Able to engage in intense exercise?

[ekrueger]

Hey guys / girls,

Just wondering how many of you engage in intense aerobic and / or weight training activities with your diseases?  Once in remission, do you feel well enough to go out and take a kickboxing class or weight train competitively? Reason I ask is b/c I am an aerobics instructor and teach 5 classes per week. In addition, I would like to compete in figure competitions and the way to get there is through heavy weight training and a clean diet. I'm wondering what fitness goals, if any, I would have to give up if RA were to come into the picture.  Please share your thoughts and / or experiences.

thanks again,

Liz

[Lynne G.SD]

Hi Liz;
    YES,I am back to where I was before this nasty disease.Now teaching ballet classes.Lots of huffing and puffing but I am now 64 so that kind of figures,no?

[Maz]

[user=1992]ekrueger[/user] wrote:

Just wondering how many of you engage in intense aerobic and / or weight training activities with your diseases?  Once in remission, do you feel well enough to go out and take a kickboxing class or weight train competitively? Reason I ask is b/c I am an aerobics instructor and teach 5 classes per week. In addition, I would like to compete in figure competitions and the way to get there is through heavy weight training and a clean diet. I'm wondering what fitness goals, if any, I would have to give up if RA were to come into the picture.  Please share your thoughts and / or experiences.

Hi Liz,

This is a pretty interesting topic. My doctor was talking about the effects of intensive exercise and DNA destruction as a result of excessive oxidation. This subject has come up before and I think Cheryl F posted something about this in a previous thread about a year ago.

I did a little researching and found this study, which is about 10 years old now, but may interest you:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10817169

“In particular, extreme and long-duration strenuous exercise appears to lead to deleterious oxidation of cellular macromolecules.”

And,

“Acute or prolonged moderate exercise does not produce signs of oxidative DNA damage and might even be associated with lowering of the levels of oxidation of tissue DNA; however, after long-duration and intense exercise an increase in oxidative DNA modifications is apparent. We suggest as a hypothesis that the relationship between exercise and health is U-shaped. This hypothesis needs to be tested in detail in order to establish the maximum beneficial exercise level with regard to oxidative DNA modification, and also the level that could be deleterious and might even increase the risk for cancer and other diseases.”

My doc was explaining that marathon runners and folk who do extreme sports may actually be doing harm to their bodies. He's particularly interested in DNA destruction as he's involved in studies with rife machines at the moment, which seem to have some effect on killing microbes, but at a cost, he believes, because these machines may also be destroying healthy DNA within our own cells.

According to the study above, exercise levels is seen in a U-shape…that is, no exercise is bad for us, moderate is good, but excessive may be as hard on the body as no exercise on the U-shaped curve.

My daughter had a room mate at college who enter figure competitions and, when in season, the pressures she put on her body were pretty extreme in terms of exercise and diet. I guess if a healthy balance can be found in any form of sport then it's a good thing, but extreme sports can be placing added stresses on the body that could be deleterious in the long haul. 😕

I've always been a pretty moderate (begrudging) exerciser unlike my hubby who is a marathon runner. The 40 mile per week street pounding he has done in preparation has been extremely hard on his knees and ankles.

It might be worth your while researching this a bit further, because with any rheumatic disease stress of any kind, physicial, emotional, mental…it all places a heavy burden on a body that may already be overburdened with keeping chronic infections at bay. I know this must be a terribly difficult thing to weigh in your case, as you have no overt symptoms of RA, just bloodmarkers that indicate the possibility. If you find any good research on the subject, please do share with us, Liz.

Peace, Maz

[Tiff]

This is an interesting topic and one I have wondered about a lot.  I agree with the ideas that Maz posted.  They are kind of common sense, really, but you have to accumulate data to varify things.  There may be another angle that is important, too.

I just saw an article that suggested that where aerobic exercise is concerned, genetic makeup may be a major factor as well.  Apparently some people experience an increase in aerobic capacity from working out whereas other people doing the same level of workouts do not increase aerobic capacity.  The researchers were able to identify genetic factors that seem to be involved.  This did not shock me as I have always felt that my aerobic capacity seemed impossible to improve despite my efforts over the years.  Very frustrating.

This is important because someone might have genetic limits on how much working out can help, but they may continue to over-do trying to do what can't be done – “pain with no gain!”

The research was careful to point out that there are a lot of other benefits to exercise besides the cardiovascular ones, so this does not mean exercise doesn't do any good.  There are weight loss benefits, muscle and bone building benefits and who knows what else.  However, it does highlight the fact that we can't just assume more is better for everyone.  And I think it is doubly difficult to determine when these diseases are in play.  Plus the medications that one might be taking confound the whole thing even more.  It is tough call.

[Mumof3]

Hi Liz, I used to run 40-50 km. per week and compete in half-marathons. I still run occasionally but nothing like I used to run. I find I have to limit myself to half an hour when I do run and not run every day as my joints can't take it. Right now I play indoor soccer once a week and hockey once or twice a week. However with me it is a fine line. Sometimes the exercise will bring me out of a flare. Or if it is too much it can put me into a flare. So I have to be careful not to overdo it which is much easier said than done!

[Maz]

Tiff and Mum…interesting thoughts! Thanks for sharing. Also occured to me that excercise incurs a release of endorphins, which produces that euphoria/natural opiate rush that is felt after a good work-out (but also enables a person to continue pushing through pain and possible damage to the body, like marathon runners). Endorphins probably play a critical role in health and immune system modulation….hence why Low Dose Naltrexone is effective for some.

It's also probably fair to say that shock and stress and illness all lower endorphin levels and have also been tied to the onset of AI diseases and lowered endorphin levels may even be possibly intertwined with the associated depression and exhaustion. Exercise, in general, stimulates the release of fat from the body…and in fat are stored hormones (not necessarily good ones) and toxins. Gotta wonder if these factors may all play in to disease onset for some, too? Could excessive exercise ultimately cause endorphin exhaustion?

Taking it a little further and playing connect-a-dot, seems that the cell-wall deficient forms of bacteria are voracious cholesterol consumers. Perhaps bacteria that lived quite synergistically with us become threatened when fat stores and cholesterol are lowered too quickly?

I dunno…just some rambling thoughts on my part…would be interesting to study this in a bit further depth to figure out some key to the chain of physiological events.

Peace, Maz 

[ekrueger]

Lynne,

Oh that's so awesome to hear! So you can jump around and all? I do a lot of impact activities so it's good to know that there is life after RA.

Liz

[ekrueger]

Maz,

Thank you for the thorough (as usual 🙂 answer!

Liz

[ekrueger]

Mumof3,

Hi there. So I was reading your post and I'm shocked to read that sometimes the exercise can “put you into a flare”. That sucks. I mean how are you ever supposed to know how much is too much? How long do flares typically last for you? I suppose the duration is different for everyone.

Thanks,
Liz

[Cheryl F]

Liz,

This is a topic of great interest to me also as my daughter (http://www.ucsdtritons.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=93268&SPID=11062&DB_OEM_ID=5800&ATCLID=1322168&Q_SEASON=2009) is a recovered scleroderma patient who is also a college athlete who undertakes continual, INTENSE, OVER DOING IT, exercise six days a week, doubles on most days.

So, here's my thoughts on this matter.  I do think that over the top exercise can do some of the damage that can help to trigger these diseases. I  think that over training was a major componet of the onset of Jess' illness.  Stress was another factor, although most of us would laugh at the life trauma that put Jess under such intense stress (AP US HISTORY) to her is was extreme stress, it is all in the way you percieve it.   This is not to say that you shouldn't plan to get back to your version of over doing it, Jessica certainly has.  But what I do think it means is learning everything you can about how your body works, detoxifies, and the supplements that you may need if you choose to put your body under that level of physical stress once you are well, and  you will be well.

There is much to learn, about PH vs acidity, and various amino acids that may come into play, both in your illness and as it relates to your planned intense exercise. 

So, bottom line, I think you should plan on getting back to your intense exercise program, but do so wisely, making sure that your body can handle the fall out. 

Good luck!

Cheryl Ferguson

[mschmidt]

Oh boy…I'm haunted to this day by the words of my very wise older brother:  “If you continue to beat your body up and push it to the extremes, you will be sorry by the time you're middle-aged.”  (I was athletic in grade school and high school)  He told me this when I was in my mid 20's, just embarking on my fitness and natural body building phase.  I was a fitness competitor and natural body builder for 6 years, and my diet was squeeky clean but, not necessarily healthy, now that I look back at it. (unhealthy state of ketosis during competitions, and extreme dieting)  I averaged 15% body fat in the off season, and got down to about 6-7% body fat in competition.  My menses stopped for 3 years because of it, and I was ridiculously fit.  After having enough of that, I went to the opposite extreme, and decided that being a marathon runner was good.  I went from being completely muscle-bound and ripped, to losing a bunch of muscle mass from running an average of 50 miles per week.  I did this at an 8 minute pace, and competed in 8 Marathons from 2001-2007. (my very first symptoms started 3/4 of the way through my marathon training that year)  I remember running a 16 mile day in 85 degree weather, and horrible humidity.  It's the first time I got heat stroke, and you'd think that would've stopped me but, I ran faster to get home quicker.  I threw up ALL day–even pulled a muscle in the process.  I lost 9 lbs that day, and should've gone to the emergency room because I felt so horrible.  That was in June…my first symptoms started beginning of July.  I was even doing yoga 3-4 days a week from 2005-2007 to relax and stretch but, I quickly found myself doing the power yoga classes–which were harder than any weight training I ever did.  I guess what I'm trying to say is exercise IS good but, extreme manipulation of the body (like I did over a 15 year period) is not good, and can put unneccessary stress on your body, making you more suseptible to injuries and immune system compromise.  Don't get me wrong, I looked great but, I would trade it all for my health now because 37 was too young for me to be that sick!!

I don't think exercise caused my SD but, the level and intensity I did  probably didn't help me.  All that being said, after 1 year of AP for SD and Lyme Disease, I'm back to running (up to 3 miles, not 8-9 miles at a time) 2 days/week, as well weight training (very low weights) 3-4 days/week, and do other cardiovascular excercise (walking, elliptical, bike).  I average 4-5 days/week of exercise, and make sure I have 2 full days of rest.  During my iv weeks, I do nothing strenuous because the last thing I want to do is dislodge my heplock.  If I don't feel good, or I don't get enough rest, I LISTEN to my body, and back off.  I never used to have that radar before I got sick, and always pushed myself through the pain.  I certainly do now:shock:  I also make sure I take minerals and supplements to help me, and detoxify my body as much as possible because I don't think I paid attention to that before.  The more you exercise, the more toxins your body needs to get rid of. 

Physique and fitness competitions are really hard on a woman's body because it throws off your hormones, and manipulates your body fat percentage to unnatural levels.  That's why very athletic women with low body fat percentages have a hard time conceiving, etc.  I truely believe there's a protective factor for women to have higher body fat–I don't mean unhealthy by any means–but, you need to find a balance. 

I find it interesting that all of my “non-fit” friends are healthy, and I'm the one that's sick.  I was the “healthiest, fittest” one in the group!

Just be careful going to extremes…Just my opinion, based on years of being extreme, and Type A;)

Maria

 

[Kim]

Hey Liz,

My barometer on what's too much is how long it takes me to recover from over-doing it.  If it takes two days instead of one it's too much and sets me back. :doh:

My goal is to just move each day.  Since it's too cold and snowy outdoors, I use a rebounder and treadmill at home and am constantly doing yoga stretches.

Take care…..kim

[ekrueger]

Hi Maria,

Thanks for your reply.  It takes a lot of mental and physical prowess to be able to compete so well done. That being said, I'll have to second your comment about being the fittest one in your circle of friends and yet being the sickest at the same time. Though I am not “sick” yet, I have had a crazy amount of injuries and setbacks, perhaps my body's way of telling me to calm it down a bit. I feel like my body should reward me for treating it so perfectly over the years instead of paining me. One of my friends doesn't work out at all and in fact hates exercising and she is extremely healthy. Dumb luck? Who knows. Still makes me mad though 🙂  So are you in remission now?

Liz

[Mumof3]

Hi Liz,

I have to third that. Being the fittest one of my friends and sickest. I played competitive hockey and soccer year round as well as ran 40-50 km per week. I also played varsity hockey in university so I was on the ice every day. I was fit as a fiddle. My friends were not fit and are all healthy now. What makes me more mad is my two brothers who drink, smoke and were into drugs and they have no health issues at all. I have to admit I am very bitter about that because I've never smoked, never tried drugs and rarely drank. I took good care of my body and I'm the sick one. However, having said that, I know I put my body under too much stress a lot of the time. I didn't listen to my body at all. But I don't think that it was caused me to become ill. And I am hoping being an athlete will help me with my recovery.

In answer to your question, if I am completely honest, I personally don't know how much is too much. Sometimes I feel great afterwards. Other times I flare. I haven't figured out why yet. I don't know if there's a more scientific explanation which is over my head. And BTW I am definitely in the wrong sports for someone who is sick. Because I am far too competitive to pull myself off the field or ice or slow down if I am hurting. I get too wrapped up in the game and still think I am 20 years old out there! And sometimes I pay for it. But at the same time, I feel alive again so I want to keep playing as long as I possibly can.

In answer to your other question, flares usually last a few days for me and can be very intense. I try and focus on detox on those days with saunas, epsom salt baths and lemon/olive oil drinks. During intense flares, I usually don't feel well enough to exercise. If it is not too intense or the end of a flare, it can sometimes take me out of the flare. As I said, I haven't quite figured it out yet.

Sorry for such a long post. As you can tell, I am very passionate about exercise/sports. It sounds like you are as well. Good luck with it!

[mschmidt]

Liz,

I'm not in full remission yet but, I'm 90% there so, I believe full remission is in my near future.  I, too, felt betrayed at first that my body would “turn” on me, since I was so good to it for so many years.  What I realize now is that, while I've always been “in tune” with my body, I was being “selective” in the process of when I wanted to tune into the pain/injury, or ignore it, and push through it because I could.  To have had the wisdom I have now back then, I would've done things more sanely…But, hindsight is 20/20, right?

Having said ALL that, I have to second what was said about being an athlete will also help me get well.  The key is to find the balance that your body needs to perform at its' optimal level, and it's difficult to do because of my competitive mindset, that I've had since I was a teenager.  That's a hard mentality to break, and I'm doing a lot of work on myself to try to understand the motivation or underlying mechanisms that contribute to my compulsion toward pushing myself beyond what I need to.   

[Author]

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