Rhaumatoid arthritis triggerred by childbirth?

[Tintap]

There are some women I know who develop RA or something like it after each childbirth.
Thats what happened to me too. Wonder if there is a hormone connection?

These links seem to support the same

http://rheumatic.org/gloria.htm
http://www.arthritis-treatment-and-relief.com/joint-pain-related-to-post-partum.html

http://nydailynews.healthology.com/pain-management/article3852.htm
where it says
“No one knows exactly what causes rheumatoid arthritis, but a variety of factors, including genetics and hormones are suspected. The hormone link may explain why women have proven to be at a much higher risk for the disease. Research indicates that between one and three percent of all women may develop rheumatoid arthritis in their lifetime, and women comprise approximately 70 percent of all people with the disease. The hormone connection also appears likely because of studies which demonstrate that the disease seems to go into remission during pregnancy, and the symptoms tend to increase in intensity after the baby is born. Research has also found that the disease often develops in the year after giving birth.”

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1752722/
“To investigate the prediction of the postpartum onset of rheumatoid arthritis “

Any opinions are welcome

[shannonjoy]

Hi Tintap!
I developed Reactive Arthritis after my second baby was born, last July. It started about 6 weeks after delivery with a swollen toe which progressed over
the next 3 months to many joints and iritis. I have a history of recurrent Iritis
since March of 2001 and weird bladder problems from June 2001-June 2007.
The iritis came and went about every year and a half but always responded to streroids. Nothing else until after babe #2 was born. I was under a lot of stress at the time being a stay at home mom and starting a new photography business so I think that contributed.
I was diagnosed with Ankylosing Spondylosis in Dec of 2009 (although I insisted that it was Reactive Arthritis). It took 3 more visits and my complete insistence for the 3rd female rheumy to change my diagnosis to Reactive based on a rash on the soles of my feet which is only seen in Reactive Arthritis. She insisted (like the other two rheumy's) that I go on Enbrel immediately. She even went as far to warn me that if I didn't I would be in a wheelchair very soon and would not be able to take care of my boys! Wow-that was ballsy of her!

In the middle of all this, I went to see a wonderful Dr. down in SD who does nutritional analysis/muscle testing. He found the underlying cause of all of my symptoms to be a bacterial and viral infection. He put me on some nutritional supplements that get rid of infections and strengthen the immune system. It took three months for me to start feeling better. At my second appt with him the muscle testing showed that both my infections cleared but that I have bone damage as a result of the inflammation. He then started me on two nutritional supps that assist the body with healing and repairing bone damage. One of them is acutally made out of beef and beal bone DNA. It's very interesting stuff. He has treated many many patients with these autoimmune conditions with lots of success. After a few weeks on the newest supps, I started feeling markedly better and most of my symtoms (low back, r knuckles, r elbow and ankle pain was almost completely gone-as well as the swelling). While I was on the natural supps I also took Celebrex 400mg/day (max dose) and found relief with that.
Now I just take Ibuprofen or 100mg of Celebrex as needed. I have noticed that I do start feeling crappier right before my period so this does really seem like the flaring could be linked to hormones as well.

I have been in contact with Dr. S in Iowa and do plan to start AP if I do not reach a full remission by fall. The main symptom that continues to bother me is my feet-plantar facciitis.

I'm not sure why I went into this whole history for you. Mainly to let you know my story with my onset after birth and where I'm at now. It has been a long hard journey this past year but my two beautiful little boys, husband, mom and most importantly my faith and confidence in God's hand over this whole thing has gotten me through it.

I am thankful that I found this community of people and the information the Road Back has provided me. Take care.

[Maz]

Hi Shannojoy,

I think you might find the following past editions of the RBF eBulletin interesing in light of your run-in with ReA. It's a good job you didn't get bullied into taking Enbrel and, if you read the second eBulletin, there is info the palmar and sole rashes of ReA that are re-activated and made worse as a direct result result of immune-suppression with TNF medications.

https://www.roadback.org/EmailBlasts/ebulletin_spring09.html

https://www.roadback.org/EmailBlasts/ebulletin_summer09.html

One common genitourinary infection associated with reactive arthritis, Chlamydia trachomatis, may present with a psoriasiform rash on both palms and soles, called keratoderma blenorrhagicum, and may be confused with pustular psoriasis. Eruptions of this rash can occur when patients receive TNF-blocking agents that suppress the immune system and patients reacting in this way to immunosuppressive therapy have been, “…found to be positive for C trachomatis DNA in the affected skin.” Re-emergence of this rash with immunosuppressive therapy demonstrates the persistence of this infection.

Source: http://ard.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/67/8/1181

Have you come across the protocols for the chlamydias on the CPN website yet:

http://www.cpnhelp.org/treatment_protocols

Glad you're feeling a bit better in yourself with the measures you're taking. Certainly healing the gut is very important with ReAs and AS, but if you need to pursue any form of antibiotic therapy, it might help to look into the CPN protocols which are specifically designed for the chlamydias.

Also, here is a past discussion thread that may also provide some info for you re: recent antibiotic trials for ReA:

http://rbfbb.org/view_topic.php?id=3524&forum_id=1&highlight=taylor+florida

Peace, Maz

[shannonjoy]

Hi Maz! 🙂

Wow! Thanks so much for all the great info! I have browsed through all the articles and they look very promising especially with the study by Dr. Carter.
Do you or anyone know how they test for this Chlamydia related infection?
This is an STD type of thing right? I am pretty sure they always test for all those things when you are pregnant but maybe not? At my first visit, the Rheumy asked me if I had Chlamydia and I just said I didn't think so. But maybe there is some sort of test I should ask for? Well, this is all very very promising either way.
I am so relieved to be feeling so much better after taking the nutrition to treat the real underlying issues (multiple infections) but it is still and up and
down road as you all know.
Also, I am not familiar with the gut heal diet and need to look into that as well. It is also interesting to read about the keratoderma blenorrhagicum being worsened by TNF blockers. One more reason I will not be going down that road. I still have a little bit of those sores going on but they are just one or two on my foot at a time. They don't hurt so that is good. Did I read something that said they test those sores for Chlamydia?
Well, I must get going. My hubby and I are sucked into one of the old seasons of 24 right now. I must go watch Jack Bauer save the country now!
Happy 4th!

[Tintap]

Hi Shannon
        I am so glad you decided to share your story with me. It helps to know that there are other people who disease/pain levels get affected by hormonal changes.

As far as the iritis goes – I think there is some connection with Autoimmune diseases.
I remember having a bout of iritis immediately before my joint pains started – back in 2004.  Also my mother's mother and my mother's father all suffer from iritis ( which comes and goes).

I also have gone down the muscle testing route – I got a lot of NAET reatments done – and after doing the NAET treatment for hormones I really felt better for a long time. I also muscle tested weak to a slew of bacteria and mycoplasma and got NAET treatments for them too.

I am in contact with Dr S too – and will probably try to go for IV if things dont improve soon.

Cheers
Tintap

[A Friend]

[user=2406]Tintap[/user] wrote:

There are some women I know who develop RA or something like it after each childbirth.
Thats what happened to me too. Wonder if there is a hormone connection?

These links seem to support the same

http://rheumatic.org/gloria.htm
http://www.arthritis-treatment-and-relief.com/joint-pain-related-to-post-partum.html

http://nydailynews.healthology.com/pain-management/article3852.htm
where it says
“No one knows exactly what causes rheumatoid arthritis, but a variety of factors, including genetics and hormones are suspected. The hormone link may explain why women have proven to be at a much higher risk for the disease. Research indicates that between one and three percent of all women may develop rheumatoid arthritis in their lifetime, and women comprise approximately 70 percent of all people with the disease. The hormone connection also appears likely because of studies which demonstrate that the disease seems to go into remission during pregnancy, and the symptoms tend to increase in intensity after the baby is born. Research has also found that the disease often develops in the year after giving birth.”

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1752722/
“To investigate the prediction of the postpartum onset of rheumatoid arthritis “

Any opinions are welcome

 

Tintap, it is my understanding that the mother's mineral status can be very much involved in this condition, even moreso if she has had multiple pregnancies.  During the time she is carrying the baby, even if her nutrition status is not up to par, nutrients needed by the fetus take priority and will be taken from the mother for the baby, and she can become more drained.  Magnesium is usually very low (this deficiency is part of the pre-eclampsia problem that develops in some expectant mothers). 

 After delivery, these existing conditions can be further worsened when/if she does not get adequate rest, and if she is under a lot of stress (good and bad stress) further use up needed minerals, etc.  If both nutrition status and stress (all kinds) have taken a toll, this can also affect her hormone status.  Sometimes when these conditions exist after delivery, and if the new mother has developed a postpartum reaction, her periods can even fail to return.  I know of an instance of this where an experienced OB/GYN found it necessary to prescribe one of the strongest birth-control pills for several months for a young mother with several small children whose periods had not returned even after about a year from delivery; and this hormone treatment apparently got the hormones regulated back on track, her periods returned, and the patient got better and also felt much better.   Will try to find a link or two on this subject. 

Best to you,
AF  
[EDIT/LINKS ADDED HERE AT END OF POST… Tintap, from one of the references in your post above about arthritis developing after postpartum, and the rheumatologist's reference to Fibromyalgia and even Carpal Tunnel developing, there is older research that has worked for many (including my dau.) showing that carpal tunnel is related to B-vitamin deficiency, especially needed is B-6, but also taken along with a B-complex.  The Fibromyalgia (after nearly four years of researching) in my opinion is what I read one researcher declare it:  It is an acid disease (but none of our physicians ever seem to know this).  The links I pasted below may be even more relevant when viewed after reading the writing of the rheumatologist in one of your links above.  In the Seelig book references below, we can come to understand a great deal about minerals that play a big part in our puzzles — and the book shows us also how some of these can help our problems or cause them.  AF]

The following links are from an online book by one of the foremost magnesium researchers.  The book is searchable.  Just click on the first link below, and when it opens, type in the word “jacket” and any other word you may want to find. Jacket keeps your search inside the book.  Once the search finds a chapter, if you will click on the word “Edit” at the top-left of the screen, you will see “Find” drop down, and you can type in a word, etc. you want to find in the text.  (This is a real time-saver.) 
 
http://www.mgwater.com/Seelig/Magnesium-Deficiency-in-the-Pathogenesis-of-Disease/chapter8.shtml
 
 
http://www.mgwater.com/Seelig/Magnesium-Deficiency-in-the-Pathogenesis-of-Disease/chapter2.shtml
The Role of Magnesium in Normal and Abnormal Pregnancy

 

[reesak]

I believe it is absolutely connected to hormones.  I went off the pill a couple of years ago after being on it off and on between pregnancies – I was on it for over 20 years on and off – I went off of it because I was 41 and didn't want to take the risks of blood clots, etc.  Six months later, I started getting my symptoms of RA.  Now my PMS symptoms are much worse and my RA gets worse around that time. 

More research needs to go into this angle and a treatment developed from the information. 

ReesaK

[m.]

I suspect that higher levels of progesterone (during pregnancy) are anti-inflammatory, and contribute to the remission many women experience during pregnancy.

I also suspect that as we (women) age, and progesterone levels tumble, we are more likely to develop auto-immune diseases.

I don't think it's a coincidence that many women develop RA in mid-life in our pre-menopausal & menopausal years.

Just a thought/guess….

[Maz]

[user=2107]shannonjoy[/user] wrote:

Do you or anyone know how they test for this Chlamydia related infection?
This is an STD type of thing right? I am pretty sure they always test for all those things when you are pregnant but maybe not? At my first visit, the Rheumy asked me if I had Chlamydia and I just said I didn't think so. But maybe there is some sort of test I should ask for? Well, this is all very very promising either way.

Did I read something that said they test those sores for Chlamydia?

 

Hi Shannonjoy,

You can get tested through http://www.tarci.net, which are the labs Dr. Brown used. If you look under the services tab, it says:

[*]”The ARC also offers antibody testing for the different species of Chlamydia and other tests for autoimmune diseases.” [/*]
 

I believe you will need to call the lab and request a testing kit to be sent to you and then have your physician sign off on the lab req form to send back with your blood sample. Results are returned to ordering physician.

I am not 100% sure how accurate regular lab testing is for chronic chlamydias, but it is a question someone who is on the CPnhelp protocols here may be able to answer or you could post on http://www.cpnhelp.org  for other labs who provide accurate testing for chronic chlamydia infections. Acute infection testing may be very different from chronic infection testing and the same goes for the treatment of both states…for instance, the short-course of abx recommended by Mayo below would not be enough for someone with ReA (as per Taylor's trials). The chronic states of these infections morph and go deep into tissues and during latent states (or periods of immune suppression as during pregnancy), the chronic, latent form may not show up in labs. There is info at the following link on standard testing that is done:

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00021622.htm

There is more info on C. trachomatis here, but most conventional sites do not talk about the chronic state that can include ReAs, just the more common complications of this infection:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlamydia_trachomatis

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/chlamydia/DS00173

Partners will also need to be treated to prevent re-infection and passing of infection back and forth. Such an infection would definitely cause the “weird bladder problems” you mentioned you were experiencing from June 2001.

Yes, it did say in one of the articles above that the lesions of keratoderma blenorrhagicum can be biopsied to look for the organism. I would think a dermatologist might be the type of doc to do this.

Hope something here provides some leads for you, Shannon?

Peace, Maz

[m.]

Shannonjoy,

The Arthritis Research Center will test for the 4 pathogenic mycoplasma strains and the 2 pathogenic chlamydia strains. And strep.

http://www.tarci.net

[Maz]

[user=732]m.[/user] wrote:

I suspect that higher levels of progesterone (during pregnancy) are anti-inflammatory, and contribute to the remission many women experience during pregnancy.

I also suspect that as we (women) age, and progesterone levels tumble, we are more likely to develop auto-immune diseases.

I don't think it's a coincidence that many women develop RA in mid-life in our pre-menopausal & menopausal years.

Just a thought/guess….

Hi M,

My understanding is pretty limited about this, but as far as I know…during pregnancy, a hormone called, “human chorionic gonadotrophen” is released and this hormone repels the maternal immune system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_chorionic_gonadotropin

“Progesterone enriches the uterus with a thick lining of blood vessels and capillaries so that it can sustain the growing fetus. Due to its highly-negative charge, hCG may repel the immune cells of the mother, protecting the fetus during the first trimester. It has also been hypothesized that hCG may be a placental link for the development of local maternal immunotolerance. For example, hCG-treated endometrial cells induce an increase in T cell apoptosis (dissolution of T-cells). These results suggest that hCG may be a link in the development of peritrophoblastic immune tolerance, and may facilitate the trophoblast invasion, which is known to expedite fetal development in the endometrium.[3][/suP] It has also been suggested that hCG levels are linked to the severity of morning sickness in pregnant women.”

Ronsword may be able to tell you a bit more about this hormone (he has researched the cancer/microbe connection as is a medical writer), which has also been found in many types of cancer. HCG is the highly negatively charged and this hormone is thought to interfere with immune surveillance, which can then promote cancer growth.

Following the dots…and just surmise on my part, but during pregnancy, when the body naturally produces HCG to prevent fetal rejection, material immune surveillance is diminished and, during the period, rheumatic disease-causing microbes have free reign to build their colonies. When this hormone dips preciptitously, post-partum, along with all the other pregnancy hormones (which provide further steroidal immune-suppression), natural immune surveillance ramps up…and…voila….a post-partum flare, as the awakened immune system starts recognizing these chronic infections again. So my guess is that all hormones have some effect on rheumatic disease, but HCG would probably account for the lack of immune surveillance during pregnancy (and in many cancers).

Peace, Maz

[A Friend]

[user=2332]reesak[/user] wrote:

I believe it is absolutely connected to hormones.  I went off the pill a couple of years ago after being on it off and on between pregnancies – I was on it for over 20 years on and off – I went off of it because I was 41 and didn't want to take the risks of blood clots, etc.  Six months later, I started getting my symptoms of RA.  Now my PMS symptoms are much worse and my RA gets worse around that time. 

More research needs to go into this angle and a treatment developed from the information. 

ReesaK

ReesaK, Tintap, All…

ReesaK, it just could be that longterm hormone pill (birth control) had actually caused (even if unknown) fungus to develop in the body — and this can be related to the onset of chronic illness. 

I just opened my E-mail this morning, and Doug Kaufmann's monthly (free) newsletter amazingly featured articles on postpartum problems, fungus, Vitamin D, etc. … several I believe… and I also believe it would benefit all of us with chronic illness, to subscribe to this newsletter at least for a while, if necessary to get it and read it and the back issues.

(I thought it was pretty amazing that last night before retiring, I had just again  researched information related to this subject and posted it for Tintap).  I believe all of it ties in with this latest Doug Kaufmann newsletter.  My own history is checkered with what was written in the articles I'm referencing. 

Was about to send this by PM to Tintap, and will send them to ReesaK and anyone else who would like to have it. 

Pregnancy and postpartum problems,Fungal Disease, Low Vitamin D tests, Doug Kaufmann's Newsletter articles that caught my attention…….AF

<span style="font-size:2][The PM I'll paste gives the links to the article from which the excerpt comes, one of the articles in Doug Kaufmann's newsletter… I've been planning to get a copy of the referenced  Doug Kaufmann's books for some time, which address these problems in today's newsletter.  I believe since I am doing so well, and all my tests have improved greatly, that maybe I do not need supplementation of Vitamin D, but to work even harder to eliminate remaining residual fungal problems.  Am working on figuring this out, hopefully soon, before I decide to continue with D3 supplementation.  The reason I'm holding out is that new video/research from MP presented a month ago, states that it is the inflammation that apparently causes Vit D to be low (and whatever is causing the inflammation, in my opinion, MAY “allow” my Vit D to rise.][/size%;”>
 
 [excerpt pasted from end of newsletter article]

“There is considerable scientific evidence that vitamin D has a variety of effects on immune system function, which may enhance innate immunity and inhibit the development of autoimmunity.7 Low vitamin D levels have been associated with multiple sclerosis, Sjogren syndrome, rheumatoid arthritis and Crohn disease.4 Vitamin D has been used around the world to treat psoriasis.1”

 
[To subscribe to Doug Kaufmann's free newsletter, click on the following link.  I've known about Doug Kaufmann and his work a number of years, but only a year ago found him on a web site (he was on radio, then I lost him for years, and since that time he's been on TV via a satellite and I don't have access to this program).  Also, I heard him and a pediatric oncologist interviewed via a video link in the newsletter (oncologist has a track record of helping children and adults heal from cancer) speak at an annual health fair in my city last year.  Based on my own history and what I read in the newsletter, this work can be helpful. I learned prior to the health fair about Doug K's and Dr. T.S.'s both having written books on cancer and fungus, and they never knew each other until they learned about each other's book. (It is especially timely that I read this current newsletter article, as I've learned my Vit D level is exceptionally low.]:
 
To sign up for the free monthly newsletter…
http://knowthecause.com/Newsletter/tabid/66/Default.aspx[/size]


 
In one of the articles in today's Doug Kaufmann's newsletter, the author told a personal story about his wife, their pregnancy and serious problems, and how these were resolved.  The author is a medical professional who reports his work and learning about mold and fungus as it relates to postpartum problems. 

[shannonjoy]

Thanks everyone-
I will be researching this over the long weekend. We will be at my husbands parents so we will have lots of grandparents around playing with our little boys. This is always a nice break for mom and dad! 😉

Tintap, I'm glad we could connect here. What a great topic you posted! There seems to be a big connection here. After I started having joint symptoms in the fall, I googled “post-partum joint pain” and I found a discussion board chalk full of women with various joint problems. It was loaded with pages and pages of women who had been to their doctors with no answers. Some of them eventually reported that their joint pain went away (some after stopping nursing) and some went on to rheumatologists and other specialists. It was very interesting. I don't remember the link but it would probably pop up on google again. I will look this weekend.

That's interesting that you too had good luck with muscle testing. I had never even heard of it until I got connected with a woman in my town who had been diagnosed with AS 20 years ago. Somehow she got sent to this guy in SD who I am now seeing. He found her underlying problem and treated her with the nutrition. She got better within 3 months. Her spine was already fusing together by this time but with the nutrition it almost completely healed. She said she still has some fusion down by SI but she stays active and is now in her 60s with no symptoms. And since AS and ReA are in the same family of arthritis, I decided to give it try. So far, it seems to working. SLOWLY but surely. 🙂

Also, I am going to reconnect with Dr. S. and keep me in his radar in case I need to take these next steps.

Well, Happy 4th of July to all you who celebrate! Hopefully everyone has wonderful, peaceful weekends!

[Maz]

[user=2107]shannonjoy[/user] wrote:

After I started having joint symptoms in the fall, I googled “post-partum joint pain” and I found a discussion board chalk full of women with various joint problems. It was loaded with pages and pages of women who had been to their doctors with no answers. Some of them eventually reported that their joint pain went away (some after stopping nursing) and some went on to rheumatologists and other specialists.

Hi Shannonjoy,

In case it may be a point of interest, many women can experience post-partum thyroiditis, which largely go ignored, but can cause joint pain:

http://www.elaine-moore.com/MyArticles/SubclinicalOtherThyroidDisorders/PostpartumThyroiditis/tabid/197/Default.aspx

“Symptoms

Postpartum thyroiditis is usually diagnosed during the thyrotoxic phase of the disorder when thyroid hormone levels are elevated. Symptoms of hyperthyroidism can occur, including weight loss, depression, anxiety, nervousness, elevated heart rate, heat intolerance, headache, nausea, and palpitations. If diagnosis occurs during the hypothyroid phase of PPT, symptoms of hypothyroidism, such as weight gain, depression, constipation, and joint pain are more likely to occur.”

Peace, Maz

[Author]

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