Thick blood?

[Nan – RA]

Hi… another question for members.  Upon getting your bloodwork done, do any of you also have thick blood?  I do.  I've just read an article on it and I quote:

“Thick blood may also be caused by the presence of harmful pathogens such as fungi, viruses, bacteria, and parasites. These pathogens can actually activate a coagulation response in the body as a way to avoid being attacked by the body?s immune system.¹ Soluble fibrin monomer (SFM), a clotting agent, lines the capillaries with fibrin making it impossible to transfer oxygen and nutrients to body tissues. A lack of oxygen and nutrients then creates an ideal environment for these pathogens to survive and cause illness. The blood must first be thinned to expose the pathogens before they can be eradicated.”

Everyday is a new learning (not to mention, confusing) experience!  Any thoughts?

Nan

 

[A Friend]

[user=65]Nan – RA[/user] wrote:

Hi… another question for members.  Upon getting your bloodwork done, do any of you also have thick blood?  I do.  I've just read an article on it and I quote…..

…..Everyday is a new learning (not to mention, confusing) experience!  Any thoughts?
Nan

Nan,

One of my AP physicians about 2000 was an MD and had his holistic MD as well.  He had lab tests done for me that showed hypercoagulation in three out of four parameters.  It was a mystery to my physician why it was not in all four.  Then it was decided that my having taken flaxseed oil combination daily for several years had kept the 4th parameter as it was.  I was discouraged from using the usual recommended drug to thin the blood (Heparin), and we tried a combination of enzymes. 

Some of us are more predisposed to this problem, I understand, than others.  At the time, I believe Hemex Labs was the lab of choice for having this testing done.  David Berg who heads that lab and a well known infectious disease specialist in Kansas City came to know each other at a meeting, and together did further good work on this problem and difficult to treat organisms that evolve.   At one time, on the Internet, there was a record of a meeting with questions and answers on this subject.  It may still be there. 

http://www.hemex.com is the general web site.  The area that shows Hypercoagulation tests is:  http://www.hemex.com/testmenus/coag_panels.html

Incidentally, I just looked at the APS – Anti Coag test on the last link above, and was reminded that people with immune diagnoses should be very careful about taking the OTC supplement Phosphotidylserine (PS).  I had read glowing comments about this supplement for all sorts of neurological, memory, etc. conditions, even by a renowned neurologist — I had never read any warnings or contraindications before.  Then I read a whole page in “The Detoxx Book for Physicians” by Patricia Kane, et al, that people with immune dysfunction should not take PS.  I had been off of AP for a couple of years and was going downhill, and my memory was nil, and decided to try it.  Had weird repercussions, but thought it was just me… not the PS.  It was only after I got the book and began reading that I saw in the first several pages a whole page on this subject.  Then I realized what had caused the reactions. I suggested to the manufacturer that a caution be put on it; however, they seemed very disinterested. 

By the way, Dr. Thomas Brown wrote that if we take such as ibuprofen 30 minutes before taking abx, the abx can better get to its target.  Some use Bromelain for this purpose when on AP.  In the MP protocol, Dr. M discourages this in favor of another OTC drug (Quercetin, I believe), but I believe his preference has to do with the MP type of protocol and the drugs involved. 

AF

[Maz]

Hi Nan,

In addition to AF's great info, you might like to read about the benefits of digestive enzymes for this – specifically serrapeptase and nattokinase.

American Nutrition has a good write-up about their product, “Neprinol.”  I've tried this product and it works well for pain, too, but is very expensive. I now use Doctor's Best Serrapeptase and Nattokinase from vitacost.com…much cheaper.

http://www.americannutrition.com/store/Neprinol300.html

Peace, Maz

[Donna RA]

A Friend,

Did you ever use the Heparin for blood thinning? or did the enzymes work?  I will be getting that testing done, and sent to the Hemex Lab. My Dr doesn't do the protocol as it is listed on that web site.   He doesn't use any pharmaceuticals, which makes me a little weary.  Curious to know about your experience with this testing and treatments, just in case that is my next opportunity.

Thanks,  Donna RA

[Cheryl F]

I learned about the hypercoagulation just after Jess began AP (from this BBoard).  So I talked to her doctor and we did the testing, but not Hemex.  The test came back on the high side, but not fully indicating the hypercoagulation. 

After I learned about this potential issue that impacts many of the issues we were dealing with (eg. Raynaud's) I recollected watching the blood flow into the bottles when Jess was having blood work over the prior six months.  It looked like thin pudding.  I had even mentioned this to the phlabotamist, and she said that it was much thicker than most.  That was before I learned about the hypercoagulation.

We undertook the use of Nattokinase and then shortly thereafter, Lumbrokinase, (which is simular to the Nattokinase).  Both of these are known to impact the fibrin in the blood, thus thinning the blood.  It made sense to me, so Jess took this regularly for several months.  She has not taken it for well over a year now.  The last time I watched her blood being drawn, it seemed completely normal as far as thickness.  She is not on any medication or supplement that is purported to do this, so somehow, the overall improvement that she has seen in her health from the AP must have effected the long term thickness of her blood.  That is unless Minocin also has blood thinning properties.

Cheryl

[A Friend]

[user=41]Donna RA[/user] wrote:

A Friend,

Did you ever use the Heparin for blood thinning? or did the enzymes work?  I will be getting that testing done, and sent to the Hemex Lab. My Dr doesn't do the protocol as it is listed on that web site.   He doesn't use any pharmaceuticals, which makes me a little weary.  Curious to know about your experience with this testing and treatments, just in case that is my next opportunity.

Thanks,  Donna RA

Donna, I never did use Heparin.  My physician actually preferred me to try using Bromelain for a while and I did.  However, this was about the time that I had begun having a respiratory problem (symptom was a tiny persistent cough that did not go away) and was found after about 8-9 months to be c. pneu. and that was when I was started on an additional pulsed med, Zithromax T-Th-Sat, along with Minocin M-W-F.  After about two months, my liver and body began having more adverse symptoms and finally rebelled big time.  I've written about this numerous times, about a horrendous sudden pain reaction that lasted several weeks.  I immediately got off AP and the Zith, and stayed off until about the end of 2006 — I now believe I should have rotated to something else temporarily, and then gotten right back on AP. 

Maz has mentioned some enzymes that have been favorably written about, and I'll also see what I can find on this subject.  Haven't pursued it much since early 2003.

Now, I am going to guess, simplistically,  why this happened to me — based on what I knew then and have learned since then: I had been on AP nearly 7 years and had done beautifuly.  Something happened after that period of time, and I became susceptible to the c. pneu. for which the Zithromax was added.  No doubt my body had become overly acidic (thickened blood allows the buildup of hidden organisms in a protected situation of the thickened blood), and this created an even more acid environment, causing an even more inadequate mineral situation for further detoxing — setting the stage for my liver to rebel because of this inability to detox the waste products of both these meds. Then the “lightening bolt”  pain occurred and stayed.  

I believe perhaps the thickened blood condition set the stage and provided the perfect protection for the organisms to multiply in this thickened, protective environment.  At that point in time, I probably was a good candidate for MP — and probably still am.  I am now working on the obvious extreme acidosis that developed, and many symptoms are being alleviated.  I have located an MP physician very near me, and am thinking when the time is right, I will give MP a trial.  It just may be that the Benicar in MP will allow Minocin to finish up the good work that was begun with AP.  What an education has been afforded me while trying to figure out my own (and others) daunting problems.  Now, remember, all of the above is just my best “guess” of what happened in my case, but I'm thinking it has to be pretty close to correct. 

Donna, I will look for any updated work of David Berg and Dr. Brewer in KC, et al.  I had the Q&A session with them and a large group in my e-mail files I lost with a PC crash last year.  Hopefully, I still have this also in Word.  I want to see if I can find any updated information on work involving hypercoagulation.  Will share what I find with you.  Also, am wanting to review some doubts I have about Heparin use.  Am thinking Patricia Kane, et al, have written some things about it that may make it contraindicated.  Not only that, let's check out the sources of Heparin these days — some weird information these days on origin of some drugs.   

Best to you,
AF

Addendum:  Donna, the following is a link that should give you (and us) lots of information about hypercoagulation and its involvement in a number of chronic illnesses, and about the use of Nattokinase to address hypercoagulation.  There is also a warning about the use of Heparin on page 11 in a short article by Patricia Kane, Ph.D., “Hypercoagulation & Heparin… A Second Look.”

http://www.allergyresearchgroup.com/pdfletters/ARGFocus_2003January_Nattokinase_revised.pdf

This is a newsletter, and probably will be easier to read, comprehend, and work with if it is printed.  I glanced over most of the pages and saw the work in this area addressed by David Berg, Patricia Kane and others — addressing most of the things mentioned in my two previous replies to you under this topic.  I believe this is a very important paper, and appears to cover the subject pretty thoroughly.   I've read most of it before, but now three years later, I'm realizing how important it can be to me, too. 

AF

[Donna RA]

Thanks AF,

I am glad you found that, very interesting.  I've used Nattokinase in the past, but did not do so with the intention of blood thinning.  Sounds like Natto along with some nutrient (I'm guessing Vit C?) is just as effective.  I'll be printing that off, and sharing that info w/Doc, although, since he doesn't use heparin, perhaps he already knows this, and hasn't shared that with me. 

Thanks once again, you always have such great information!

Donna RA  :blush:

[John McDonald]

There is quite a bit of stuff on the internet about live blood examination. The idea is that if something is wrong with your blood, e.g., lyme or CWD bacteria, then the cells will clump or explode or long filaments will come streaming out. There is a fellow, James S. who frequents the MP and Lyme bulletin boards who took a video of his own blood from his ear lobe, and videos of some sick friend's blood. TM edited that and combined it with some Dr. Andy Wright videos and presented as part of his Karolinska paper. It is kind of interesting to view this gook. Healthy blood isn't supposed to look anything like this.  I put a copy on a web site that I own here. You will need RealPlayer installed to watch it.

And here is a slide show of Andy Wright stills from his microscope here.

john

[Author]

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