Pain

[froggy]

Hi,

I started AP in mid June, 100mg every other day.  Did okay on that so increased in 2 weeks to everyday.  Herxed huge so backed off to 100mg MWF.  Then I added Sat.  SO now I am at 100mg MWF.  Two months ago I had an awful sinus infection and it took 3 rounds of abx to get rid of it.  I had a lot of pain durring that time, but I figured it was herxing.  The 3 weeks ago I was on a week of Flagyl.  Anyways I am hurting more and more everyday.  My shoulders, hips and ankles hurt and so do the muscles in my arms and legs.  Any idea why this might be happening 4 months later?  I really hurt and it is hard to work.  I teach elementary school.  Oh I have RA.  RF 571 and CCP >100.

Thanks

Froggy:shock:

 

[Maz]

Hi Froggy,

Really sorry to hear you're having this rough go of it. Sounds like you might be herxing from the flagyl that you recently took. Was there a reason you were put on it for just a week, like for some type of gut infection?

There is a doctor down in GA, Dr S, who actually pulses in Flagyl into his protocol and brought his own RA into remission. He often employs a combo of mino, flagyl and diflucan/nystatin with his RA patients. Could be that the flagyl was hitting something for pertinent for you in your pathogen pea soup and it might be worth checking into adding it in to your protocol in a low, pulsed dose. If you were on a high dose for that week, it may have been too much for you in terms of the herx you're experiencing, but nevertheless it could well have been hitting one of your RA offenders.

Another consideration is that candida may be a culprit, particularly as you were on 3 rounds of abx for the sinus infection.

You're 4 months into AP now, but this is still relatively early days and there will be bumps in the road for a while. If you're not working with a knowledgable AP physician and are within reach of GA, it might be a good time to see Dr S. His protocol may be worth having a go with.

Do hope you feel a bit better soon. I remember those early days very well and my numbers were remarkably similar to yours. I don't know how you're functioning as a teacher to little ones and I send you kudos!

Peace, Maz

[lauram]

You may want to go back to the MWF (and possibly Sat) and let things calm down. Adding and subtracting anything can cause herxes. You also may want to get on something for yeast.

Last year I dropped a couple things then added just one dose of abx and it caused a herx for several weeks.

Try detoxing with lemon/olive oil, peroxide baths and/ or benedryl (which will help with the histamine release of the dying organisms).

HTH

[Elijuh]

I think the Flagyl got you.  The herx sitch can hit you quite unexpectedly.  I think you may need to back down on the Mino and just give yourself time to assess.  Maz mentioned that she has heard of Flagyl is sometimes used for RA and I agree.  Several docs have suggested Flagyl for a friend of mine.  It is also used in Lyme which can mimick RA to an unbelievable degree.   In fact that is how Lyme was discovered.  Too many Jr. RA cases showed up suddenly IN Lyme, Connecticut.  Moms got suspicious.  Voila!  Chill on the Flagyl…for now anyway.

Blessings!

eli

[froggy]

 

Maz,

Yes, it was for an infection.  I just wasn't sure if it was a herx because it's been 2-3 weeks since I have been off of it and I hurt more nad more each day.  I didn't hurt this bad before AP.  i am about 10 hours from Doc S in Ga. and being a teacher in the great state of Fl I don't make enough to take the time off to drive or fly.  I should have stayed in CT:D! 

As far as the yeast I take diflucan, Allimax and a lot of probiotics!  I eat pretty decent so I don't think it is a yeast issue.

Froggy:dude:

[Maz]

[user=351]froggy[/user] wrote:

Yes, it was for an infection.  I just wasn't sure if it was a herx because it's been 2-3 weeks since I have been off of it and I hurt more nad more each day.  I didn't hurt this bad before AP.  i am about 10 hours from Doc S in Ga. and being a teacher in the great state of Fl I don't make enough to take the time off to drive or fly.  I should have stayed in CT:D! 

Hi Froggy,

I understand your dilemma. You might have said this already and forgive me if you have, but are you seeing a good AP Literate physician? If so, you might want to ask about pulsing in some flagyl….not a heavy-hitting dose like you probably just took, but just pulsing in a few days every few weeks. The reason I'm wondering about this is that if you are having this kind of rebound after coming off flagyl a couple weeks ago, then it stirred some sub-clinical issues up that might be worth investigating further. Unfortunately, herxing is good in the context of AP, just not huge amounts of herxing and you were likely on a heftier dose than would be used in standard AP.

My Lyme doc gauges his patient's progress by how much they're herxing. If herxing stops, he probes with a different antibiotic or protocol. Of course, in your situation, being a teacher and having young kids to care for every day, the idea of herxing is probably repugnant and you just want to get back some normalcy. That's understandable, in which case you might just want to see if you can stabilize things, first. Then, when summer vacation rolls around, you could do another “therapeutic probe” with the flagyl to see if you have the same reaction. Maybe a trip up to Dr S in GA wouldn't be outside the realms of possibility for you during vacation time, perhaps for a long weekend? He's a terrific AP doc and brought his own RA into remission, so it might be a worthwhile consideration.

I remember that Lyme was a consideration for you, because you lived in CT at one time. Flagyl is often used in Lyme as both a cyst-buster and an anti-protozoal for the coinfection, babesia.

Do hope you feel a bit better soon, Froggy!

Peace, Maz

 

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