New product/reduces joint-specific inflammation/as effective as steroids

[John McDonald]

Parisa – what is your avatar? It seems very intriguing, even wonderful, but I can't quite make it out.

[Maz]

Just as a precaution to make sure the word gets out about FlexNow, as per AF's post above, it clearly states on the Q & A informational insert in the Flex Now box that if anyone is taking an immunosuppressive drug for rheumatoid arthritis that this product should not be used.

Q. Can I take FlexNow with other medications?

A. At this time we are not aware of any drug interactions with FlexNow Joint Formula. Since FlexNow most likely enhances the immune system we do not recommend taking FlexNow if you currently take a drug to suppress your immune system. These drugs are most often given after organ transplants, such as after a heart or kidney transplant, or for serious autoimmune diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis.

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[John McDonald]

Maz, AF,

This statement does nothing to change my opinion about the the substance actually being immuno-suppressive, if it works at all. The sellers clearly have no idea what is in their snake oil or the mechanism by which it works. They are guessing. So I would advise any AP'er to consider it a likely immune suppressor. Why else would it suppress inflamation? It still might be useful if you like over the short term. Maybe it is wonderful for the long term; but beware. If it were an immune enhancer (it isn't) and if RA really is bacterial (it is) then it might be a good thing to take. But only if you really know.

It reminds me of Sulphasalizine's history as I heard it (not confirmed). 80 years ago when sulphasalazine was first formulated the docs believed that RA was caused by bacteria. At that time their best antibacterial was the sulpha compounds. So they formulated a drug comprised in part of sulpha and in part of salicates, one for antimicrobial action and the other for pain relief. For many years the drug was widely used to relieve RA. Then steroids were discovered. The medicos were awed at how thoroughly steroids stopped RA pain so they decided that RA was really an auto-immune disease. Not long after a scientific paper “proved” that sulphasalizine didn't work. Then 15 years later a new paper proved once again that it did work. My point is that it is a real problem if medicine doesn't have a clue about the cause of a disease. Until they confirm the etiology they haven't got a prayer to cure it. Likewise with the meds. They try a med on an idiopathic disease and if the patient gets some relief then they declare a victory even though they have no idea what they are doing.

I'm glad that they figured out what causes smallpox and polio. I wish they would get their heads out of the sand for rheumatic diseases. Well, maybe someplace darker than sand.

[Parisa]

John,

It's a Persian dancer.  A little too intricate for an avatar but I really liked the picture.

[John McDonald]

It is a very nice avatar. It is beautiful and hints at something really spectacular.

[Maz]

[user=3]John McDonald[/user] wrote:

So I would advise any AP'er to consider it a likely immune suppressor. Why else would it suppress inflamation?

 

Hi John,

Your point is well taken and thanks for sharing. Erring on the side of caution, I also agree with you. I'm such a believer of supporting the immune system rather than suppressing it.

In my own case, however, 16 months is a long time to go with swollen knees and ankles and, while the rest of me is responding beautifully to AP (very little pain/stiffness elsewhere, considering every joint was affected at outset), these larger joints have been much slower to respond. I've gained quite a bit of weight due to inactivity (unable to walk any distance or to stand for very long) and have lost much muscle strength in my legs….both of which add to stress on the joints in addition to the inflammation. 

I'm resistant to using prednisone, cortisone shots or the other usual immunosuppressives, but I'd also like to avoid as much joint damage as possible and get moving again. So, any immunosuppressive effect of FlexNow aside, I feel it's worth trying for a couple months to see if I can get this inflammation down to hopefully enable better penetration of the abx. I acknowledge I'm allowing myself to be a bit of a guinea pig here, but with no other reported side-effects or drug interactions, I feel it's a bit like playing opportunity/cost. There may be an opportunity to bring down inflammation, while also recognizing the possible cost. 

I know you understand this reasoning, as you mentioned before and thank you for bringing this important consideration to the attention of us all. It is something for which anyone who believes in infectious theory should remain aware in choosing adjunct therapies to AP.

Peace, Maz

[Neta]

Hi Maz,

Are you still taking the Flexnow and if so how have you felt any improvement?

 

 

[Maz]

Hi Neta,

Thanks for asking! I've been on FlexNow for about 2 weeks, so probably a little too early to tell just yet.  Although nothing dramatic, I do notice a little less pain in my knees within an hour or two after taking the three caps with my evening meal.

The swelling is also less pronounced in my left knee and right ankle (as per my physical therapist today), but hard to say if it's the ultrasound, physical therapy, antibiotics or FlexNow doing the job. I plan on giving this supplement a good two months, as was suggested in the radio show link AF posted.  After that point, I'll stop it to see if there is any worsening over the following weeks.  By then I should know whether it's helped reduce inflammation and swelling or not. I'll be sure to report back then. 😉

Whatever the case, I do think John is right on the money that anything that claims to reduce inflammation probably has some type of immune-modulatory effect unless it is actually known to target infection. In this case, it's not clear what actions this product really has. So, for anyone trying FlexNow (and not currently on some type of immune suppressor – note contraindication as mentioned above in this thread), then it's worth bearing in mind before choosing this or any other supplement.

Thanks, Neta…hope you are doing well?

Peace, Maz

[prix560]

Maz,

I was reading this post today and noticed you talking about swollen knees.  When I first started Enbrel my knees were huge could hardly bend I was not swelling any more but the fluid was not leaving either.  I asked the Rheumie at the time to drain them and he did.  The fluid never came back.  That may be something to consider.  It was one of the best things I ever did.  I figured if the enbrel could keep the fluid off I could give a hand and take what was in me already and dispose of it.

[Maz]

[user=480]prix560[/user] wrote:

I asked the Rheumie at the time to drain them and he did.  The fluid never came back.  That may be something to consider.  It was one of the best things I ever did. 

Prix, what a great suggestion! Thank you for taking the time to ponder this and reply. You know, I had wondered if this might be an option, because the pain is greatly improved, but the swelling has been there for so long, it's like an impacted wisdom tooth and just very slow to budge. I will definitely ask my LLMD about this possibility when I see him next, though I will probably be referred to an orthopedist for draining. One thing that had delayed my decision to do this before, was that swollen knees in Lyme tended to just immediately refill…but I do think it's worth a try just to see if it's a stagnant, clogged drain situation or whether there is still a lot of active inflammation there.

Thanks!

Peace, Maz

[spacehoppa]

Hi Maz,

Yes, this is true of me too. When I was pregnant my inflammation levels went down to near remission levels (until my dad died unexpectedly – and then they shot up again, pregnancy remission, or no pregnancy remission). But my knees did not go down, so I got them drained and steroid injected.

That worked very well indeed and ever since they have become inflamed off and on, but the persistent huge swollen look and feeling – fluid that just never drained away – hasn't been back.

I thoroughly recommend having your knees drained and see what happens. The relief is instant and worth whatever it costs. And hopefully, you'll find that if you do get more swelling, it'll come and go out of the joint as it should.

All the best,

ruth

[Maz]

Thanks, Ruth…I really do appreciate both you and Prix chiming in with this suggestion. I'd been mulling it over off and on, thinking it would never work and they'd just refill, anyway. I watched a YouTube of a woman with RA who had videotaped her own knee draining session recently and it didn't look too bad. It's great that people do things like that. I'll probably have to pass on the cortisone shots, though…Lyme doc not into those….but, he may find a way for me to get intra-articular antibiotic shots. Now that would be a great thing to try. Haven't come across anyone who has done this since reading about  Brown's use of it in the book.

Thanks, Ruth!

Peace, Maz

PS Prix, sounds like you have the good life down south with all that southern down home cookin'….crawfish, though… Maybe cause I wasn't brought up on them, but the thought of those squiggly legs just reminds me of deer ticks. :sick: Sorry, Kim…I know you like them too.

[spacehoppa]

Glad you're considering it Maz. It'd be totally worth the effort and cost. It should hardly hurt at all if the person doing it is skilled. I've had it done a few times and it's no big deal. It's doing it in small joints that hurts like a mofo :roll-laugh: , but knees are a breeze!

And getting an intra-articular antibiotic injection would be amazing! You should definitely ask about that!

[Maz]

[user=415]spacehoppa[/user] wrote:

And getting an intra-articular antibiotic injection would be amazing! You should definitely ask about that!

Thanks, Ruth…yea, pretty sure my Lyme doc will be up for referring me for this. He's pretty open to trying most things….even said bee venom shots would be great, but still haven't worked up the nerve for those, though I hear others have done well on them. I asked my Physical Therapist who worked out of an orthopedic office, if the doctors ever did antibiotic joint shots…he looked at me like I was bonkers and suggested cortisone. :roll-laugh: Although, I'm sure they must do these for joints when people have overt infection. We have a show called Survivor here in the US and they actually filmed one of the participants having an antibiotic shot into a finger joint that became infected (eventually he was carted off for IV antibiotics as the infection was getting close to being systemic). So, I'm sure it can't be something that's unheard of…it's just finding a cooperative doctor to do it. Ya never know, though…my doc might have an orthopedist friend…and hopefully will be covered by insurance. Would pay out of pocket to try it, though.

Peace, Maz

[Susan LymeRA]

Hey AF,

There are alternatives to the surgery that seem to be having good effects.  Does your son have RA?

http://www.iagh.com/

http://www.arthritis.org/gel-artificial-cartilage.php

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-02/dumc-asc020702.php

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/02/050224122513.htm

Susan

[Author]

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