Weight Gain!!

[Patricia.Ann]

Hi everyone 🙂

Have been on steroids for well over two years now and have gained a LOT of weight. At least two stones and also have the classic moon face (although my ‘moon’ is a little reduced now my steroids are down to 10mg/7.5mg alternate days!!!). Instead of losing a little weight with this reduction I am actually putting it ON. Oh no, I feel so despondent.

My question is – can minocycline promote weight gain?? I have upped my dose to 100mg daily recently and changed the ‘brand’ from Aknemin to Acnamino. Could this be it do you think?? Also, I am not really feeling any benefit and have been taking mino now for six months – yikes!! Perhaps feel a little less brain fogged but that’s it. Still the same pain, swelling etc

Any thoughts or suggestions from you very kind people would be so welcome. This is not a good day 🙁

Love Patricia x

[lynnie_sydney]

Hi Patricia
Most people around here report losing weight – but that’s often connected to them going gluten-free and was certainly true in my case. The stroids (even though reduced) may be keeping your weight up, it may be a number of things, including hormnonsl changes, depending on your age. However, there was an interesting discussion a little while back regarding the use of antibiotics and weight gain – am posting a link to the thread below

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6757&hilit=weight+gain

If it were me, I’d consider going gluten-free for at least 3 months and see what effect that has on my symptoms and my weight.

In terms of you not seeing much difference, it may be time to look at varying the protocol. Are you being monitored by an AP Doc? Wonder if the addition of Clindamycin might be worth discussing – it is often used to ‘jump start’ response when there is severe or longstanding disease. This article from the main site includes this. See link below:

https://www.roadback.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/education.display/display_id/122.html

This one from our main site covers people who plateu or who dont respond, which may be of interest to you

https://www.roadback.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=education.display&display_id=131

Finally, have you considered being tested for Lyme Disease? That may be a next step that I’d consider.

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[Patricia.Ann]

Thank you so very much Lynnie for your extensive reply 🙂 I appreciate the time you have spent doing that. It is very interesting reading.

I am not seeing an AP Doc. My rheumatologist is prescribing for me. He is a nice chap but definitely wouldn’t be persuaded to prescribe anything more for me along the antibiotic route 🙁 My own GP would not go against the rheumatologist so I must re-assess. I would love to go to the Breakspeare Clinic but that is just out of our budget. I am seeing a Naturopath who is well renowned and I do trust him completely. He has told me to cut out pork, chocolate and all citrus.

My gut instinct tells me this weight gain is down to the minocycline. The steroids have really ‘helped’ me gain weight but this is an add on. It is ‘congregating’ around my tummy (as the link mentioned) – yuk. Not pretty!!!! Not healthy. I have gained much more weight in the last couple of months since upping the dose and changing to another type. This one is modified release. Both types I have taken have been pelleted.

More importantly than that though is the mino doesn’t seem to be touching the illness. No herxing, no real improvement, so I will take your valued advice on board Lynnie and see what else I can do.

Heartfelt thanks

Patricia x

[ablegirl]

Patricia,

Hi, I’m a fellow UKer. This is my opinion only but I felt I wanted to offer it to you even though it may not be popular or what you want to hear. I do not think you can expect any healing whilst you are taking steroids, especially at the high dose you are on. I think for your RA and also your general health you must consider getting off this medication. As you have been on it a long time you must definitely wean yourself off very, very slowly. It could take you as long as a year to come off or longer. The side effects on your health from this medication are vast not too mention its effect on RA and the aftermath felt when you will eventually have to come off. I think that the effects or benefits from taking the mino cannot be felt whilst on such a high dose of steroid. I do not think any sort of healing can take place whilst on this medication. Sorry to be so blunt but I believe this to be true and knowing and how horrendous this disease can be, I feel the need to talk bluntly. I only wish you health.

I have been on minocycline now for 9 months and it has revolutionized my condition and I was in a very bad way so this therapy definitely works and I am sure will work for you too but you need to help your body to and I don’t think steroids are helping you. In the short term yes, but the long term, I don’t think so. I actually took steroids for 6 wks, once I stopped I lost a lot of weight due to drug induced flare, I stopped steroids dead, not a good move, never do this. I have actually started to now put some flesh on my very slim frame which has only happened since the inflammation has started to recede, thanks to AP.
I think you will loose a lot of weight as you start to wean off steroids. I have been to the Breakspear Hospital and have travelled the world in search of a cure and visited physcians to kings but can tell you on-one has a definitive answer but you learn alot along the way and I can tell you that you can do a lot to heal yourself from home, money will not necessarily improve your outcome.

I wish you well on your way to iproved health.

[Maz]

@Patricia.Ann wrote:

My gut instinct tells me this weight gain is down to the minocycline. The steroids have really ‘helped’ me gain weight but this is an add on. It is ‘congregating’ around my tummy (as the link mentioned) – yuk. Not pretty!!!! Not healthy. I have gained much more weight in the last couple of months since upping the dose and changing to another type. This one is modified release. Both types I have taken have been pelleted.

More importantly than that though is the mino doesn’t seem to be touching the illness. No herxing, no real improvement, so I will take your valued advice on board Lynnie and see what else I can do.

Patricia, I have a further fellow patient thought for you and would suggest that your ND would be the best doc to check this through. Adrenal fatigue can cause high cortisol levels and this would lead to belly fat. I have had a similar issue of late and discovered that it is all due to very high cortisol, the product of the chronic stress that long-term illness has placed upon my adrenals. I am now taking adrenal supports and it’s making all the difference. High cortisol levels are immune-suppressive and this has likely also delayed my progress on abx therapy. In fact, my doc who is treating this warned me that as we treat my adrenals I will likely herx again. The tests he ran were AM, midday, early evening and late evening saliva cortisol levels. It’s important to check each time, as cortisol fluctuates throughout the day. The standard 24 hour urine collection tests don’t show this as it’s just a measure of total cortisol and not what is going on at certain points in the day. In my case, my early morning cortisol was very high.

http://stress.about.com/od/stresshealth/a/cortisol.htm

Long-term steroid use can also lead to high cortisol levels, as you know, which can also shut down adrenals. When weaning off prednisone, this can lead to adrenal insufficiency. Dropping the dose too quickly can cause drug rebound, which may be what you’re experiencing….e.g. 10mg one day and 7.5mg the next may be too great a drop. This would make it appear as if the minocycline is not working, as spikes in inflammation from flaring would occur. Until you are off the pred and any other immune-suppressive meds completely, you will likely not get a perfectly accurate picture of how your body is responding to minocycline.

I hope something here may help further in your researches, Patricia.

[Patricia.Ann]

Hi Ablegirl and Maz 🙂

How can I thank you enough for taking the time to reply. I am so grateful.

Ablegirl and fellow uker 😉 I appreciate your ‘bluntness’ and do not take offence at all. I understand you are on ‘my side’ and trying to help having experienced the same. This illness is tough and sometimes tough talk is needed. In the last couple of months I have found my naturopath J de V. He is wonderful with a boatload of experience. I feel he is very genuine and working ‘with me’ not against me. He has told me I am very sick (It is sometimes good for us to hear it from someone so knowledgeable!) and that he will try his very best to help me.

I needed the steroids desperately two years ago. I was completely bedridden and in excruciating pain unable to move. It took me months and months to be able to function at even a basic level. I tried two dmards and they made me even more sick. Then I began to research…. Came across this wonderful site and began my roadback journey. In the last year I have weaned from 30mg to 10mg prednisolone. I am now reducing again and I wholeheartedly agree it will take me at least another year to get off them and it will be a bumpy journey. My pain and inflammation is bubbling just underneath the surface all the time – the steroids have never taken it away completely and I still only function on a very basic level. I am functioning with a third of the dose though. However, your thoughts have really made me sit up and listen and made me even more determined to get off them. You know I just hadn’t given it a thought that it could be the steroids causing the problem and not allowing the mino to work. There it was staring me in the face and I didn’t see it, not sure why! Thank you for pointing this out to me. The reducing frightens me though because this illness is a huge monster and mine is waiting to spring at anytime!!!! Did you take pain relief to help with your pain??? I will need to take more oramorph I think as I reduce pred until the mino and my supplements kick in. I shall be relying more on my naturopath than rheumatologist I know. My rheumy will definitely want me to go on the biologics if he sees the mino ‘not working’. He may even discharge me if I don’t ‘tow the line’.

It is interesting to hear that you have been to Breakspear and have visited various people on your journey to wellness and it is comforting to know that in your experience a lot can be done from home to heal – thank you for that. I am trying to work on diet. I am interested in the paleo diet. A lot of people seem to do well on this. I am not a great meat eater though but chicken and fish are okey doke!!! Could you share what you have found helpful?? I know we are all different….

Heartfelt thanks Ablegirl for your caring thoughts.

Maz – I think you may also be spot on here. I have long felt, even before my illness really took hold, that I had adrenal burn out. I didn’t realise this at the time but only after researching later. I was under a huge amount of stress looking after my mum with Alzheimers for ten years and then counteracting this with huge amounts of high impact aerobics, and being in my late forties into my fifties this was not a good thing to do!!!! I am now 57. On top of that being put on steroids has just made things worse but I guess there was nothing else at the time the docs could do, I was in such a state healthwise.

Your experience with high cortisol, although not good for you, is kind of comforting for me!!! It has enabled me to refocus and realise that the steroid reduction is definitely the way to keep going and that I must try not to give up and ‘give in’ to the cries of my liver consultant (he definitely wants me on the biologics) and my rheumy (who eventually will) until I can at least see what my body does when off the steroids.

I wrote to Dr S when the mino MWF was not ‘doing’ anything and he suggested to up to 100mg Bid everyday. I am on 100mg everyday at the mo and it is my thought to stay at this now until I have got my steroids sorted. Do you have any thoughts about this that could help me?? Or do you think another email to Dr S would help? I could ask my naturopath but not really sure if he feels the mino is good either. He hasn’t suggested I come off it, nor would he for the moment, but I am certain if I asked him he wouldn’t want me to increase it either. How would you tackle this if it were you??

I do understand what you have both given me are thoughts from your own experiences and at the end of the day everything is my decision. You are both absolute gems and have helped me enormously, not only for my physical illness ,but emotionally too because I was really beginning to struggle 😎

Heartfelt love Patricia x

[Trudi]

@Maz wrote:

I am now taking adrenal supports and it’s making all the difference. …The tests he ran were AM, midday, early evening and late evening saliva cortisol levels.

Hi Maz–
Interesting that you should post this today. I have a saliva kit and was planning on doing it today. I’m actually the one that pushed for it, but am waffling now as to the necessity. My thinking is to treat and if getting better, that must be one of the players. So, what type of adrenal support does your doctor have you on?

Take care,
Trudi

Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

[ablegirl]

Hi, Patricia

Glad I didn’t upset you. I know its not very nice when you are taking a medication and someone points out that it is doing you harm. I understand the horrors of the pain and this too can be very bad for your health, not being able to move etc. So no judgement, just want to see a fellow sufferer find a level of wellness. I am so glad you are seeing Jan der Vries, I wouldn’t have thought you could find someone more knowledgeable to advise you, I expect you have read his book on arthritis. If I was you I would carry on with the mino and start to wean the prednisolone working very hard on your diet. I do not think there is a particular diet really just as natural as possible. There is a book written by Pavlo airola which is very interesting. If I were you I would set myself goals, maybe aim to be down to 5/6mg of steroid by christmas with the aim of reviewing things again then. I doubt it will be easy but I would think you need to make a start.

Wishing you improved health.

[lynnie_sydney]

Patricia – re the coming of the prednisolone
if you use the search box at the top of the front page of General Discussion and type in ‘weaning pred’ alot of very interesting past discussion on this will come up from various people’s expereince as to how they have successfully done this. Last 5mg is the most challenging I believe and there have been some really intersting ways people have tapered this down

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[Maz]

@Patricia.Ann wrote:

Maz –
I wrote to Dr S when the mino MWF was not ‘doing’ anything and he suggested to up to 100mg Bid everyday. I am on 100mg everyday at the mo and it is my thought to stay at this now until I have got my steroids sorted. Do you have any thoughts about this that could help me?? Or do you think another email to Dr S would help? I could ask my naturopath but not really sure if he feels the mino is good either. He hasn’t suggested I come off it, nor would he for the moment, but I am certain if I asked him he wouldn’t want me to increase it either. How would you tackle this if it were you??

I do understand what you have both given me are thoughts from your own experiences and at the end of the day everything is my decision. You are both absolute gems and have helped me enormously, not only for my physical illness ,but emotionally too because I was really beginning to struggle 😎

Heartfelt love Patricia x

Hi Patricia,

Sorry to hear you’re feeling so low and alone in all this. It’s very hard for folk who are working with non-AP docs to navigate these early days, but it’s heartening to know you have a good ND who can at least provide help with supportive adjuncts.

In this regard, Dr. S. is the AP expert and the ND is the adjunctive supports expert, so in your situation I think I would stick with Dr. S’s advice in terms of AP, but would use my expert ND to assist with diet, hormonal balance, supps, and pain relief therapies which would be more in his area of expertise. In other words, I consult the experts for their opinion and advice as it pertains to their own particular field of interest and then make an informed decision for myself. 😉 If it helps in any way, lots of folks here in the US will build teams of docs to assist them in different areas along the journey to wellness and this isn’t unusual. What is optimal is finding a doc who can do it all and the closest fit to this that I have found for myself in an integrative physician.

If you think your adrenals may be fatigued, then your ND would likely be the best person to consult for testing and supportive therapies to help them regain balance and should also be able to guide you on slowly weaning your pred, as safely as possible with as little rebound as possible. They should also be able to help with natural pain relievers.

If you don’t think the minocycline at the current dose is helping (usually the 6 to 8 month mark on same dose is time to go back to the drawing board if no signs of improvement in labs/symptoms has occurred), then consulting Dr. S. would be the best course of action. In all honesty, though, I would not be aiming to change both mino dose and still be weaning prednisone simultaneously. I would want to be on a steady dose of mino and stable in terms of pain levels before weaning any more pred….but that is just my humble lay opinion. I’ve never used pred, so probably not the best person to ask about this. However, having seen lots of people struggle with it, I know how great the desire is to get off it. Some people prefer to get off the pred and exchange it for a biologic until they are stable and then slowly wean from the biologic, purely and simply because long-term use of pred can be so damaging. Lynnie’s idea to see if you can somehow add IV clindamycin is a great suggestion.

Patricia, can you share when you increased your dose to 100mg BID and if the dose was increased suddenly in one jump? If it was within the last few months, it’s possible you are still experiencing herxing from the increased dose as well as rebound from the steeps drop in pred. Usually, it’s not a good idea to try to do both things at once, as this can muddy the picture and leave one not knowing what is causing what.

Hi Trudi,

The adrenal supps my doc put me are:

Standard Process Adrenal (dessicated) 0850 – 2 tabs in AM and 1 tab at midday

http://www.standardprocess.com/display/StandardProcessCatalog.spi?ID=7:

Ortho Molecular Products Adapten-All – 2 caps in AM and 2 caps at midday

http://www.iherb.com/product-reviews/Ortho-Molecular-Products-Adapten-All-120-Capsules/20811/?p=1

I think testing is pretty critical in order to see if adrenals are low or high in cortisol as it can go either way. I don’t know what supps my doc may have used if cortisol was on the low side and was quite stunned to see how high my cortisol levels were running, especially in the AM. It’s been a pretty stressful year one way or another. Mind you, it also explains why I’m no morning person and function better at night.

All the best with your testing, Trudi. Is your kit thru ZRT labs?

[Patricia.Ann]

Ablegirl 🙂 I have indeed read J de V book on arthritis. He is such a nice man, very compassionate without being fussy! Very humble man and I do like him very much. There are a couple of books that I have found by Pavlo Airola so I will get those and focus on natural, healthy diet. I am sure I will feel better just by doing that. Thank you for helping me.

Lynnie 🙂 – I will make sure to look up about weaning pred because I know it will be so hard. When I started alternating my days I went into a rapid decline physically and emotionally. Things have improved slightly now and I am more back to my normal pain levels but emotionally I am still a bit unbalanced!!! Just not as positive as usual. Thank you for your support Lynnie.

Maz 🙂 – I wrote to Dr S in January after four months of AP, with absolutely no signs of change, and he suggested to me that he routinely puts all of his patients routinely on 100mg BID. I started in January gradually increasing the dose until I am where I am today taking 100 mg daily (not BID). I may dial it back a little. I did also start weaning pred, after my rheumatology appointment, in February. The 10mg/7.5mg was suggested by my rheumatologist – yikes! The increase in mino, before my reduction of pred, didn’t seem to do anything positive or negative to me. When I started to reduce the pred more symptoms came, physically and emotionally. Although still in a lot of pain it is my normal pain more or less. However, only a few short months ago I couldn’t have even thought about reducing pred so maybe the mino is trying to work in a very poorly body? I think you are absolutely right about staying at a stable level of mino and keeping pred as it is for now. I will definitely ‘take on board’ the different docs for different expertise. The brilliant thing about my ND is he trained as a pharmacist so knows all about the conventional drugs, and is happy to work hand in hand with conventional medicine when needed, until the body has what it needs to heal itself. He is fab. Does iridology and all sorts of things so I know I am in good hands with him. Perhaps I need to lean on him more really. I guess here in the UK we are of the mentality of the NHS where one size fits all and most of our conventional docs do not like the idea of us going to the alternative practioners!!! I have always erred on the side of alternative but I have previously been so fit and well and never really needed the kind of help I do now. Maz I can’t thank you enough for your kindness. You help so many people on this forum and I am sure you have such a busy life yourself with all your own health problems too. Maz is fab!!!

Warmest love to you all.

Patricia x

[Trudi]

@Maz wrote:

All the best with your testing, Trudi. Is your kit thru ZRT labs?

Hi Maz–
Thanks for all the information. My doctor uses DiagnosTechs.

I’m a little confused. I thought the coritsol is supposed to be high in the morning and lower at night so you can sleep? I would think that yours being high in the morning is good 😕 .

Did you have any problem getting enough saliva? Any advice on that? I may hold off until after Easter for this testing.

My husband has done work at Standard Process. He said you can eat off the floor it is so clean. My doctor took a tour of the facilities and there were huge restrictions and coverings required.

Take care,
Trudi

Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

[Maz]

@Trudi wrote:

I’m a little confused. I thought the coritsol is supposed to be high in the morning and lower at night so you can sleep? I would think that yours being high in the morning is good 😕 .

Did you have any problem getting enough saliva? Any advice on that? I may hold off until after Easter for this testing.

My husband has done work at Standard Process. He said you can eat off the floor it is so clean. My doctor took a tour of the facilities and there were huge restrictions and coverings required.

Trudi, thanks for confirming the manufacturer of this adrenal supp is a decent one. 😉

Yes, cortisol is supposed to be higher in the AM and then dips down throughout the day. However, in my case, it was above where it should be in the AM (double the upper range limit), which is akin to someone who has been on pred. In my case, I haven’t been on anything immune-suppressive, so this is befuddling and a little concerning, as it means my immune system hasn’t been working as optimally as I’d hoped. It’s also probably giving me a false reading on my TSH, which always runs on the low (within range) side, but with hypo symptoms. What this likely means is that I’m not using thyroid hormone effectively and my thyroid is working overtime to compensate. We’re hoping that by supporting my adrenals, we’ll get a more accurate read on my thyroid in a few months. It also means that as my adrenals normalize (hopefully), there will be breakthrough flaring/herxing as my immune system will be waking up.

No problem with saliva collection…the most challenging one to collect was first thing, as you can’t brush your teeth or eat anything prior to collection….can only swill mouth with water and have a drink of water prior to wet your whistle. I just put the tube on my nightstand and after getting up when I woke, just lay back down in bed for 20 mins to begin the collection. There’s no rush…just did it in my own sweet time. For the three other collections, I think it was 2 hours of no eating or drinking before each one, except for water. If not mailing same day, then it needs to be kept in fridge or frozen if waiting a few days to give back to doc to mail off. There were good instructions on the ZRT lab site:

http://www.zrtlab.com/zrt-in-the-news/collecting-a-saliva-sample-video.html

Hope this helps and all the best with the test…let us know how it goes for you. 🙂

[Maz]

@Patricia.Ann wrote:

I started in January gradually increasing the dose until I am where I am today taking 100 mg daily (not BID). I may dial it back a little. I did also start weaning pred, after my rheumatology appointment, in February. The 10mg/7.5mg was suggested by my rheumatologist – yikes! The increase in mino, before my reduction of pred, didn’t seem to do anything positive or negative to me. When I started to reduce the pred more symptoms came, physically and emotionally. Although still in a lot of pain it is my normal pain more or less. However, only a few short months ago I couldn’t have even thought about reducing pred so maybe the mino is trying to work in a very poorly body?

Hi Patricia,

My best guess is that this is what happened…too much change in protocol within a short time frame of only a month or two. In this sort of scenario, there will be herxing with the increased dose for up to several months and also breakthru flaring as the pred dose has been decreased in such a large jump on alternate days. Doing the alternate day thing seems to be the way to go with weaning pred, but it’s usually done in much smaller doses of 0.5mg

When folk start AP, they will usually work up to their daily dose and stick there for several months before attempting to slowly wean other drugs. Usually people will want to get rid of the pred first, but it has to be done in tiny, tiny increments, especially when someone has been on it for an extended period.

I have noticed that Dr. S. seems to put everyone on the 100mg BID dose right from the outset, but very often those who aren’t on any form of immune-suppression and just starting out find they have to dial this dose back. There is some rationale in doing it this way, as explained somewhere on the main site…to break through that antigen/antibody barrier with a zap. However, if a particular person can’t tolerate this high dose, they’re usually dialing it back within a couple weeks. Those who can tolerate it, will stick with it. I was one of those who couldn’t deal with daily dosing right away when I began mino, even though I’d been on daily high doses of tetracycline for the year before. It just has far superior tissue penetration than the other tetras and so folk can only tolerate less. Those, like you who are on other immune-suppressive drugs, will usually be able to tolerate the 100mg once daily or BID dosing schedule, though there may be some minor breakthrough herxing for several months until this settles down. That seems to be the general sort of pattern.

The main rule of thumb with AP, however, is to go “low and slow,” meaning don’t make more than one change (in dose or meds/supps) at a time until stability is reached…this can include introducing some new supps, too…e.g. bromelain, which can potentiate the action of abx further. When too much rebound or herxing gets in the mix, then a hypersensitivity situation can arise, meaning too much circulating antigen for the body to have to release….hence, increased inflam, which defeats the object as abx can’t penetrate inflamed, swollen tissues. There really isn’t a good deal of difference between flaring and herxing, as both are the result of antigen (bacterial toxins)…it’s just that flaring is caused by disease process and bugs releasing antigen randomly, whereas herxing is due to controlled abx bug killing and the toxins released as they become disabled and die. So, doing everything one can to detox during either scenario can really help the body to rid itself of these circulating antigens more swiftly, reducing free-radical damage and inflammation.

Hope that helps to explain a bit for you, Patricia.

[Trudi]

@Maz wrote:

However, in my case, it was above where it should be in the AM (double the upper range limit), which is akin to someone who has been on pred. In my case, I haven’t been on anything immune-suppressive, so this is befuddling and a little concerning, as it means my immune system hasn’t been working as optimally as I’d hoped….It also means that as my adrenals normalize (hopefully), there will be breakthrough flaring/herxing as my immune system will be waking up.

Hope this helps and all the best with the test…let us know how it goes for you. 🙂

Hi Maz–
Thanks for your explanation. I will surely let you know what my results are. Based on my symptoms, I would say I am low in cortisol–but we will see!!

I recently came across information indicating that antibiotics can suppress the immune system. As with all things, there is quite a lot of controversy out there; however, with your mentioning the high cortisol and immune-suppressive–I wonder if there could be a connection????? 😕

“Antibiotics are actually designed to help the immune system do its job, and it may even do that in the short term, but in the long term antibiotics actually suppress the immune system.“
http://www.articlesbase.com/medicine-articles/how-antibiotics-weaken-the-immune-system-288646.html

Take care,
Trudi

Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

[Author]

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