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Has anyone ever looked into the vegan diet program? I've been reading over at http://www.drmcdougall.com for a few days and a lot of it is very interesting..
This page is specifically about arthritis (RA): http://www.drmcdougall.com/res_arthritis.html
There are a number of things that stuck out to me..
“Arthritis is not a genetic disease, nor is it an inevitable part of growing older–there are causes for these joint afflictions, and they lie in our environment–our closest contact with our environment is our food. Some researchers believe rheumatoid arthritis did not exist anywhere in the world before 1800 (Arthritis Rheum 34:248, 1991). It is well documented that these forms of arthritis were once rare to nonexistent in rural populations of Asia and Africa (Chung Hua Nei Ko Tsa Chih 34:79, 1995; Arthritis Rheum 34:248, 1991). As recently as 1957, no case of rheumatoid arthritis could be found in Africa. That was a time when people in Africa followed diets based on grains and vegetables.“
http://www.drmcdougall.com/med_hot_arthritis.html
Take a read and post back what your thoughts are.. Most people on here are much smarter than me and I'd like to hear your take on it..
Tom
Hi, Funny you should ask this question…I have been online for the last couple hours researching different types of diets with RA as well. The vegan diet and the mediterranean were the ones that stood out as being the most helpful in decreasing inflammation. I'm sure it can't hurt to try! Hopefully someone out there has more to add or has had experience with this topic which can help both of us!:)
I'm pretty sure Susan tried it and I believe she said she felt considerable improvements from it.. I'm not sure if she stayed vegan or not.. Hopefully we get some more opinions!
The jury's still out for me. I've been eating about 90% vegetarian for about 6 months — no complaints. But my labs show I'm very anemic and low in all the B's, so the doctors are screaming EAT MEAT! Another conundrum in my life.
My ND really pushed meto have a vegan diet. 3 months later at a check up she told me I was also anemic and deficient in B vitamins now I just try to eat organic bison and organic chicken once a week and I have a couple of organic eggs a week too. I have really been slacking on the veggies lol. My skin involvement started after I stopped eating vegan (although I wonder if that was just the timing of everything and a coincidence). My ND says that ur bodies are not equipped to handle meat and cooked food (there are no enzymes in coked food as compared to raw). She says this is the cause of some diseases.
My ND really pushed meto have a vegan diet. 3 months later at a check up she told me I was also anemic and deficient in B vitamins now I just try to eat organic bison and organic chicken once a week and I have a couple of organic eggs a week too. I have really been slacking on the veggies lol. My skin involvement started after I stopped eating vegan (although I wonder if that was just the timing of everything and a coincidence). My ND says that ur bodies are not equipped to handle meat and cooked food (there are no enzymes in coked food as compared to raw). She says this is the cause of some diseases.
Vegan is a stricter form of vegetarianism where you consume absolutely no animal products (meat, eggs dairy etc). There are vegetarians that will have eggs and milk but thats it meat and animal wise.
Hi Jo;
I was an archeologist/paleoanthropologist that was stuck in a lab analysing everything and anything that came my way.Isaw a heck of a lot of osteoarthritis but never rheumatoid although I did hear of only a couple.It seems that it was quite rare.[user=851]tbird2340[/user] wrote:
As recently as 1957, no case of rheumatoid arthritis could be found in Africa. That was a time when people in Africa followed diets based on grains and vegetables.“
Hi TBird,
This is an interesting synchronicity, because I was just reading the Clark book, “Why Arthritis,” last night, and Clark commented that when examining the bones of peoples in Africa (specifically Sudan in his example), researchers found significant deposits of tetracycline in the bones. The tetracyclines have a high proclivity for attaching to calcium in the body, of which the highest concentrations are found in our bones.
Clark's conclusions are that the rich red African soils are loaded with a bacterium, streptomycetes, from which the tetracyclines are derived! Taking this a little further, a diet that consists largely of grains and vegetables grown in that soil would likely also bear some of these antibiotic properties and would naturally bear some protective properties. So, if the populations of Africa are ingesting 'nature's own' tetracyclines, as evidenced by deposits that have remained in skeletal remains, this may account for why some of the world's populations don't experience RA….at least not until their diets were sullied by a big ol' juicy Big Mac. 😉
I'm not sure where that leaves McDougall's diet, except that Clark's insights make very good sense. This book is very worth the read and, if anyone is thinking of obtaining a copy, please consider buying it from the Road Back. All monies from the sale of these books are going towards electronically archiving and preserving the life's work of Dr Harold Clark for researchers interested in pursuing further study of infectious causes for rheumatic diseases. Clark was the researcher who worked alongside Dr Brown and did so much in his own right to make AP available to us all. Here is the Amazon link to purchase this book – I'm cutting and pasting the relevant piece about this book from the Road Back's last eBulletin issue:
To place your order of Dr. Clark?s book, ?Why Arthritis?? please follow the Amazon Marketplace web link below. Although other vendors are selling used copies for less, the RBF listing is the lowest priced for a book in new condition. Simply scroll down through the prices until you reach the RBF offering at $18.95 (plus shipping).
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/093641751X/ref=dp_olp_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1221018822&sr=8-1
Peace, Maz
Guys if I may repeat something I have said quite often on this Board. Alot of the information out there is quite confusing because there is no one diet that is an RA diet. There are indeed some foods which have a tendency to provoke symptoms in people with RA – but it's not universal. Sometimes it's a case of a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. And different foods provoke sensitivities in different people. I have been advised to red eat meat at least 3 times a week, for instance, to ensure that I get sufficient iron in my (vastly changed) diet.
Salicylates, for instance, are generally indicated as bad for people who have a compromised gut – in many instances because they've been on pain medications in substantial quantities for a long time – and many, many anti-inflammatories are salicylate based – and in the case of aspirin, are pure salicylate. We are bombarded with salicylates in perfumed and coloured almost everything these days (skin and hair care, cleaning products, insecticides, perfumes, air fresheners etc etc etc.) Plus, the salicylate content of naturally growing fruits and veg has increased exponentially because of the way most are put into cold storage and then quickly ripened for supermarket sale. THere is no test for salicylate sensitivity. It has to be done on an experimental no/low salicylate diet for around 12 weeks, gradually adding back to 'challenge' inclusion. Most people with compromised guts are advised to keep to a low salicylate diet ongoing. And those on pain meds are advised to switch the anti-inflammatories to those that are not salicylate-based. eg diclofenac or simple paracetemol (its lack of salicylate is why it's advertised as 'gentle on the stomach').
Sulphites are also recognised as particularly bad for the gut – hence dried fruit is a no-no, plus all processed foods and even some apparently 'unprocessed'.
As with everything else, dietary changes are not a one-size-fits-all thing and it does take some work and inverstigation as to what our particular needs and no-no's are.
For those who are on an investigative path re all this, I'm pasting links to sulphites information (it lists foods for Australia and below that for the US) and once again, the link for salicylates. http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/factsheets/Factsulphites.htm
http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/factsheets/Factsalicylates2.htm
For those on a broader path, I'm also pasting a link below to the whole Food Intolerance Network. It has some stunning, sometimes surprising information in it. However, it's packed with information in lots of different places on the site. It was put together by someone who's recognised as the top food allergy/sensitivity dietician in Australia and who works at one of our top teaching hospitals. However, the website is sometimes difficult to navigate (not an expensively designed resource) so patience and alot of trawling around is required. However, it's a fabulous resource to keep checking into. Happy detecting! Lynnie
Be well! Lynnie
Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)[/color]Hi Lynnie–
At my last doctor's visit I was hooked up to a machine that is somewhat biofeedback–I believe the procedure is called digital health. The ND who administered it said that the body knows exactly what ails it and this machine identifies it. I asked him to check for salicylate acids–I was not sensitive to it.
It's an amazing little machine. I show that I have more problems with viruses vs. bacteria. I'm on a homeopathic medicine to detox from the viruses. The first dose I took had me in bed with fever and aches and pains–the nurse was quite pleased with my response :doh:–but I obviously will have to work up to the full dose. It also showed that my adrenal glands need help!! I'm sure that is why I felt so much better while I was on the hydrocortisone; however, Dr. M does not want me on it–he prefers using natural products.
I was a little skeptical as to how machines can figure out what is going on inside the body. Then I had a test at the hospital for my thyroid. A machine was able to detect how much iodine my thyroid absorbed over a period of time. Nothing internal–just a rod placed near the thyroid. Amazing the diagnostic tools that are now available.
Trudi
Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?
Yes Trudi – what I should have said is that there is no accepted medical test for salicylate sensitivity. My naturopath uses a machine similar to the one you described and I showed sensitivity to salicylates on that. Since reading up about it, I can see why. Lynnie
Be well! Lynnie
Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)Hi Tbird,
I did indeed do Dr. McDougall's vegan diet. It was the very first thing I did after being diagnosed RA. So, without any other contributing factor, I saw significant improvement in my inflammation and pain (I estimate approximately 50% improvement)just by switching to the vegan, low fat diet.
I remained on this diet for 4 mths. By then I had found a doctor to work with me on leaky gut, diet, heavy metals, etc. He identified the foods I am allergic to. I cut them out and added all the others back in, so I was no longer vegan.
Longterm, I do not really think vegan and lowfat are healthy diets. However, when the body was as inflammed as mine was, that diet was just what I needed and it did reduce my inflammation significantly. Vegetables and fruits are anti-inflammatory. Cruciferous vegetables aid the body in producing glutathione which detoxifies.
My current rheumy has me off red meat which is inflammatory. She has me supplementing B-12 and wants me mostly vegetarian to help my body detox. I must avoid all dairy and soy. I also avoid foods with nitrates, preservatives, additives like MSG. I eat mostly whole foods and avoid heavily processed foods. Diet continues to have a huge impact on my inflammation.
You are on the right track T-bird!
Susan
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