Why Arthritis

[Jo]

So many interesting points in this book. One in particular was of interest to me, and might be of interest to other MSM users.

Page 79

 

“In the 1930's, doctors were promoting sulfur-containing foods. which were considered reducing agents or antioxidants and seemingly limited the amount of inflammation. 

…

Therapy directed toward the control and reduction of inflammation is most essential as it could provide a less hostile and optimum environment for other therapies, such as antibiotics, directed toward the causative agent.
* * * * * *

It would seem that MSM, a sulphur compound, does indeed create an optimum environment for the antibiotic to work.  Our experience indicated this was so, but you know, I couldn't help but get excited to see it in print, and that the knowledge was soooo old.  laughs

 

[orchid]

I've ordered the book but yet to receive it. Interested in reading more about MSM if it talks about it. I plan on asking Dr S about it as well.

I've been eating a lot of fresh garlic, which I love. We bake it and then blend it with olive oil on rice crackers or a healthy bread – yum!

Thanks for the info — I can't wait to get my book now.

I do know some people are highly allergic to sulpher. My sister-in-law can't eat garlic because it upsets her stomach so much. And she once ended up in the hospital because they prescribed her a drug with sulpher in it, which obviously gave her a bad reaction.

[Jo]

[user=515]orchid[/user] wrote:

I've ordered the book but yet to receive it. Interested in reading more about MSM if it talks about it. I plan on asking Dr S about it as well.

I've been eating a lot of fresh garlic, which I love. We bake it and then blend it with olive oil on rice crackers or a healthy bread – yum!

Thanks for the info — I can't wait to get my book now.

I do know some people are highly allergic to sulpher. My sister-in-law can't eat garlic because it upsets her stomach so much. And she once ended up in the hospital because they prescribed her a drug with sulpher in it, which obviously gave her a bad reaction.

No body is allergic to MSM, not if they are alive, and in a body that has connective tissue in in. Connective tissue has this same kind of sulphur.   None of this particular type of sulphur means no connective tissue, means no body at all.

Back to the book, I found it fasinating when it described all the various ways that Tetracyclines worked.

Pg 112

Either as an anticollagenase, anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, immunospupressant, antibacterial, or antimycoplasma therapy.

Pg 110

Collagen is one of the major structural proteins of cartlage, skin, bone, blood vessels, and almost every tissue.

Connective tissue disorders have the collagen in the connective joint tissues destroyed.

pg 111

The investagators concluded that this special therapeutic property, anticollagenolytic, of tetracyclines could be successfully used in treating diseases that involve excessive collagen destruction, such as the collagen vascular disorders, including rheumutoid arthritis.

The multiple nonantibiotic activities of tetracyclines were further recognized when it was apparent that the calcium and zinc metal ions in the collagenase enzyme were bound by the chelating tetracycline, thus inhibiting the collagenase activity.

(my notes: I think this is the reason that it's so important for the 2 hour wait between eating and taking the tetracyclines, if the tetracyclines bonds to these or similar minerals in your gut, then it has no available bonding spots for the collagenase enzyme )

(further note: msm also has this chelating effect with toxins and excess minerals such as lead and mercury,  so perhaps it helps to remove possible minerals that might interfer with the tetracyclines, as one of the ways it helps them work??? It is not associated with any insufficencies, so it apparently has a mechanism to reconize good, enough vs bad, too much)

(for newbies, the collagenase enzyme is carried by the white blood cells, and is what actually destroys your joints.)

One doctor in Washington, D.C., who realized that there was a similar mechanism involved, successfully treated some of his diabetic retinopathy and gangrene patients with tetracycline therapy until the medical society threatened to withdraw his medical license.

pg 154

As a connective tissue and collagen vascular disorder, with elevated amounts of destructive collagenase activity, it woulod seem most likely that the inhibitory tetracycline therapy would certainly benefit the RA patients and perhaps even stop the disease.

(personal note – wonder if “stop the disease” has any connection at all to cure the disease? Is he trying to use PC wording to prevent knee jerk rejections in doctors who read this? )

[Patti D]

Jo,
I am confused. My doctor just told me this week that the reason minocycline(tetracycline) works so well for RA & lyme too is that minocycline helps rebuilds the collagen that is destroyed by these disease processes.

Patti

[Jo]

[user=287]Patti D[/user] wrote:

Jo,
I am confused. My doctor just told me this week that the reason minocycline(tetracycline) works so well for RA & lyme too is that minocycline helps rebuilds the collagen that is destroyed by these disease processes.

Patti

Pg 110

Collagen is one of the major structural proteins of cartlage, skin, bone, blood vessels, and almost every tissue.

***

collagenase enzyme is what breaks down the collagen.  Collagenase is the antagonist for collagen, not the same thing at all.

Another way of saying that tetracyclines stop the destruction, the book didn't say it helps rebuld, but it didn't say it didn't either.

Your doctor is probably correct, as I had heard that Doxy is better than Minocin at rebuilding the joints. So both must be able to do it.

I'm only discussing whats in the book, and what seems interesting to me.

Thanks for reminding me that it also rebuilds.  It's so hard sometimes to keep it all straight. Another wonderful thing to add to the list of Benefits from using tetracyclines.

I wonder if that's why Mr Perfects damaged joints (the doctors said replace, no other choice, all gone) don't hurt any more. Because the tetracyclines have been rebuilding the collagen. 

 

[Rockin Annie]

Hi Jo…….I have read a few of your posts on MSM, and because I am starting Ap tomorrow, I would like to add this to my supplements.

Question…..what should I look for when buying MSM, and when should I take it?

 

Thankyou for your helpful & interesting posts…….Annie

Diagnosed with RA in 2004, after trying many conventional meds I changed to mino.
2015 changed to doxy 50mgs
2016 went off doxy, after getting double pneumonia and massive flare put myself on 250 mgs Zith & 50 mgs doxy, which I will increase slowly.
Supps, magnesium, NAC, vit c, krill oil, oregano oil, thisylin, turmeric, olive leaf extract, vit B, multi vit.

[Lynne G.SD]

Hi Jo;
    My doc has all her patients take MSM,it is very important in system regulation.Did you know that MSM and Biotin will give you great hair and nailsin less than ayear….just one little benefit

ORCHID;
          I think you are confusing sulpha(a drug) with sulphur.I am terribly allergic to sulpha drugs but take 4 teaspoons of MSM a day

[Rockin Annie]

What a great benefit, great hair….will look forward to it…..the things you learn on this forum……I have been taking Silica for months for my hair, skin, as the meds were playing havoc with them, and then I read on this forum silica causes Scleroderma…..thats all I need……………

thanks……Annie

Diagnosed with RA in 2004, after trying many conventional meds I changed to mino.
2015 changed to doxy 50mgs
2016 went off doxy, after getting double pneumonia and massive flare put myself on 250 mgs Zith & 50 mgs doxy, which I will increase slowly.
Supps, magnesium, NAC, vit c, krill oil, oregano oil, thisylin, turmeric, olive leaf extract, vit B, multi vit.

[Jo]

The ties that bind

From page 189

Mysoplasmas have a high affinity and specificity for joint tissues and the vascular mucoproteins.

Their specific binding and alteration of the attached basic proteins to form autoantigens provides them with a unique role as a persistent inflammatory autoimmune carrier.

For example, by combining with and thus altering a host's mucoprotein, the host would form autoantibodies against it's own vascular tissue muscoprotein.

By combining with a basic mycilin protein, mycoplasmas could thus induce autoantibodies against the mycilin nerve sheath as in multiple sclerosis.

By Combining with a specific basic protein in the pancreatic beta cells, mycoplasmas could induce autoantibodies that would inhibit the insulin-producing cells as in diabetes.

This complexing and tissue binding provides an explanation for the inability to readily isolate mycoplasmas after initiating the immune disease mechanisms as well as their ubiquitous isolation from the nonreactive asymptomatic subjects.

The genetic susceptibility factor plays a key role, as in other infectious processes, in determing who and what tissues become attached and the resulting disease.

Like many of the autoimmune disorders, such as Alzheimer's, diabetes, multiple sclerosis, rheumatoid arthritis, and SLE, the slow erosion of specific functional tissues may occur over several years in the apparent absence of any detectable infectious agent and prior to any meaningful clinical expression.

[Joe M]

Jo,

Here's something I found written by Dr. Clark that mentions gorillas and RA.

http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/123/5/393

In his references, he mentions “[font=”verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif”][font=”arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif”]A Mechanistic approach of rheumatoid-type arthritis naturally occurring in a gorilla” which he co-authored with Dr. Brown.  Search on that exact title and you can read the entire study on Pub Med.  For some reason, this link does not seem to work.[/font][/font][/size] 

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=2441056&blobtype=pdf

The study makes so much sense.  It really is a shame there is not more research along these lines today.  T. Marshall seems to be leading the charge, but I recall reading you are not swayed by his model of AI disease.  Is it because of all the Vit D stuff, or the use of benicar?  Just curious.

Thanks
Joe 

[orchid]

I read something about the gorilla with RA but then I thought it was mentioned somewhere else that a gorilla had reactive arthritis and was cured with an antibiotic?

I don't know — it's been a long day and I'm tired….:)

Are these two different gorillas I'm thinking of? :roll-laugh:

[m.]

[user=465]Jo[/user] wrote:

The ties that bind

From page 189

Mysoplasmas have a high affinity and specificity for joint tissues and the vascular mucoproteins.

Their specific binding and alteration of the attached basic proteins to form autoantigens provides them with a unique role as a persistent inflammatory autoimmune carrier.

For example, by combining with and thus altering a host's mucoprotein, the host would form autoantibodies against it's own vascular tissue muscoprotein.

I'd be interested in the connection between collagen-destroying stealth infections, lack of vitamin C (subclinical scurvy & destruction of collagen), and heart disease.

Some researchers believe leaky vascular tissue is patched up with cholesterol, which makes one think what root causes there could be to the leaky vascular tissue.

[Maz]

[user=732]m.[/user] wrote:

Some researchers believe leaky vascular tissue is patched up with cholesterol, which makes one think what root causes there could be to the leaky vascular tissue.

Hi Michelle,

I've questioned the same thing…. Dr S (GA) also mentioned in a chat on rheumatic.org that Harvard did some studies on the heart protective properties of minocycline.

When I was researching gallbladder and liver flushing a few years ago, it was also suggested on a discussion board that pathogens winging their way through the blood stream, attach themselves to the arterial walls, causing inflammation and thus little tears. These tears are patched by cholesterol, but it's when the patches become excessive that blockages and clots form.

This is just speculation, but my layman suspicion is that these CDWs (cell wall deficients) sequester cholesterol from the host in ravenous proportions to maintain their outer lipid layers. If they are indeed lining the arterial walls, could they be enjoying the nice ready food source they are attracting to their colonies, thus further damaging arterial walls?

I started questioning this, because in the year before I became sick, my total cholesterol was a little on the the high side at 235. I managed to bring it down with exercise, diet and supplements within about 5 or 6 months to 191. However, shortly after I got Lyme and then RA very swiftly on its heels. A few months into this and the worst of my inflammation, my total cholesterol was retested and it was down to 141…. a very rapid, inexplicable decrease. Something, somehow was stealing cholesterol, as I had been unable to exercise or eat all that well when I was at my sickest. I also believe it affected hormone production, because all signs of prior pms entirely disappeared during this time….cholesterol being needed for hormone production.

So, is leaky vascular tissue the result of inflammation-causing pathogens, finding a nice location to catch free-floating cholesterol and use it to their advantage? I don't know, but just seems likely to me. Amy Proal also has an article on her bacteriality.com website that seems to point to a similar thing.

http://bacteriality.com/2008/01/26/cad/

Whaleharbor posted these links a while back on this topic:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol4no4/campbell.htm

http://www.theheartattackgerm.com/this%20just.htm#03-18-05

http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/12.12/23-%5Bhighlight= #ffff88]chlamydia[/highlight].html

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/33314.php

Apparently, these studies don't tie in antibiotic therapy once heart disease has set in…of course….but I found a study and posted it a month or so ago showing that heart attack victims treated after the event for chlamydia pneumoniae had better outcomes. Have been searching for the post, but can't find it yet. If I can find the link, I'll post it again.

Peace, Maz

 

[Joe M]

Gee Maz, and I thought I was going to get some work done today.  :roll-laugh:

[Maz]

You're a very drole bull, Joe. :roll-laugh: Gotta admit, I don't know how anyone holds down a full time job with these RDs.

Peace, Maz

[Author]

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