What's eating my cholesterol?

[Lizz]

Hi to all – as we go down the twists and turns in our roadback to wellness, things never cease to amaze me, especially my bloodwork. Although I am suddenly anemic, have ESR in the 60's and CRP in the 70's, my anti-ccp has gone from the high 70's to 26 at the last check. The most interesting thing is that my total cholesterol keeps going down, it is 151. I also have alot of “good” cholesterol. How come? Are the bugs devouring the cholesterol? Since I'm sick anyway, does the cholesterol thing really matter, does the CRP matter more? Always looking for answers…

[Maz]

[user=48]Lizz[/user] wrote:

Hi to all – as we go down the twists and turns in our roadback to wellness, things never cease to amaze me, especially my bloodwork. Although I am suddenly anemic, have ESR in the 60's and CRP in the 70's, my anti-ccp has gone from the high 70's to 26 at the last check. The most interesting thing is that my total cholesterol keeps going down, it is 151. I also have alot of “good” cholesterol. How come? Are the bugs devouring the cholesterol? Since I'm sick anyway, does the cholesterol thing really matter, does the CRP matter more? Always looking for answers…

Lizz, this is a really good question and one I've asked myself, too! Before I got sick with Lyme (and then RA right on its heels), I'd had my total cholesterol checked and it was reading a borderline high at about 235. It was the summer of 2006 and I was determined to enter my prime in a healthy state and started working out with a boot camp trainer and followed a very careful diet. As a result, I was at my ideal weight within a few months and feeling fantastic. My avatar pic was taken then…but I look significantly different now, 30 pounds heavier and older looking. :crying: 

A few months later, all hell broke loose when I got sick and about 4 or 5 months later my LLMD checked my cholesterol again and it was reading 141! It literally dropped 94 points within about 9 months.

As I began to learn about cell-wall deficient organisms (of which Lyme has some, called spheroplastic L-Forms), like mycoplasma, I discovered an interesting thing…these organisms have an outer lipid layer and are voracious cholesterol consumers. It's my best guess that this is why my levels plummeted like this. It also occured to me that this is why many women find their hormones go whacky, too. Lipids (in the form of sterols) are needed in the manufacture of hormones.

Anothering interesting 'possible' connection I discovered is that heart and vascular disease are common in RA. Why? Well, the common answer is inflammation. But why the inflammation??? In cardio-vascular disease, the blood vessels become inflammed and cause little tears in the arteries. To patch these up, cholesterol rushes to the site to form a bandaid. Too much cholesterol, of course, and you wind up with blockages from these sclerotic lesions. Following this train of thought, it occured to me that what a great place for these CWD organisms to hang out! They create a little infection in the blood vessels, which produces inflammation that attracts cholesterol and they have a ready food source that comes right to them.

Of course, this is all just a Maz theory and I'm no scientist, but this is why it might make very good sense to supplement with good fats, like fish oil, flax seed oil, the various omegas. Low cholesterol levels do result in hormonal imbalances, so it's important to keep the HDL (good cholesterol) up. Docs now know that it's not really the total cholesterol that is important, but the cholesterol ratio. If your HDL levels and cholesterol ratio are good, then this is very likely a good thing.

Anyway…please don't take any of this as gospel truth…this is just my own ruminations based on connections I've made to research I've found. What is true, however, is that CWDs are voracious cholesterol consumers and infections cause inflammation. Would be nice if science could throw us a bone and connect some dots for us.

The study I posted on male mycocardio-infarction studies found that many of these men did much better when treated after the event with azithromycin! Turned out they had elevated chlamydia pneumoniae titers! 

http://www.circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/96/2/404

Peace, Maz

[Trudi]

My cholesterol has dropped from a high of 203 down to 143 in January.  I just had lab work done on Tuesday; I will be curious where I'm at.  Maz has made mention in the past about the drop in cholesterol and, yes, the bugs may be feeding on them.  I see the doctor on Wednesday, will ask him if that really is the case! 

Trudi

Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

[Lizz]

Thanks Maz and Trudi, I find the bug eating theory makes alot of sense. I'm on zith now too, so hopefully that will help with cardiac issues. I was just wondering if the low total cholesterol is just an artificial number like the CRP is when you have a high sed rate, they seem to go hand in hand. Lower the sed rate, lower the CRP. Maz, don't worry about the weight gain and looking older, I'm sure you are being hard on yourself and still look great! You all notice I don't have my pic up!

[m.]

Lizz, care to share your numbers? Total? HDL? LDL?

[Lizz]

m. – it's coming via mail next week. I'll post it as soon as I get it.

[Maz]

Lizz, just looked up this old article again for Daver and thought of your question today:

http://www.rain-tree.com/fibromyalgia.htm

The Correlation between Fibromyalgia and Mycoplasmas
“1. Mycoplasmas require a large amount of cholesterol and other sterols for growth and reproduction. If mycoplasmas are present and are competing for these sterols intracellularly, less is available to the body and especially the neuroendocrine system for the sythesis and manufacture of steroids like estrogens, growth hormones and cortisols which many FMS patients have been found to be deficent in.”

Peace, Maz 

PS. Thanks for your very kind words, Lizz. I'm not too hard on myself these days…having been to hell and back in the past couple of years kind of puts my normal female vanity into perspective a bit. :roll-laugh: Getting well again is my top priority…losing the blubber will come next.

[Patti D]

Hey Maz,
You know me and the post-prednisone”blubber”. I too am 30lbs. heavier so I tell everyone at my training classes, there is more of me to LOVE!!!
If these fat little ankles are getting me from point A to point B I am happy.
Maybe I should call these “happy feet”.
This whole post has me wondering about my cholesterol. I haven't had it checked in a while but it was always good. What hormone tests have you ladies my age all had. I am curious?

Happy feet!
Patti

[Lizz]

Patti- I am going to be working on my hormones as soon as I get my thyroid straightened out. I already know adrenally I am super low in DHEA and will also be addressing that. I am post menopausal, so that's why I think off hormones, adrenals and thyroid really contribute to pain, in my case, muscle pain. I am really sick of it. We are moving in a couple of weeks and I'll just have to stand there pointing. In my good days, I would have had the boxes loaded in the truck before anybody else! I miss the old me! Patti, I hope you are doing well and all the best!

[Patti D]

Lizz,
You know I always liked to hear your posts as you look at our diagnosis dates and we are one month apart. I am really sorry that you feeling so bad. That is a pretty high CRP & sed rate. That to me is the indicator of healthy vs sick. I felt like crap when my sed rate was 35 . I am still worried about my anti-ccp. It is 221 still but my rheumatoid factor is down from 200 to 40 and all other blood work is normal. My CRP was 7 and CBC normal.

I too get muscle pain occassionally in my biceps. Stress has lot to do with my stuff. I am post menopause too, but feel you need to ask for blood tests for thyroid adrenals etc. Nobody offers this, other than the screening tests which I would like the full thyroid panel done but my doctor would not do it as my screening test was normal. Go figure.
They can have us spend all of this money on medications, but can't do the diagnostic testing without jumping through hoops.
Anyway Lizz, I am sending well wishes your way. Last year I ws pretty sick too and we had a major flood here. I watched my husband lift soaking wet sand bags in the rain that were unbelievably heavy and all I could do was hold the plastic that he placed the sand bags on. It is a humbling experience.
You will get better!!!
Happy days!
Patti

[Trudi]

[user=287]Patti D[/user] wrote:  

What hormone tests have you ladies my age all had. I am curious?

Hi Patti–

At my first visit with my naturapath in 2006, she tested DHEA-S, testosterone, thyroid (free T4, TSH 3rd gen) estradiol, and progesterone.  I did take a compounded bio-identical estrogen and progesterone for a year hoping it would help the joint pain.  When it didn't, I stopped using it.  No difference in pain on or off.

Take care,

Trudi

Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

[Lizz]

Thanks Patti for your kind thoughts- I think my problem is that I am still herxing from the clindy IV's that ended in March. Also I am now on a new protocol, mino, zith, flagyl and plaquenil, waiting for this stuff to hopefully kick in. I'm also dealing with a possible lyme diagnosis, that's why the dr. changed the meds. The interesting thing is that the anti-ccp is almost normal, despite the high sed rate. Go figure! I am so sorry about your hubby being laid off as I was last year, it creates alot of stress! Anyway, all the best for a painfree summer!

[Author]

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