and you will get a boatload of information.
[user=1539]Davit[/user] wrote:
Has any one actually increased there bone density by changing there diet to reduce acid forming foods. It is hard to change a life time of eating habits but I find what I have been reading on this and on osteoporosis interesting. I need to increase the amount of bone in my leg that I broke because I have lost enough that the pins and screws are loose. Calcitonin does nothing but give me sore muscles. I read also that it hardens bones and makes them denser but not thicker. I don't need hard brittle bones I need them to fill in the spaces where the surgeon couldn't re attach them. ( I have some loose pieces that were supposed to grow back together.)
Davit.
Davit,
Amazingly, my bone density test was ok, but I had very serious looking problems that radiologists kept referring to as metastatic and thought to be cancer (from 2000, 2007, 2009). After discovering my apparent very acidic pH in late 2006, and doing everything I could to turn around the acidosis since that time, the nuclear bone scan in October 2009 showed “significant improvement” and “no new lesions” since previous scans in March 2007. My pcp has told me to keep doing what I'm doing.
Besides the diet changes to make it less acid-forming, one of the key things that made a difference in getting my pH in a good range was following a recommendation I read about in a book by Dr. Sherry Rogers, in which she pointed out a preferred resource. (She states unquivocably that she never accepts any payment for any of her recommendations; and this is so patients will know she firmly believes what she is recommending), and she herself was a longtime patient. I probably will continue using this MagChlor85 supplement, a liquid in a little dropper bottle, one dropperful in about 4 ounces of water with lemon and stevia, forever. It's the strongest magnesium available without an RX, I read. And if this had not helped, I was considering having IV magnesium to hopefully halt the acidosis and turn things around. Now, it looks like this is not needed.
These are three sites below I've saved from the past several years you may find helpful in answering your question about osteoporosis and pH/acidosis.
Good luck to you, Davit,
AF
http://www.health-reports.com/Osteoporosis.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/Report_acid_alkaline_pH_3.html
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[The following is an example of how if magnesium deficiency is present, calcium and vitamin D can become very problematic. AF]14.3. Calcemic Therapy for Osteopenias
The use of high-dosage vitamin D or its derivatives in the treatment of refractory osteopenias might similarly result in cardiovascular and renal damage, other soft tissue calcinosis, and osteosclerosis, rather than normal bone, which requires optimal magnesium for normal osteocyte activity and matrix formation. Little has yet been done to correlate the osteopenia or brittle chalky bones produced by either experimental magnesium deficiency or by vitamin D excess, the degree depending on the amount of calcium and phosphate in the diet. As regards the use of high-dosage calcemic agents for postmenopausal osteoporosis, reference should be made to the estrogen/parathyroid/magnesium interrelationships that suggest that magnesium's effect on osteocytes and matrix formation might find applicability in preventing further loss, if not serving to increase formation of organic matrix.
Inadvertent proof was provided that hypervitaminosis D produces metastatic calcification when very high doses of vitamin D were used to treat arthritis, even when the intake of calcium was not high (Danowski et al., 1945; Mulligan, 1947; Frost et al., 1947; Howard and Meyer, 1948; Reed, 1950; Christensen et al., 1951; Verner et al., 1958). In such instances, the calcium, phosphate, and matrix were drawn from the skeleton and deposited in soft tissues. In one of the studies (Frost et al., 1947) magnesium was studied and found to be low during the vitamin-D-toxic period and to rise when the overdosage was stopped. The evidence that some arthritic processes might be consequences of magnesium depletion suggests that seeking and correcting magnesium deficiency might be useful.
It is advisable to explore the magnesium status of patients with osteopenias before loading them with calcemic agents, which might prove useless in some or unduly toxic in others if magnesium deficiency is present. If hypercalcemia has already been induced by high doses of such agents as vitamin D or its congeners or metabolites, or by parenteral loads of calcium, the magnesium serum level and 24- hour urinary output should be determined. A parenteral magnesium load may be inadvisable until the hypercalcemia is corrected, and not by phosphate loading.
14.4. Treatment for Hypercalcemia
Because hypercalcemic crises are life-threatening, emergency treatment is directed toward lowering the circulating calcium levels quickly, by hydration with saline or dextrose in water, and increasing its urinary excretion with a potent diuretic such as furosemide, by administration of phosphate to increase its precipitation, hopefully in the bones, and by agents such as calcitonin to shift the calcium to bone, or mithramycin to antagonize bone resorption (Newmark and Himathongkam, 1974). Corticosteroids, which act more slowly, are recommended in long-term control of chronic hypercalcemia. Unfortunately, saline and furosemide diuresis, phosphate loads, and corticosteroids all increase magnesium loss, which is also caused by the hypercalcemia as well as frequently by the diseases that caused the hypercalcemia in the first place. Furthermore, inorganic phosphates have resulted in ectopic, sometimes fatal calcification (infra vide).
Hydration and furosemide diuresis are acceptable, until calcitonin can be obtained. Calcitonin is a preferable agent because it increases deposition of calcium in bone, stimulating bone alkaline pyrophosphatase (Orimo et al., 1970), without transferring calcium to soft tissue sites (Chausmer et al., 1965). In fact, there have even been reports that calcitonin protects against soft tissue calcification (Gudmundsson et al., 1966; Kenny and Heiskell, 1965; Gabbiani et al., 1968; Rasmussen and Tenenhouse, 1967; Rayssiguier and Larvor, 1974a). Once the plasma calcium levels are lowered, magnesium therapy can be substituted for the calcitonin, evidence having been obtained that calcitonin secretion is stimulated by increased magnesium (Radde et al., 1970; Bell and Kimble, 1970; Care et al., 1971; Littledike, 1970; Littledike and Arnaud, 1971; S. P. Nielsen, 1974). Additionally, moderately increased magnesium levels suppress parathyroid secretion (Care et al., 1966; Buckle et al., 1968; Gitelman et al., 1968a; Massry et al., 1970b; Sherwood, 1970; Sherwood et al., 1970; Altenahr and Leonhardt, 1972). Competition between calcium and magnesium for a common renal tubular reabsorptive pathway (Samiy et al., 1960a,b; Charbon and Hoekstra, 1962; Ardill et al., 1962; Heaton et al., 1964; Massry and Coburn, 1973) has also been credited for the increased urinary excretion of calcium and drops in serum calcium that accompany magnesium loads (Womersley, 1956; Chesley and Tepper, 1958; Kelly et al., 1960; Kemeny et al., 1961: S. P. Nielsen, 1970; Nielsen and Jorgensen, 1972).
It is recommended that magnesium not be given until the acute hypercalcemia been lowered, intensification of soft-tissue calcinosis having been produced by magnesium given to rats with experimental hypercalcemia caused by hypervitaminosis D (Whittier and Freeman, 1971).
[/size]AFriend
Where in the problem lies I think is my Calcium consumption. I tried for years to get off the drug Ativan which I became addicted to during all the trauma of knee replacements and Staph infection. A year and a half in various hospitals and all those operations is bound to raise any ones anxiety level. Ativan is handed out blindly even more than the dreaded MTX.
It was not till I started taking Calcium for osteopenia that I could stop the Ativan. And if I take 3-4 grams a day there is no anxiety and no need for tranquillizers. But it is too high. I am really trying to find out if I have a problem absorbing or if I am taking it wrong and just wasting it. I do take it on an empty stomach and away from Iron and definitely ABX. I was also wondering if acid foods or acidic anything is neutralizing it before it can be used. I just recently learned that high dose penicillin depletes Magnesium.
In fact to the extent that all my fillings came loose and fell out. I was always of the impression that one could overdose on magnesium, but apparently not. I am on a beta-blocker for hypertension not a diuretic so I'm not wasting it there. All very confusing. On top of this is the fact that I eat very little any more and probably a lot of the wrong foods.I can see I have a lot of reading to do and I thank you for all your help.
It has been said that no one dies from RA just from the side affects and I am getting a few of them.
Davit.
Davit,
What form of calcium are you taking, and are you taking any magnesium?
Phil
"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert EinsteinThe wrong kind.
O Cal with D and seperate Magnesium. This type of Calcium because it is the only one that works for the anxiety. Might have to take calcium citrate also.
I should probably get blood tests before I do much with this.
Davit.
Davit,
Do you mean O-Cal-D or OS-Cal with D?
Phil
"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert EinsteinDavit,
Found another paper in my files I've appreciated for understanding this subject better, which may be more “reader-friendly.”
http://www.health-science-spirit.com/magnesiumchloride.html
Feel free to PM me (or post here), if I and others can help you search.
Davit, my long-time AP mentor and friend shared with me about http://www.Needs.com . The man who began this company is deceased now, but founded it on the premise of giving real help to people, and this continues. She made me aware that they have on their staff, people trained in clinical nutrition type helps, etc. No purchase is necessary to discuss “our needs” with them. I was very impressed with the help they gave me when my condition had become acute in 2006, plus they had important research I'd not seen which they mailed to me. You might like to go to the site and get the 800# and “brainstorm” with one of them. My mentor told me that Monday is usually a busy day there because the weekends sometimes create a backlog of calls to be returned.
You're a smart fellow, Davit! You will figure this out!!! (By any chance do you live near the other Canadian posters who've mention their excellent holistic physicians? If you do, that might be really helpful.)
Best.
AFAF
Dunster is in the middle of nowhere, that's why I live here. Even Canadians think I'm in England. I'll look through the members list but I don't think there is any one near.
Thanks for the info.
So far I am holding my own against the candida only because the dose of Cloxicillin is low. (Low for me that is).
I'm hoping to feel better after the teeth come out. And I will have to do something about the ostiopena since without bottom teeth this will be a major problem. Hard to believe breaking my leg could cause so much trouble. There have been times when I wished I hadn't been found but I was so I guess there was a reason. My doctor tells me that people with Arthritis handle pain better than any one else and I think he is right.
Davit
[user=1539]Davit[/user] wrote:
AF
Dunster is in the middle of nowhere, that's why I live here. Even Canadians think I'm in England. I'll look through the members list but I don't think there is any one near.
Thanks for the info.
So far I am holding my own against the candida only because the dose of Cloxicillin is low. (Low for me that is).
I'm hoping to feel better after the teeth come out. And I will have to do something about the ostiopena since without bottom teeth this will be a major problem. Hard to believe breaking my leg could cause so much trouble. There have been times when I wished I hadn't been found but I was so I guess there was a reason. My doctor tells me that people with Arthritis handle pain better than any one else and I think he is right.
Davit
Davit,
About those teeth and eating… if you don't have a juicer, you might see if there is one you can pick up reasonably. It doesn't have to be a “star wars” variety, as long as it can at least puree your vegetables/other food. The fiber/pulp would be very good for you, as we don't eat enough fiber, usually. You could “juice” the daylights out of carrots and other good vegetables, and have something that would really wake up those bones and make them get busy growing.
Don't know if you have any sensitivities to any of these additional favorites of mine, but a high quality plain yogurt mixed with liquid flaxseed oil (if available to you) would be incredibly good for getting EFA's (essential fatty acids) into the cells. A scientist (Dr. Johanna Budwig) figured this out a number of years ago and actually turned around terminal cancer patients (this was in Germany). The flaxseed oil according to the articles is much more effective to add to one of the sulphurated proteins (quark/yogurt/or cottage cheese) than the ground flaxseed, but both have benefits, though differences. These are what “carry” the EFA's into the cells for repair]. However, if oil is not readily available, I read that using NOT OVER 3 tablespoons of freshly ground flaxseed and adding that to one of the sulphurated proteins, with a bit of stevia for sweetener, and can add some chopped apple, peach, blueberries, etc. This could be very nourishing for you until the teeth problem is resolved (and even afterward — I've been eating this daily for years now).
Lots more ways to get good-tasting nutrition into you while your mouth is incapacitated. So as not to over-burden you here, and everyone else, if you'd like more on this subject, just send me a PM and I'll send you links. (At one time, I was in a wasting syndrome, looking dreadful, and the Budwig formula very gradually but surely turned things around, as far as restoring me so I didn't scare myself when I saw myself in the mirror.
Think positive, BECAUSE there are many ways to get excellent (and good-tasting) nutrition into yourself that will practically be predigested. I've read that such as these pureed and/or juiced vegetables have so many enzymes in them already that they are much easier digest and ABSORB when consumed this way — and absorption is key; it matters not how well we eat, if we can't absorb because of digestion and gut problems).
AF
My juicer died so I have to buy another. And my blender quit in sympathy so I can't even use it.
The dentist took impressions so the teeth will come out and plastic go in the same time.
I joke about being in the frozen north but I still have fruit trees and fruit bushs. And there are no bugs here so they don't have to be sprayed. In fact since I have no close neighbours growing garden pests I can grow a chemical free garden too. And I have two greenhouses for the tough stuff. being a long ways from California or Mexico, freight drives the price up so high I can afford to heat my greenhouses. Most of my stuff goes in the freezer or root cellar so there is no loss from processing. I grow Cantaloupe and Stevea along with a few medical herbs. We have two Farmers Markets and there is even organic meat although I am leaning more towards fish since I don't raise my own beef any more. The store here sells a lot of local and otherwise organic foods. I'm pretty sure that if they don't have what I need they can get it for me.
Davit.
Davit,
Taking the O-Calcium on an empty stomach is a good way to not absorb much of the calcium. You want the calcium carbonate to have plenty of opportunity to react with stomach acid, and the best way to accomplish that is to take it immediately after a meal.
Are you aware that the prednisone that you're taking isn't helping matters? It's probably the cause of your osteopenia.
Phil
"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert EinsteinPhilC
Calcium binds to Iron and the two get wasted. No calcium with Iron bearing foods. 6 months in the Hospital and I was given my calcium with meals. I left there so anemic that I was passing out. I'm into my seventh month now on Iron pills and I'm almost back to acceptable. I prefer to take my calcium with yoguort or cheese if I am going to take it with food.
Can't stop the prednisone. I don't produce much cortisone on my own. I did at one time get a bunch of one mg pills and tried to wean off it. Well actually I tried a few times. No such luck. Tired of going to the Hospital when I get a full body flare. All they do is shoot me up with Hydrocortisone and send me limping home. Prednisone gets blamed for all my problems. Like poor healing. Turns out I'm zinc deficient. Take zinc and I heal normal.
Davit.
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