Am I having an allergic reaction?!

[tbird2340]

The one I take is called B Supreme so I think it is a complex..

Vitamin B1 (as Thiamine HCl) 100 mg
Vitamin B2 50 mg (as Riboflavin HCl 35 mg; Riboflavin-5-Phosphate 15 mg)
Vitamin B3 50 mg; (as Niacinamide 25 mg; Niacin 25 mg)
Vitamin B6 50 mg; (as Pyridoxine HCl 40 mg; Pyridoxyl-5-Phosphate 10 mg)
Folates (NatureFolateTM blend) 200 mcg:
Vitamin B12 (as Methylcobalamin) 250 mcg; Biotin (as d-Biotin) 2 mg;
Vitamin B5 (as Pantothenic Acid) 100 mg;
Choline 200 mg;
Trimethylglycine 200 mg;

[lynnie_sydney]

tbird – it sure is! Lynnie

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[Char]

Maz:

I have DM and was dx in Feb.  No oral meds until Sep 8  when I started AP and OTC supplements.  My AP doc is out of town and my local docs (primary and dermatologist )don't agree with the AP.

I had a flu shot this Wed (after 6 doses of 100mg minocin – 100mg 2x day MWF).  A couple of hours later I started getting what appear to be hives.  Continued to get worse.  Went to see both local docs next day.  These “hives” are not like any I've ever seen (or my pcp for that matter).  They are huge, (abt 6″ in diameter) very red and hot.  Are on my legs and my knees are so swollen I can hardly walk.  Also on butt and torso.  I am not only itchy from them, but they hurt and I'm achy all over and feel like my nerves are exposed. 

PCP sent me to dermatologist b/c she was afraid it was something more serious than hives.  Derm says it's hives and it's the minocin.    It's been 2 days and the hives are still terrible.  Derm told me to stop minocin  and I said I don't think that's it.  I was doing great – no probs w/ the minocin at all.  We compromisd that I will stop minocin until I am hive-free for 24 hrs. then we re-introduce. 

It's very hard w/ AP doc out of state and having these local docs who think I'm a nut for doing this.  Makes me doubt AP decision. 

I thought perhaps I was herxing and then when I threw the flu shot into the mix my body went crazy.  Of course my local docs don't agree b/c they  know nothing about AP therapy or DM for that matter. 

Have you ever heard about anyone with a reaction like this?  How about effect of flu shot after just starting AP?  Any suggestions/advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for the info your post  – I'm reading the Herx info now.

 Char

[Maz]

[user=1436]Char[/user] wrote:

I had a flu shot this Wed (after 6 doses of 100mg minocin – 100mg 2x day MWF).  A couple of hours later I started getting what appear to be hives. 

Derm told me to stop minocin  and I said I don't think that's it.  I was doing great – no probs w/ the minocin at all.  We compromisd that I will stop minocin until I am hive-free for 24 hrs. then we re-introduce.

I thought perhaps I was herxing and then when I threw the flu shot into the mix my body went crazy.  Of course my local docs don't agree b/c they  know nothing about AP therapy or DM for that matter. 

Have you ever heard about anyone with a reaction like this?  How about effect of flu shot after just starting AP?  Any suggestions/advice would be greatly appreciated.

Hi Char,

This is really unfortunate timing…i.e. taking flu shot when just beginning mino. 😕 If you do a websearch on “flu shot reactions” or “flu shots and hives,” you'll find quite a bit of info come up about this. This is just my best fellow patient guess, but it's possible that you're experiencing a bit of both things….herx and allergy.

In the book, Dr Brown described the die-off or Jarish-herxheimer reaction as a “bacterial allergy.” So, it's not the pathogens, themselves, causing our problems, but the antigenic substances they release to which we become hyperpersensitive. So, in effect, when we're experiencing a herx, it's like an allergic reaction, not to the medication, per say, but to the substances released by the offending organisms. Regular folk who take mino for acne won't experience this reaction, even though they are probably swarming with mycos and other tetracycline-susceptible organisms, too…it's just that the rheumatic is very sensitive to the substances the bacteria release. Sort of like some folk are allergic to pollens and others aren't. 

To add more pathogens into the mix…even dead ones and their viral remnants (not to mention egg proteins upon which vaccines are grown and to which some people are highly sensitive), what could be occuring is a ramped up immunological hypersensitivity reaction. The discussion of flu shots comes up a lot here and you'll find a lot about people's concerns about this topic by using the search box above and just typing in “flu shots.”

I can't really tell you whether it's an allergic reaction to one or the other, as I'm certainly no expert, but my fellow-patient suspicions are that it's probably a combination of both things creating a much bigger assault your immune system all at once, and just really unfortunate timing. Your derm's suggestion to stop the mino until the hives resolve and then to re-challenge is definitely a wise suggestion, but just to be on the cautious side, make sure to read up on tetracycline allergy so you will be vigilant for any sign of an allergic reaction. If I was in the same situation and I experienced the same reaction, I would ask for my esoinophils to be tested. Earlier in this thread, I cut and pasted a section from the main site about this. An elevation in esoinophils (just a part of a complete blood count) should provide an indication of tetracycline allergy. 

Yes, I have heard of hive-like reactions to the tetracyclines and it's critical to determine if it's an all-out allergy or if it's a herx/hypersensitivity reaction, because determining which will be important to knowing whether or not you can continue with the tetracycline class of antibiotics. If one is allergic to one tetracycline, then I'm pretty sure others in the same class will cause the same reaction. This question actually came up for me in the spring, too, and I sought the help of an immunologist/allergist who was able to rule out tetracycline allergy (you'll find more details on this in my Progress Thread link under my sig).

Being just a patient, too, I wouldn't want to recommend anything, dosage-wise when you re-start your mino, but Brown very much advocated for a low and slow approach. He would start people out with as little as 50 or 100mg on just a Mon and Fri and then increase very slowly over the following weeks to patient tolerance to avoid a big herx and the possibility of hypersensitivity. In other words, starting at 100mg twice a day on a MWF is still quite high for a sensitive rheumatic. 😉

Did your derm advise you to take benedryl to help ease your hives?

So sorry you're going though this worry, Char, but don't despair. You have an opportunity to re-challenge with the mino with your derm's permission and, if you find it is a true allergy to the tetracyclines, then there are alternative antibiotics that can be used. You may have to travel out of state to see a more experienced physician to help you, though, if you can't find an AP doc in CO. I see we have 4 doc listed for your state, if you would like to try this list, first. There are also two Lyme docs listed for CO who might make reasonable alternatives, too.

I hope something here helps, Char. Please let us know how you get on.

Peace, Maz

PS DM patients also tend to have very suppressed immune function and I understand that quite often IVIG will help to support immune function. Have any of your physicians suggested this treatment to you? Suppressed immune function may be another avenue to research in terms of a possible immunological response to flu shots. If you have insurance that covers it, I would suggest a trip to a Immunologist/Allergist just for an evaluation of immune function. These guys are pretty thorough and would have you in while you re-challenge with the mino to ensure you are okay with it.

 

[sierrra]

[user=851]tbird2340[/user] wrote:

Well this is strange.. The rash is gone.. So it last for about 30-60 minutes!? Is that strange or what? I'm still going to my GP at 10:15 and praying that he won't say to not take it..

I went into the bathroom and it was all red.. My neck had a few blotches and I had some blotches on my arms.. Legs, chest, back, and stomach were all clear..

😕

I had an allergic reaction to an antibiotic (clindamyacin) and the rash and hives lasted a  good 10 days. They were very pronounced on the trunk of my body. I went in tot he doctor who verified the allergic reaction.

Sierra

[Char]

Maz,

Thanks for resonding and for the encouraging words. 

 I do see an experienced AP doc who is in Calif.  I felt it was worth it to travel to see him b/c I had read alot about him and he seemed more knowledgable than the docs here in Colo.  I wanted someone who could figure out what's going on with me.

I did ask him about the flu shot when I was there in August and he said it was fine.  I kept thinking I shouldn't do it, but did and here we are.  Now I wonder if he even heard my question correctly.

I'm taking high doses of hydroxyzine (up to 100 mg every 6 hours) until the hives subside.  They don't even seem like hives anymore – just swollen body parts.

I'll read more about flu shot and the blood test.  Thanks again for your encouragement.

Char

[Maz]

[user=1436]Char[/user] wrote:

I do see an experienced AP doc who is in Calif. 

 

Ahhh, thanks for explaining that, Char, and very wise to see an experienced AP doc! Hopefully, he will be back soon and you can check in with him on this before re-challenging the mino.

My doc played it on the cautious side for me and did not want me to re-challenge until I saw the immunologist/allergist, so the re-challenge could be done in a controlled environment in his office. Essentially, what they do with suspected tetracycline allergy is that you take your med (the mino) to the allergist and they re-challenge you with very small amounts to start and incease incrementally over a period of hours to gauge reaction. You are then there in the office if an allergy presents and they can avert a reaction with histamines and prednisone. This is the only way they currently have to test for tetracycline allergy, unlike other antibiotics, for which they have skin testing, for example. It's a real pain in the neck, but it's very worth being extra cautious about this and getting an expert opinion.

Try not to worry, though….it may well have just been the “perfect storm” with the flu shot and just starting mino. Just better to play things safe, I always think. 😉

Hope you feel better soon, Char…I really feel for you going through this just when you got yourself started, but so good you have an experienced AP doc on your side to help you navigate this blip!

Peace, Maz

 

[Char]

Maz:

Not sure if my response went through – here it is again.  First, Thank you for the encouragement and information.

What is IVIG?  I've never heard of this. I'll also ask my doc about the esoinophils.

 I do see an AP doc in Calif.  I felt it was worth it to travel to see him b/c I had read alot about him and he seemed more experienced than the AP docs here in Colo.  I asked him about the flu shot in August and he said it was ok.  I wonder now if he heard my question correctly.  I sure do regret having that shot.

I'm not taking benedryl, but am taking up to 100 mg of Hydroxyzine every 6 hours until hives subside.

Thanks again – I'm following your suggestions and reading more about flu shot on this site.

Char

[Maz]

[user=1436]Char[/user] wrote:

Not sure if my response went through – here it is again.  First, Thank you for the encouragement and information.

What is IVIG?  I've never heard of this. I'll also ask my doc about the esoinophils.

Hi Char,

Yup, your first post came in and I replied above. 🙂

Parisa can tell you a bit about IVIG, which is short for IV immuno-globulin therapy, if you ask her or she sees this post. Her husband has DM, triggered by Lyme, and hhas done IVIG infusions in addition to antibiotic therapy. Here is a little write-up about it in Wikipedia, but I would think Pariasa would have some better resource links she could give you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IVIG

And another: http://www.americanoutcomes.com/ivig-therapy-faq.php

Peace, Maz

[Char]

Maz:

I finally got in touch w/ my AP doc.  He perscribed Medrol 4 mg doespak to take care of this reaction.  I was (am) nervous about this as I've not had any oral steroids and don't want it to interfer with my treatment later.  However, I am so miserable now, I'll try anything.  He also assures me it will not interfer w/ ap once we get it started again. 

He wants me off the minocin for 2 weeks, but says it does look like could be flu shot reaction especially since I took tetricycline for years as kid w/ no probs.  But can't be sure. 

I'm so darn frustrated that I got that flu shot.  Was doing great until then.  Please anyone who is starting AP and considering a flu shot, educate yourself first.  It really complicates matters if you have a reaction.  Not to mention, it's very painful.

Anyway, thanks again Maz.  Can't tell you how much your kindness and encouragement helps.

Char

[Maz]

[user=1436]Char[/user] wrote:

I finally got in touch w/ my AP doc.  He perscribed Medrol 4 mg doespak to take care of this reaction.  I was (am) nervous about this as I've not had any oral steroids and don't want it to interfer with my treatment later.  However, I am so miserable now, I'll try anything.  He also assures me it will not interfer w/ ap once we get it started again. 

 

Char, thanks for the update and good on you for your persistence in contacting your AP doc. 🙂 Isn't it amazing that different docs can have such opposing views? Try not to worry about the medrol. It's not unusual to use this for a severe allegeric reaction and the dose seems small enough that it won't interfere with anything. Brown used doses of 5 to 10mg during flares with his patients, just to help them through the worst and to allow better penetration of the antibiotic. At least you will have some quick relief.

Hang in there and please let us know how you get on with the mino break and re-starting. I'll keep you in my thoughts. 😉

Peace, Maz

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