Why the 3rd through 5th decades of life?

[ekrueger]

Hi all,

I've been doing a lot of reading and thinking and I have a question. If mycoplasma are responsible for the onset of RA and other rheumatic diseeases, then why does it usually choose the 3rd through 5th decades of life, or the “childbearing years” to rear its ugly head? Why not in childhood when kids are all inhaling each others germs (though I know it does happen in childhood sometimes hence JRA). Not that I am doubting the whole infectious theory or anything. I'm just trying to make sense of it in my own mind. Any thoughts or science-backed answers would be appreciated.

Thank you!

ekrueger

[richie]

Hi–No problem with you doubting the infectious theory —I have doubts even now –I happen to think the environment is a much bigger culprit for these illnesses –The important point to consider is the efficacy of minocin in treating the RA or SD or any other rheumatic illnesses –It is as effective as these new biologics –SEE MIRA study and other published studies by ODEll –Langevitz –Trentham etc –It is really not a done deal as to why it works -but much evidence that it does work —

richie

[Randy]

I was just contacted by a young lady, 21,  who has SD – her SD started when she was 12. Cheryl's daughter is another youth who contracted SD, and I can quickly think of another young lady from Phoenix named Jeannette whose SD started at 19. I'm sure there are many others. When you are wearing the shoes, it doesn't matter.

Diffuse SD since Apr '07
AP since Feb '08
100mg Mino twice daily
Stopped Clindamycin IVs Aug 2019
"No one should profit over someone else's illness"

[Maz]

[user=1992]ekrueger[/user] wrote:

I've been doing a lot of reading and thinking and I have a question. If mycoplasma are responsible for the onset of RA and other rheumatic diseeases, then why does it usually choose the 3rd through 5th decades of life, or the “childbearing years” to rear its ugly head? Why not in childhood when kids are all inhaling each others germs (though I know it does happen in childhood sometimes hence JRA). Not that I am doubting the whole infectious theory or anything. I'm just trying to make sense of it in my own mind. Any thoughts or science-backed answers would be appreciated.

Hi EKrueger,

I think Randy makes a good point….lots of pediatric cases of JRA, Sclero, Still's, DM, AS, etc. I think it's generally much tougher for parents to waver from the mainstream when their children are affected, as they are having to make decisions on their children's behalf and, it's generally only the parents who question conventional wisdom who wind up here. So, it's probably not that these diseases are all that discriminating…as they seem to affect pretty much anyone across the board in terms of age-groups affected.

That said, women tend to be affected more than men in most sub-types of rheumatic disease and particularly during child-bearing years. My own suspicions about this rest largely with hormonal variations. Men tend to remain constant in terms of their hormone levels and testosterone is somewhat protective. Women, on the other hand, go through natural cycling of hormones and pregnancy is an interesting phenomenon in this way. Women with rheumatic diseases often find they go into natural remission while pregnant…with bones, joints, ligaments all becoming more pliable to enable the baby to pass through the birth canal. It's thought that the high levels of pregnancy hormones that are sustained to prevent fetal rejection probably afford a good deal of immunosuppression, too. Once the baby is born, however, and hormones plummet, that immune suppression is lost and post-partum flares inevitably occur. Similarly, when women go through the change of life and hormone levels decline, it seems that more women are affected by rheumatic diseases during this time.

All this said, my best layman's guess is that hormones are steroidal in nature and, during those times when they drop sharply or are imbalanced in some way (illness, shock, stress, post-partum, gynecological probs, peri and menopause, etc), we are just more predisposed to opportunistic infections grabbing hold. Combine this and any number of other factors, like toxic exposures, poor diet and leaky gut, infections, genes, inability to detox (poor acetylation), etc, and a whole scene is set.

Not sure how “science-based” this answer is…I don't think there is any scientific agreement on any of this. Just based upon what I have read, women seem to be more inclined to these diseases at certain points in their life, which seem to correspond to there being some type of hormonal connection. We're up against a brick wall with this, because I don't think even endocrinologists really have a good grasp on hormones other than sterotypical schematics of female hormones and reproductive cycles. Another thing that also seems common amongst female rheumatics in this age-group are thyroid issues…yet another hormone/endocrine connection and overlaps with AI thyroid conditions are pretty common, too.

Big question for me is a bit of a chicken or egg thing…do hormone imbalances trigger opportunistic infections we are carrying or are hormonal imbalances the result of infections upsetting endocrine function?

As Richie said, the jury is out on a lot of this…but if tetracyclines were purely immune-modulatory, then why do some people herx? And, why do some folk do better on combination protocols using others classes of antibiotics that have less of an immune-modulatory effect?  

Peace, Maz

[mschmidt]

I couldn't agree more with what everyone has said thus far.  I do think it's a combination of a lot of things: environment, hormones, allergies, stress…  I also have done A LOT (too much, actually) reading about these diseases, and the explanations for them–even have read several articles and books on microbiology, cell biology genetics, endocrinology, immunology…and am still somewhat baffled.  I do think that there are definite protective mechanisms in testosterone, which may explain why women are more often afflicted than men.  But, even men have declining testosterone levels after age 30 so, why do some get it and others don't?  Women certainly have more hormonal fluctuations more often, and I have a strong suspicion this plays into the disease expression.  There's so much research out there on genetic predisposition, and I think it's a complete waste of funds (just my opinion) because there are so few diseases that are actually purely based on genetics, despite what we've been told by the researchers.  We all have stuff floating around in our bodies but, you need to have a “trigger” to set the wheels in motion.  (environment, stress, hormones)  It makes more sense to me because even though cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc.  can be explained as a genetic predisposition, the rate and incidence of these diseases has skyrocketed among the population as a whole.  I believe this is because of all the things we are exposed to now, that generations before us weren't–genetically modified foods, massive amounts of preservatives, growth hormones and antibiotics in meat, poultry, excessive heavy metals in seafood, dioxins, chemical exposure, pollution..the list goes on and on.  Is it surprising that autoimmunity is on the rise as well?  Is it a coincidence that many who suffer with autoimmunity get better sometimes by altering their diet . (ie. Autism and Celiac)  Yes, I believe there is also an underlying infectious cause in there but, I think there's so much more to it, and I'm not convinced that the immune system one day decides to just wage an all out war on itself.  SOMETHING had to trigger it, and it usually has nothing to do with genetics. 

Since it's happening to young, middle-aged, and old, I would agree that it's becoming less and less age-related.  The one constant that I do believe in is that whatever the cause (because we could spin our wheels all day long trying to pinpoint the cause), antibiotics seem to work for a lot of people, me inclusive.  So, until someone figures it out otherwise, I will stick with the antibiotics. 😀

Maria

 

[Lynne G.SD]

Hi Maz;
     My GP has a theory on why women more so than men get sick.We are the janitors in a familyand always have our hends getting dirty,Washing floors,counters,animal food bowl,the dog's poo in the yard,picking up toys,wiping mud off the kid's bike and on and on and on.We carry more bugs on our hands   than men.Sounds like a good possibility,no?
,

[Davit]

OK.

Here is a question for your question.

How many of you can atribute your start or worsening to a time of trauma.

We all have mycoplasma in our system just waiting for an immune crisis to let it run. probably the same for other infections.

Ra is common after pregnancy and often goes away in a few weeks.

Every one I know can atribute the start to a time of crisis or trauma.
This explains why I have RA but none of my familly or relatives do. There has been more than enough trauma in my life.
You can see I am ruleing out Lyme since we know where it comes from.

Davit.

[Davit]

Lynne

If you look at my theory being immune stress or trauma. Then what do women have every month that men don't?

Why do people after 50 that get arthritis get it less bad than those under?

Davit.

[Maz]

[user=1539]Davit[/user] wrote:

Ra is common after pregnancy and often goes away in a few weeks.

Every one I know can atribute the start to a time of crisis or trauma.
This explains why I have RA but none of my familly or relatives do. There has been more than enough trauma in my life.
You can see I am ruleing out Lyme since we know where it comes from.

Davit, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by your first comment above. Can you explain further? Do you mean RA remits weeks after a woman becomes pregnant or that RA goes away after the pregnancy ends?

Also not sure what you mean by your second comment. Latent Lyme has been associated with activation following trauma in the literature. Here is just one specialist's take in an article on CanLyme:

http://www.canlyme.com/donta.html

“There appear to be substantial numbers of patients who remain asymptomatic, but reactivate their disease a number of months or years later, following trauma, pregnancy, a medical illness for which an antibiotic is prescribed, or other stresses, including psychological stresses (9). “

Peace, Maz

[Davit]

I have had a few people say that after the child is born they had a few weeks of Arthritis like symptoms that go away as they get over the child birth. One woman refused to have anymore kids.
I read about it also but it was so long ago that I can't remember where.

I can't speak for Lyme because I know nothing about it. Are you saying that trauma can set off lyme too?

[Maz]

[user=1539]Davit[/user] wrote:

I have had a few people say that after the child is born they had a few weeks of Arthritis like symptoms that go away as they get over the child birth. One woman refused to have anymore kids.
I read about it also but it was so long ago that I can't remember where.

I can't speak for Lyme because I know nothing about it. Are you saying that trauma can set off lyme too?

Davit, do you mean post-partum thyroiditis, which is usually transitory, but can cause joint pain for a short time until the thyroiditis resolves? If so, this isn't necessarily an “autoimmune” rheumatic disease, but caused by a temporary inflammation of the thyroid:

http://www.arthritis-treatment-and-relief.com/joint-pain-related-to-post-partum.html

“Postpartum thyroid difficulties are common ? as many as 10 percent of women may suffer thyroid problems after childbirth. Thyroid disease can surface in someone who has never had thyroid problems before ? or in women who have been previously diagnosed with hypo- or hyperthyroidism. Thyroid disease can often be associated with joint pains.“

Yes, latent (dormant) Lyme can be set off by trauma as per Dr D above. This happened in my case. If you're interested, there are a few other articles at CanLyme about this you can read by typing in “trauma” in the CanLyme search box.

Peace, Maz

[Maz]

[user=31]Lynne G./SD[/user] wrote:

     My GP has a theory on why women more so than men get sick.We are the janitors in a familyand always have our hends getting dirty,Washing floors,counters,animal food bowl,the dog's poo in the yard,picking up toys,wiping mud off the kid's bike and on and on and on.We carry more bugs on our hands   than men.Sounds like a good possibility,no?
,

Hi Lynne,

Sounds like a good theory and it's possible that women are more exposed to household cleaning materials and higher levels of these sorts of environmental toxins. I don't know if I quite buy that women are any more exposed to pathogens than men, though, as men today seem to share the load at home more than in days gone by. The workplace, too, can be a very dirty place….phones, computer keyboards, cellphones, desktops, shaking hands, ventilation systems, etc.

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-4247427/Office-Cleanliness-Monitor-Finds-Unclean.html

I dunno, Lynne…what do you think? Men and women seem equally exposed these days with men helping out at home and women working outside the home.

Peace, Maz

[lynnie_sydney]

it's possible that women are more exposed to household cleaning materials and higher levels of these sorts of environmental toxins.

and household cleaning products tend to be packed with phyto-estrogens and my ol' soapbox favourite……………….salicylates. Lynnie

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[Patti D]

Lynne,
Based on the studies I use in training others( University Of Texas A& M 2002 study on handwashing ), Men are far worse at hand washing than women, thus carrying more pathogens on a regular basis.
Exposure is an issue but handwashing may be a bigger issue.

patti

[ekrueger]

Hey Lynne

I was wondering how long you've been in total remission as I read on your caption thing. Just looking for stories that inspire hope 🙂

thanks,
ekrueger

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