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[user=465]Jo[/user] wrote:
Fasinating (though very dry – would be boring if not so gut connecting to these diseases) http://www.immed.ord
This website is sooo not for the newbie, too complicated, too intense, too much-too fast. But I'd definitely add it to my, read once I understand the basic's list.
Though I don't agree with the 6 week on, 2 weeks off cycle. Wouldn't that cause a mycoplasma backlash of growth? Though if one were taking another antibiotic during that 2 weeks, I think that would be ok.Jo,
The immed.org site (run by one of the foremost scientists in the world, Dr. Garth Nicolson) when listed as a reference about our illnesses can serve to reassure the new person that Dr. Brown's work/protocol has its basis in good science. Dr. Nicolson was the one who finally came to the aid of our returning veterans from the Gulf War when so many of them were ill with Gulf War Syndrome, and they were not getting any help — the govt doctors saying it was stress related. (Sound familiar?)
Also, in Dr. Nicolson's work regarding AP (antibiotic protocol), I'm remembering his giving protocols — once patients achieve a certain level of success — of using the cycling (rotating on and off) that you mentioned above in your post. I believe for many people, this is a good thing. I've read in numerous articles on longterm AP that when one stays on abx treatment continuously for years, that it is good to change abx for a time, using another abx, and then get back on it, that this may help the abx protocol keep its ability to be effective. (My wording; they did a better job saying it).
Another article on his site many find helpful is titled “Dietary Considerations.”
AF
[user=465]Jo[/user] wrote:
Though I don't agree with the 6 week on, 2 weeks off cycle. Wouldn't that cause a mycoplasma backlash of growth? Though if one were taking another antibiotic during that 2 weeks, I think that would be ok.
Actually, there are papers in existance that show that Dr. Brown also did this type of random on and off with his patients, reportedly for the exact reason you sited as a concern, so the myco's couldn't develop a resistance.
Cheryl
Hi
My understanding is that CWD bacteria such as bacteria can not build a resistance to the tetracycline class of antibiotics –I recollect Henry quoting Dr Brown in one of his books about this –will dig a bit further –Isnt a fair amount mentioned about resistance not being an issue ??????Richie
[user=465]Jo[/user] wrote:
My comments were not related to resistance, but rather to “rebound”.
I understood that if one stops taking the antibiotic, then nothing stops the mycoplasma from multiplying -and thus you get a rather large multiplication of mycoplasma's that thus need to be killed.
Like giving the enemy time to rest and muliply and get new recruits and get stronger instead of keeping the pressure on them until they are gone.
Wouldn't it be better to switch to another bacteriacidal anti biotic during this period where one is not taking the mino?
Hi Jo,
I think you're right….that long pulses, like 6 weeks on and 2 weeks off do cause a “rebound” effect. Lyme docs occasionally use similarly long pulses, because the Lyme organism (borrelia) has a long life cycle and the intention is to trick it out of hiding (from cystic form) and blast it at intervals with high doses of combination antibiotics.
An LLMD (Lyme Literate physician) will take it as a sign that the longer pulses are working when it elicits quite a bit of herxing and patients incrementally begin to feel worse in the second week on antibiotics. The antibiotic pulses are also rotated. So, you might take tetracycline and clarithromycin for 2 weeks, have one week off (also serves as a washout) and then do a round of two weeks with another class of antibiotic….have a one week washout period and then back to the first combo.
I tried the long pulses last year for about 2 months and found the herxing to be intolerable and pretty much when my hypersensitivity issues arose. I think the trouble is that the rheumatic's tissues are extremely sensitive, anyway, so a protocol that elicits too much herxing will create excessive inflammation, as a direct result from high levels of toxins from die-off.
Dr N's protocol may work very well for those who are not quite as hypersensitive, but my own experience of both the long pulses and Dr Brown's shorter, alternate day pulses, is that the latter worked far better for me. Keeping up consistant, low dose pressure elicits more tolerable herxing and helps to keep hypersensitivity at bay.
Your final comment confused me…did you mean switch to a different class of antibiotic…ie. from a bacteriostatic such as tetracycline or azithromycin to a bacteriocidal, such as penicillin? If so, according to Dr. Katherine M. Poehlmann in her book, “The Infection Connection,” the penicillins tend to drive mycoplasma into their L-Forms, which make them harder to get at. So, unless one has a high strep titre that needs to be addressed and may be impeding progress on AP, then probably best to avoid this class of antibiotics and still with bacteriostatics. Bacteriocidals, like penicillin, kill bacteria outright…when they have a cell wall and they do this by interfering with the cell wall. Mycoplasma, on the other hand, are a different kettle of fish in that they don't have a cell wall, only an outer lipid layer. The bacteriostatics, therefore, aren't intended to kill the mycoplasma outright, but penetrate the organism and interfere with its protein synthesis and enzymatic processes, thereby slowing its growth and reproduction. Once this is acheived, it is the immune system which goes in to do the killing.
This is just my layman's understanding of these two classes of antibiotics. That said, however, there are some instances when bacteriocidals do play a role, as Dr Brown outlined in The New Arthritis Breakthrough (page 197):
“In treating RA, when a physician gets to the point with tetracycline therapy thay the mycoplasma have been substantially reduced and further progress appears to be limited, it makes sense to probe the possibility that streptococcus is complicating the process. If a titre of streptococcal antibodies indicates that their levels are elevated. then both the mycoplasma and the strep can be treated at the same time, continuing tetracycline for the former and using ampicillin for the latter.”
This is quite interesting, because normally the penicillins are contraindicated for use simultaneously with tetracyclines. I believe the reason is because penicillin reduces the effectiveness of tetracycline…and, if memory serves, there is a possibility of renal hypertension from the combination. It could be, however, that the doses Brown used were so low that the bombardment was kept up, while also reducing the chances of negative side-effects. I just don't know, but I would think a good AP physician who is conversant with Brown's methodology could explain this further and more accurately.
I was just talking with my Lyme doc and he mentioned the possibility of introducing pulsing for my daughter, who was bitten by a tick about 4 weeks ago. she just finished a round of one month of doxy, but she's going to have a 2 week washout and then start a long pulsed regimen. Her bloodwork shows 3 bands positive on the standardised IGG western blot (indicating previous infection of 6 weeks or more), a significantly elevated C3D Immune Complex (normal is under 8 and she was 55), plus a low B12 (normal 300 and she was 281). Apparently, C3D is elevated in about a 1/3 of Lyme cases, so he's considering introducing a long pulse protocol to try to bring the C3D immune complex down. Fortunately for my daughter, she is showing no rheumatic signs in her bloodwork, so this type of pulsing may be more effective for her, as her tissues are likely less sensitive.
Peace, Maz
Hi
It sure wouldnt be better for scleroderma –in my opinion —especially since I really believe scleroderma does not have an infectious cause as the primary problem-and minocycline acts to regulate collagen production which is the root etiology of sd
RichieI didn't understand your reply. What do you believe is the primary cause of Scleroderma? How does Minocin affect collagen? This is interesting.
Hi
If you would do a search on google you will find a tremendous amount of information linking the environment to scleroderma –exposures to hydrocarbons –silica and much more are definitely linked to scleroderma —-Damaged or mutated genes either by birth or exposure is surely linked –As to the anti-collaganese effect of minocycline on collagen –that is not yet understood but more and more mainstream doctors are using minocycline as a first line med for systemic scleroderma due to dramatic results obtained —
richie
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