Minocin & Muscle Cramps

[fastspinW]

Hi,

After 5 years on 100mgx2 a day Minocin my face has turned a grayish blue and the whites of my eyes have a distinct blue tinge as well. So a few months ago I switched to one 100mg tablet of Doxy a day. All went well for awhile and then I began to experience a flare. As I work as a boat captain in the summer and therefore can not afford a flare at this time of year I decided to switch back to Minocin two weeks ago.

Now comes the weird part. Five years ago not long after begining AP therapy with Dr. T in Boston I began to experience muscle cramps in my legs. I asked Dr. T if Minocin could be causing there cramps and he said no. Bit by bit the cramps got worse until the point where I often was unable to get more than a few hours sleep a night.

When I say muscle cramp, I am not referring to the sort of nocturnal leg cramps everyone experiences from time to to time. These cramps are so severe as to cause great pain and they often persist for as long as 15'.

Two years ago I discovered an electronic device used to treat neuropathy (which I also suffer from as the result of being a type 1 diabetic) and this greatly helped with the cramps.

Now comes the even weirder part. When I switched to Doxy a few months ago there was a huge dropoff in both the severity and number of leg cramps! And then when I switched back to Mino the cramps returned within about 1 week. Last night I had cramps so severe in both my thighs that I almost passed out from the pain. And they lasted a bit more than 1 hour!

Has anyone noticed a relationship between Minocin and muscle cramps? And, if so, how did they deal with the problem.

Thanks,
Winston

[Maz]

[user=313]fastspinW[/user] wrote:

As I work as a boat captain in the summer and therefore can not afford a flare at this time of year I decided to switch back to Minocin two weeks ago.

Now comes the weird part. Five years ago not long after begining AP therapy with Dr. T in Boston I began to experience muscle cramps in my legs. I asked Dr. T if Minocin could be causing there cramps and he said no. Bit by bit the cramps got worse until the point where I often was unable to get more than a few hours sleep a night.

Now comes the even weirder part. When I switched to Doxy a few months ago there was a huge dropoff in both the severity and number of leg cramps! And then when I switched back to Mino the cramps returned within about 1 week. Last night I had cramps so severe in both my thighs that I almost passed out from the pain. And they lasted a bit more than 1 hour!

Has anyone noticed a relationship between Minocin and muscle cramps? 

Hi Winston,

I haven't had the muscle cramps you're describing, but a couple thoughts came to mind. Seems there may be a correlation, as this is the second time after starting mino that you've experienced this. I'm guessing it was tolerable the first time as you remained on mino for 5 years before with success other than the cramps?

Minocycline (all the tetracyclines) have chelating effects. They bind to minerals, such as calcium and magnesium in the body and minocycline has been show to actually use serum concentrations of calcium to cause T-cells to take up too much calcium and cause them to malfunction…one of its immune-modulating properties. This chelating effect of the tetracyclines is why (as you likely already know being an old AP pro) its recommended not to eat anything that is high in calcium, iron, magnesium, zinc, etc., close to taking the abx, because these minerals bind to the tetracyclines and are rendered useless in the gut.

You're out in the salty brine and sun quite a bit I should imagine with your job (the avatar pic is gorgeous, by the way!), so I half wonder if dehydration may be a problem for you in addition to the mineral sequestering going on with mino and the added complication of diabetes (which has some effect on cell permeability). Could it be in the case of cramps at night with diabetes that this is exacerbated by the normal dehydration experienced while sleeping and is just worse for you being in the sun during summer all day and also with the possibly greater mineral binding props of mino?

Have you considered adding magnesium to your supps by any chance? If so, has this made any difference? Cramps are often related to salt or mineral deficiency…and dehydration could make this worse.

I dunno…just some thoughts that came to mind, as the cramps might relate to minocycline. You didn't get this problem on doxy, but it could be that it's because minocycline just has better tissue penetrability.

Has Dr T suggested you try lowering your dose to 100mg bid MWF?

Really sorry to hear you're experiencing this much pain, Winston. I hope it's as simple as just watching yourself for possible dehydration and/or adding some magnesium to your supps. You might find this discussion on another BB interesting in light of this topic. If you scroll down to the question, “Anorexia caused many problems,” on this RA remedies and and questions page, you'll find an answer from Ted in Bangkok, who I believe is some sort of naturopathic expert (but don't quote me on that! ;)):

http://www.earthclinic.com/CURES/rheumatoid_arthritis_questions.html

Please come back and let us know how you get on, Winston, and hope you feel better soon!

Peace, Maz

 

 

[fastspinW]

Maz,

Thanks for your thoughts on my problems with cramps. It was interesting to learn that Mino has an effect upon the utilization of magnesium by the body and it may be that this is playing a role in the problem. Trouble is I took large doses of both calcium and magnesium some years ago and it seemed to have no effect at all on the cramps.

Muscle cramps, it would seem, are one of those things that modern medicine/science does not understand well at all. I did a ton of research on cramps a few years back and in all honesty when I finished I felt like I knew less than when I began. Talking to doctors about cramps it's easy to see how uncomfortable the subject makes them despite the fact that they are themselves cramp free.

As to the dehydration problem…I do spend a great deal of time in the sun out in the boat and I also have to go easy on the water as there is no bathroom aboard my boat and guests are funny about me peeing over the side. I have also sensed at times a correlation between sun exposure and resultant cramps. At the same time I have had great difficulty with cramps during the winter when I get about 3 minutes of sun a month.

In truth over the course of 39 years of living with 3 different chronic illnesses I have noted the impossibility of drawing causal links between inputs and results. More and more I have come to believe that the human body is simply so complex as to make medicine little more than a ofttimes uncomfortable game of guessing…

Thanks for the positive feedback on the photo by the way. In addition to my work with bald eagles and my charter boat business I am also a professional photographer and it's always good to hear that folks like one of my photos.

I am currently hard at work on a photo essay on the Coast Guard entitled “Making Safe The Way” and the shot you mentioned is one of an area lighthouse. I am also very excited about another project I just began entitled “The Working Watercraft of Mount Desert Island” as I have long felt that Maine lobsterboats are one of the most elegant watercraft ever designed.

Thank God for photography as it helps me keep a positive outlook despite the long and tiring road I am dragged along by my various illnesses!

All best,
Winston

[Nico]

I to have leg cramps sometimes severe, I was told by a Dr. that they were usually caused by very low Potassium . I eat a banana everyday, and they have gone away. I also hear that people have good results with tonic or Quinine water,

Nico:

[lisa-ed]

Winston,                            

        I used to get severe leg cramps from minocycline just like you described. I think it is the potassium too. I eat a banana everyday now and they have completly stopped. I really hope this helps for you too. I know how painful they can be. I used to wake up crying with severe leg cramps nothing like I had ever experienced before. Anyway I hope this helps.

                                              Lisa                                              

[Kim]

Good luck, Winston, looks like you'll be buying some bananas. 🙂

Your projects sound very interesting.  Feel free to post some of your beautiful pix.

kim

[Nico]

Winston,
someone else told me to drink dill pickle juice, I have never tried it but she swears by it, sounds a little strange, but it must have something in it!

Nico

[JeffN]

I have a problem too with upper leg cramps. I notice that they seem to happen more in the summer than winter. I find that after I have had a very busy day at work or just working around the house I tend to be more prone to cramps. I think  dehydration has a lot to do with mine. Maybe this winter or after boat season at any rate try increasing your water intake and see if that make a difference. They are vexing to say the least, the other night my right thigh cramped up and then about ten seconds later the left all while I was laying in bed. I have a homedics massager that seems to help in conjunction with standing and trying to walk around. I have to be on my feet for the cramps to go away. Took a good 15 or 20 minutes for them to go away.  good luck with yours.

[fastspinW]

Nico,

That's pretty strange because although I never heard anyone mention dill pickles as a cure for cramps I love the darn things and I've actually noticed that they do tend to help. Hey folks said carrots were good for night vision for centuries before science figured out why so maybe dill pickles are next on the list?

Thanks everyone else for your input. I've pretty much tried all the mineral solutions (magnesium, calcium, and potassium) without any success. Can't eat bannanas because of my diabetic diet (haven't eaten a piece of fruit in more than 25 years) but I have tried liquid potassium supplements without success.

Like other posters my cramps definately tend to be worse on days when I'm active. Much as I love cycling I had to give up riding my bike last year because I had terrible leg cramps all night long on the days when I rode. Had thigh cramps so severe last week that if I'd had a gun I might have come up with the ultimate solution to getting the muscles to let go… My poor wife had to kneel on the floor for more than an hour pressing bags of frozen peas against my legs before the blasted cramps finally let go. These were the worse thigh cramps I've ever had and they came on a night after I had mowed the lawn in record time. My wife kept telling me to slow down but Maine men won't ask directions when driving and they won't slow down when mowing the lawn if the wife suggests it…

Soon as my RA flare quiets down I am going to try Doxy again at the higher dose and see if the cramps go away.

All best,
Winston

PS Jeff I loved the lighthouse sign!!!!

[Nico]

Maybe its the acid in the vinegar, or something like that, I just can't imagine pickle juice, but if it can work, anything is better than having leg cramps.

Nico2

[JeffN]

Winston – Glad you liked the avitar. We did the electrical work on a lighthouse move a couple of years ago and that sign was on the gate. After we disconnected the electrical service we had the light running on an extension cord (basicly) until they began the move. The movers would unplug the light during the day while working and then plug it back in every evening. I always liked the sign.

Back to topic.

[fastspinW]

Jeff,

I saw one of my all time favorite signs years ago while working as a layout engineer on a dam construction project in Northern Calif. The Army Corp of Engineers had driven a spike into a Live Oak tree on the property to serve as an elevation bench mark and noted such on the blueprints. Apparently unsure of the average engineers ability to tell a Live Oak from a Redwood they then had a large brass plaque made with Live Oak Tree inscribed upon it's face and then attached said plague to the tree. My crew and I almost fell down laughing when we saw it…

All best,
Winston

[A Friend]

[user=313]fastspinW[/user] wrote:

Thanks for your thoughts on my problems with cramps. It was interesting to learn that Mino has an effect upon the utilization of magnesium by the body and it may be that this is playing a role in the problem. Trouble is I took large doses of both calcium and magnesium some years ago and it seemed to have no effect at all on the cramps.

Hi Winston, in your note above to Maz, I want to add that research has stated that most people consume more calcium than they need, and hypercalcemia can displace needed magnesium because any time calcium is taken, magnesium works in tandem with calcium, and it can be used up in this instance. 

Along with this, being in the sun like you are probably gives you a large amount of Vitamin D, which can also be problematic in displacing magnesium.  Mildred Selig's research book on magnesium has been an eyeopener for me (and has shown how much hipe is on the airways regarding calcium and osteoporosis, which large doses of calcium does not translate into new/stronger bone).   

Along with the above, medications, excess meat protein in the diet, sugar, and numerous other these we intake, can make us overly acidic… which also uses up magnesium and other minerals from our “mineral pool” (and I believe when we have chronic illness, that pool probably has become used up and/or much too low… and the body 'begs, borrows, and steals' these wherever it safely can; if it cannot, then the acidic wastes get stored in our fascia, bones, hands, feet, or wherever is safest for the body, in order to protect our major organs as long as possible. 

Maz mentioned dehydration, and with your being in the sun a lot, this along with the load on your kidneys (if you are deficient in needed minerals) may even prevent your ideally being able to excrete wastes via flow… and these wastes can get stored, also… the acids from all the above sources must be neutralized before they can safely be excreted from the kidneys (Mother Nature's way of protecting our kidneys, which are organs we have that cannot repair themselves and are necessary to sustain life.)   

Winston, because of my own uncovered problems with mag deficiency, I literally have collected a 'ton' of links on this subject.  Will be happy to PM you if you'd like more on any aspects of the above.  Also, if you use the above search window, you can probably access previous posts on this subject. 

Best to you,
AF

Edit: 

Top Ten List to Protect Your Kidneys
 
[Just found the above link/information in my inbox after my post to you, mentioning kidneys.  This is by a registered pharmacist, Suzy Cohen, whose work I respect, and sounds like it can be very helpful to many of us. AF] [/color]

[Randy]

[user=313]fastspinW[/user] wrote:

Two years ago I discovered an electronic device used to treat neuropathy (which I also suffer from as the result of being a type 1 diabetic)

Hi Winston,

I sure enjoyed reading some of your stories.  However, can you provide more details on this electronic device.  I too suffer from peripneral neuropathy (PN), but due to SD. Lyrica helps me a LOT, but I can tell that physical stimulation, e.g. massage really helps, so such an electronic device makes sense.

Randy

Diffuse SD since Apr '07
AP since Feb '08
100mg Mino twice daily
Stopped Clindamycin IVs Aug 2019
"No one should profit over someone else's illness"

[fastspinW]

Randy,

Always nice to hear that someone enjoys my stories. My wife tells me if I tell another one she is going to shoot me!

To answer your question regarding the neuropathy, I use a medical device named “The Rebuilder.” I wrote this device up on a professional medical website I sometimes write for a few months ago so I will just paste my review in here:

*********************************************************************
“For several years I authored a column aimed at providing day to day management advice to diabetics. In one of these columns I happened to mention that I was once again suffering unpleasant side effects from my own diabetic neuropathy and a reader sent me a note suggesting I look into an electrical treatment device called the ReBuilder.

Sure thing, I thought to myself, sounds like just the thing I need! And, better yet, I'll bet there is a label on the package that says in bold letters, “As Seen On TV!”

A few weeks later this same reader sent me a second message asking me if I'd checked out the device. I dodged the question by coming up with some sort of excuse. In reply, my reader sent me a link to the website of the company producing the ReBuilder and in hopes of putting the matter permanently to rest I decided to pay a visit.

If memory serves I clicked on the company's link at about 8:45 PM and when I finally switched my computer off at 3:30 the next morning I knew a great deal more about neuropathy than I had known before. More to the point, I was filled with curiousity about the Rebuilder. Long story short I was scheduled to make a long drive to a neighboring state the next day and dreading the terrible discomfort long distance driving always causes me due to the pressure on the back of my thighs I decided to stop enroute at a store carrying the device to borrow a loaner for two weeks.

Sure enough, by the time I reached my destination I was in agony! Both my legs felt like they had been dipped in liquid fire and my feet were even worse. So just as soon as I got settled in I removed the ReBuilder from the package, read the short instruction book, and began my first treatment.

That was 33 months ago and I have been using the ReBuilder faithfully every day since that time. The result? A total cessation of burning/numbness in my right foot and an about 95% reduction of burning/numbness in my left foot. Better yet the terrible numbness in the ball of my left foot is almost totally gone and the severe leg cramps I had suffered at night for more than 2 years (sometimes preventing me from getting more than a few hours sleep a night) now occur only infrequently and with much reduced severity.

“Best Thing Since Thin-sliced Bread” pretty much sums up my take on this device, or as I said recently when my personal physician asked me for an update on the device's efficacy:

“If you want to know just how much I value this device, try to take it away…”

Rather than attempt to explain how the device works its magic I will simply provide the same link my reader provided me and suggest that you check it out.

http://www.rebuildermedical.com

*****************************************************

All that said, I continue to use the device (just once a day at present) and I continue to get excellent results from doing so. With the exception of the recent return of leg cramps almost all the troublesome side effects from diabetic neuropathy have vanished! I've said times beyond counting that the man who invented this device should win a Nobel Prize in medicine for his work.

While I am not currently as active in diabetic counciling as I once was I have managed to get 3 diabetic patients I still work with to try the Rebuilder. Sadly none of them has been willing to use it on a regular basis. Despite the fact that I made it very clear to them that they would have to actually use the machine to gain the benefits they merely tried it a time or two and gave up. How anyone suffering the torment of neuropathy can be too lazy to spend 30 minutes to an hour a day immersing their feet in a warm, soothing footbath is simply beyond me….

I would certainly encourage you to check out the manufacturer's very informative website, and if you feel you are willing to put in the time and effort needed to get the benefits I would urge you to buy a Rebuilder for yourself! They aren't cheap, but if I've ever gotten more bang from a buck in medicine I must have been asleep when the bang sounded.

All best,
Winston

P.S. By the way I lived in Albuquerque
for a year in 1969/70 when I worked
for the Federal Government as a photojournalist.

[Author]

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