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My rheumatologist is unusual in that she believes in infectious causes to RA. She was treating me integratively, that is using antibiotic combinations as well as identifying food allergies and giving supplements to boost my zinc, D, adrenals and other areas that testing revealed I am deficient.
She also placed me on methotrexate to stop additional joint damage while we go after the bugs. I was late in the treatment receiving the MTX and was doing very well until 3 mths of MTX. At that time she found swelling in all my joints which alarmed her. Since I was still painfree, it alarmed me too. We ran a DetoxiGenomic Profile which shows I have severe genetic defects in my ability to detox including my inability to detox antibiotics. She yanked me off everything except doxy 100mg MWF. That was in Jan. I am still doing very well with minor flares that I think are resulting from an increased detox program she has me own. The flares do not require pain meds nor stop me from daily life. I do, however, 😉 modulate my treatment to allow my body time to clear the accumulated toxins. I have learned through this disease that it is so much better to go slow and steady rather than fast and toughing out the pain.
Ok, so what does that have to do with Prolotherapy? My doctor has recently learned this technique for healing tendons, ligaments and cartilage and she wants to try it on my wrist (left wrist cartilage gone) before considering surgical fusion. I am sure she will be honing her skill on me which is ok by me if it will work. I don't want to spend the money for something that probably will not work.
I was aware of Prolotherapy as I had considered it years ago for my chronic stiff neck. I knew it healed ligaments but did not know about cartilage. So, I started reading up on it and while it does seem to be effective for healing and growing cartilage, some of what I can find says it is not effective for RA. The information either states that or says nothing at all about RA. I can find no support of it for RA. Of course I will be discussing this with my doctor, but wondered if anyone here has any knowledge about it?
Susan
Hi Susan,
I had a discussion with one of my Dr's a while back about this therapy. (for my neck too) He was against doing it for me, as I was actively in treatment for RA. I'll be interested in knowing if you try it, what the results are.
Thanks, Donna RA
[user=86]Susan Lyme/RA[/user] wrote:
I was aware of Prolotherapy as I had considered it years ago for my chronic stiff neck. I knew it healed ligaments but did not know about cartilage. So, I started reading up on it and while it does seem to be effective for healing and growing cartilage, some of what I can find says it is not effective for RA. The information either states that or says nothing at all about RA. I can find no support of it for RA. Of course I will be discussing this with my doctor, but wondered if anyone here has any knowledge about it?
Hiya Susan,
Thanks for sharing this interesting therapy with us. I hadn't heard of it before and did a little search of my own to see what it was about. Found this site:
http://www.prolotherapy.com/
“Prolotherapy uses a dextrose (sugar water) solution, which is injected into the ligament or tendon where it attaches to the bone. This causes a localized inflammation in these weak areas which then increases the blood supply and flow of nutrients and stimulates the tissue to repair itself.”As your rheumy is a believer in infectious causes, she might be able to elucidate on a question I would be anxious to know, if offered this treatment. That is,
“Is it possible that the sugar solution (injected directly into the ligaments/tendons attached to a joint) might be providing a ready food source for pathogens that are inhabiting collagen tissues in the locality of the injection site?”
The rationale for the treatment is sound in the case of injury…to increase inflammation and hence blood flow to stimulate healing. However, what if inflammation is increased in a joint that is already infected? Wouldn't an increase in inflammation prevent penetrance of your doxy to the joint?
Also, just wondering…have you ever thought to ask your doc if she'd ever considered trying intra-articular antibiotic shots or bee venom therapy, as Dr Brown discussed in the book? I've thought about asking my doc about intra-articular shots, but had so much to discuss at my last appt that I forgot to bring it up! :blush: He has espoused the value of bee venom shots, though, in Lyme Disease and said that they certainly seem to benefit many patients.
Please do share how you do if you choose this therapy. Would love to know more, as you discover more. Thanks, Susan.
Peace, Maz
Hi Maz,
I found that website too and was surprised to hear about sugar water. When I first learned of this therapy in 2001, I was told a saline solution is used. That makes more sense to me. If you injected sugar into my body anywhere, I am pretty certain that part of my body would think it had died and gone to heaven. 😀
I had the same thoughts too about creating inflammation near my joints. Seems all we ever do is try to prevent inflammation. LOL!
Well, it looks like I may be the test case for all of us here regarding prolotherapy. My doctor has done awfully good by me so far. I know she is working hard to learn so many new treatments and therapies. You know how difficult it is to eradicate chronic lyme and coinfections. I'm sure she will give me some sound reason for doing prolotherapy on my wrist.
Sometimes I daydream that she will say “Oh, didn't I tell you? Recent test results show you never really had RA. It was really just a bad dream and prolotherapy is going to make it all better.”
Well, a girl can dream, can't she?
Susan
Here is a website that states prolotherapy can aid in eliminating RA along with other care.
http://www.prolotherapy.org/article.asp?prolotherapy=237
My first ray of hope.
Susan
Hi Susan. I am a big supporter of prolotherapy. I go to a natural medicine M.D. in Oak Park IL, just outside of Chicago. I have had prolotherapy on both shoulders — it took 7 treatments and my shoulders are almost completely normal again. Now he is working on my right hand, where the thumb has become very weak.
Check out http://www.caringmedical.com. This doctor also agreed to prescribe minocycline for me if my rheumatologist would not. (Haven't had to take him up on that yet, but it's good to know the offer is there). He does food allergy testing and monitoring, as well as natural hormone monitoring and prescriptions. He also ordered the mycoplasma testing for me.
My son has had prolotherapy on his knee — he is a crazy athlete and had seriously injured his knee playing football and skiing — to the point that it dislocated just from planting his foot in softball. That knee is now better than new. Another son had very successful treatments for tennis elbow.
My husband is a physician and it was another physician colleague of his that introduced us to this therapy. It has been wonderful for me and my family. The solutions vary considerably — sometimes they are saline and growth hormone — it really depends on the issue, joints, other health conditions, etc.
You can contact me by email if you want to discuss this more offline. I would not dismiss this — it's a phenomenal treatment.
Bonnie
Bonnie Lou
RA 02/07,AP 10/07
Minocycline 200mg MWF; Plaquenil 100mg 3 days/week
Fish Oil, Ubiquinol, Turmeric, Vit C (2 grams) , MultiVit, Magnesium, Astaxanthin, D3 (5000), probiotics and a daily dose of yoga!Hi Susan,
Interesting site…thanks for posting. Also found it interesting that bloodwork after the sugar shots caused blood pH/alkalinity to decrease:
http://www.prolotherapy.org/prolotherapy/will_prolotherapy_affect_my_blood_tests.asp
“pH levels: Of interest, is that this patient showed a decrease in blood pH over time over each successive day. In our experience, we find that pain that is really severe often alkalinizes the blood, so in this case, it is probable that the person was getting pain relief and thus his subsequent blood pH levels would likely be back into the normal range after Prolotherapy.”
This is sort of counter-intuitive to lowered blood pH (acidosis) causing pain. 😕 I've been confused a few times today, so maybe it's just me!
Yes, would make more sense to use saline…nevertheless, do hope you get some relief from trying this and would love to hear your results!
Btw…I love your mental meanderings that the RA was all dream – great imagery for healing affirmations!
Peace, Maz
[user=61]bonnielou[/user] wrote:
Check out http://www.caringmedical.com. This doctor also agreed to prescribe minocycline for me if my rheumatologist would not. (Haven't had to take him up on that yet, but it's good to know the offer is there). He does food allergy testing and monitoring, as well as natural hormone monitoring and prescriptions. He also ordered the mycoplasma testing for me.
Bonnielou….that's fantastic news that this therapy has been so great for you! Do you know if this doc is already listed on the RBF AP doc list. If not, do you think he'd be willing to be listed?
How great that you're married to a physician! What type of doc is he?
Peace, Maz
Hi Maz — I bet he would be willing. I can ask him when I am there at the end of the month — my next appointment is May 30th.
My husband is an ophthamologist — he has been handy since I have him check my eyes regularly — as plaquenil is still a part of my treatment. He is a traditional doctor in many ways — but also very open to exploration and possibility. His friend, another ophthamologist tore his achilles tendon very badly — and was able to fully restore that tendon — Stuart felt it and could not believe how thick and strong it was. That was through prolotherapy.
You have to be careful with the RA — because, yes — the theory is that inflammation is the natural way that ligaments and tendons and cartilage heal. So you first have to get control of the undesirable inflammation before you can use prolotherapy. It's complicated. But it has definitely helped me. I could barely raise my arms before and many movements caused great pain. My orthopedist wanted to do cortisone and/or surgery. With the prolo I have been healed — now I am back in yoga. This is a good man and a good all around natural health clinic. I sent my boss there for a consultation because she had a torn rotator cuff — he told her he couldn't help her, she definitely needed surgery — and should come back later when he could help her heal. So I trust him — he won't work on you just for profit. That's a find.
I will check with him at the end of the month and let you know.
Bonnie
Bonnie Lou
RA 02/07,AP 10/07
Minocycline 200mg MWF; Plaquenil 100mg 3 days/week
Fish Oil, Ubiquinol, Turmeric, Vit C (2 grams) , MultiVit, Magnesium, Astaxanthin, D3 (5000), probiotics and a daily dose of yoga!Hi Bonnie,
Very kind of you to check with your doc about his willingness to be added to the RBF listing…could help a lot of others in your area. Also, just good to know there are docs who are actually open to alternatives, sincerely wanting to do the least invasive things to get their patients well. If he is willing, just drop Cheryl a PM and she'll get him on the list for sure! 🙂
I just found a doc in CT from the link you sent who does both prolotherapy and bee venom shots! Definitely something to consider for my knees. What kind of workup do they normally do for prolotherapy – bloodwork, x-rays, etc? Also, is the cost reasonable, as your doc mentions that Blue Cross doesn't cover prolotherapy. Thanks.
I was cringing as you described your shoulder pain :sick:, as that's exactly what I went through, too…the pain was sickening, as I couldn't extend my arms at all and had to hold them close to my body all the time…then, they just became frozen and had to go through all the PT for that. Shudder…thank goodness those days are gone for both of us!
How great that your hubby is an opthamologist and can keep close watch on your eyes! That's wonderful. I had to stop plaquenil after a few months, as I started to get aura migraines on it….jagged, flashing arcs and blurry spots…couldn't see faces. Was pretty scary at the time, as they came on without notice and couldn't have that when driving, etc. So, I stopped and thankfully haven't had any recurrance since. Other than this, I think it did help a bit with inflammation when it was really bad.
Thanks again!
Peace, Maz
Hi, Susan:
I have had prolotherapy several times. First on my neck and then on my lower back. The results were very good, albeit somewhat slow in coming.
The purpose of this very old therapy is to encourage new tendon attachments, generally.
The inflammatory mechanism is somewhat different than that involved in rheumatic diseases, so I did not worry about triggering new flares; I certainly would have known, but we are each different.
If RA is the result of molecular mimicry, like AS, the offending pathogens are almost never located directly at the sites of activity, but sometimes rather distant as in the case of iritis related to AS.
Good luck with it,
JohnThe prolotherapy is expensive. On caringmedical.com they display the general fees. There can be variations from that depending on your specific problem — but the estimates are close. If I had the cortisone and surgery on my shoulders it would have cost a lot more, but it would have been covered by insurance. The prolotherapy is generally not covered — but all out of pocket. But I knew it was safer and could actually heal me, rather than just reduce the pain temporarily. (sounds a little like AP, doesn't it?). It makes me sad that it's not an option for everyone.
The frozen shoulder is incredibly painful. I am also glad that is over. I stretch my shoulders every single day — I never want that to happen again.
The workup for prolotherapy varies. Most people go there as a last resort, and already have xrays and mri's and diagnoses. So most of his work is by clinical exam and review of those documents. In his book he calls it 'the jump test' — if he presses you in a certain location and you jump, he knows where the weakness is. Of course, the diagnostic tests are covered by insurance — but not the treatment. There is the ultimate irony.
Enjoy.
Bonnie
Bonnie Lou
RA 02/07,AP 10/07
Minocycline 200mg MWF; Plaquenil 100mg 3 days/week
Fish Oil, Ubiquinol, Turmeric, Vit C (2 grams) , MultiVit, Magnesium, Astaxanthin, D3 (5000), probiotics and a daily dose of yoga!Bonnie, thanks for sharing all your insights on this…greatly appreciated and can't wait to hear how Susan does on this therapy. Hope it's as great an outcome as you've experienced. 😀
Peace, Maz
Bonnielou said:
The prolotherapy is expensive.
Yep. Then it must be the just right treatment for me. I used to brag that I was a cheap wife. Not any more.
Thanks, Bonnielou, for your experience. You give me a very big ray of hope.
I will post my results.
Susan
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