MTHFR Gene, B vitamins & Mino

[cavalier]

I should add that the University of Maryland Medical Center has a list of drugs that deplete Folic acid aka B9. We already know about Methotrexate, but there is a list of 2 pages of meds.that can deplete folic acid. This could be why see a current thread about the heart warnings of Zithromax is they among other antibiotics deplete Folic acid. The other ABX are in addition to Macrolides is, Sulfa drugs, Cephalosporins, Penicillin derivatives, Quinolones, and Tetracycline derivatives. There are other classes such as NSAIDS, Salicylates, & Steroids inhalant, Topicals & Systemic. Potassium sparing diuretics such as Triametrene. H2 Ulcer medications & other classes as well.
I post this as I have feel that I have been on some of these med’s some of them for some time & it would have been a good thing to have known 1st if I have this gene or not 1st or to at least have been aware of the fact that these med’s could make me deficient for Folic Acid – & to know if I needed the L Methyl type of folic acid. As I have had the markers for this for some time but my doc just told me to take regular folic acid – which my labs never did change & I eat a good share of greens it is my mainstay, so I think there maybe more to this.

Best – Jill SD Lyme CPn Candida poss Bart Heavy Metals

[A Friend]

Jill replied to Cavalier:
@cavalier wrote:

My blood was taken today to get tested for the MTHFR gene the results may tell us if this is why i have trouble detoxing from metals. One thing leads to another – I have other markers to make me suspect I could have this genetic defect & so I brought them into my NP today who agrees with me I do have some of the markers & symptoms. So will see if ,& if so then I need to do some things to help. One is a high B12 level – this & High MCH & MCV which you would think high B12 is OK but according to Dr Lynch this could well mean I cant convert the B12 to the methyl form. & the other 2 indicate folate deficiency or high metals or sluggish metabolism……..
I was told by my doc to avoid Vit C & Magnesium for now as it makes the Lead Toxic & makes the body hold onto Lead……… – Jill

AF wrote to Jill about the comment from her doc just above:
I found the statement in the last sentence above very interesting, and wanted to know more about “avoiding Vit C & Magnesium for now as it makes the Lead Toxic & makes the body hold onto Lead.” So, I did several searches trying to find more on this subject. About the only thing I found on this subject was the following which I’m sharing — EDIT [as it seems to indicate just the opposite of what Jill’s doctor said — and am wondering if he shared with Jill any further comments]: (and hope you will educate us more as you get more information on the statement just above).

---

http://www.lead.org.au/fs/Fact_sheet-Nutrients_that_reduce_lead_poisoning_June_2010.pdf
Fact sheet: Nutrients that reduce lead poisoning
“By Robert J. Taylor, edited by Anne Roberts, photos by Catherine Sweeny.

This fact sheet is a summary of the article Nutrition to fight lead poisoning
(which includes a complete list of references).”
Which nutrients are important in fighting lead poisoning?

Thanks to all of you for educating us on this topic.

AF

[cavalier]

AF & All – I too had questions about this as I know Vit C is a mild Chelator & they use Magnesium in the EDTA Chelation IV’s & they also use Vit C in this Chelation too but not huge amt’s. This was told to me by the NP saying she that this was her understanding I should avoid these including my Meyers & all oral – which oral Vit C helps my histamine levels stay down so I hate to miss Vit C as I already was feeling it. I put a call into Dr Ca. in La. today who is the doctor who tested me for heavy metals & is the one who wrote the other for the Chelation for me to get it done up here in Tenn. What I wanted to hear was IF he shared this feeling too as Dr Ca. has 20 yr’s experience in doing Chelation where this advice I was told this was coming from here in TN who has NO experience yet in doing Chelation so I wondered if there was some misunderstanding.

Sure enuf there is a misunderstanding on the part of here in Tn. as to these vit’s. & minerals.

Dr Ca.’s nurse said no all of their patients get oral Vit C & if this flushes out the lead the EDTA Chelation will wisk it away – & she said absolutely no reason to stop the Magnesium or the Vit C both orally or by IV – she said she has no idea where here in Memphis they would have gotten that from – so I am going to pass this on to the NP who told me that they felt I should not take either til I am chelated that I am going to follow Dr Ca’s lead on this one as they have expertise & time in dealing with this. I am SO glad I pushed to get to the bottom of this that this was not their feeling if it was then I would have paid some more attention to it – but as I thought on this it just didn’t make sense to me at all & it didn’t to Dr Ca’s nurse either – so … I am getting back on the Vit C. & am glad to get this straightened out. As both Dr Ca & Dr K. both in La. both use Vit C in with their EDTA Chelation IV’s & neither doc told me I had to go off of Vit C. or Magnesium & both have seen my lead levels.
This is what didn’t make sense the one here must have read something but neither of the other 2 doc’s share this concern & both have 20 yr’s of doing Chelation for heavy metals & for other purposes/

The one thing AF your article shows is the tandem work of Folic acid this is what I am showing despite eating a lot of greens & in my multi’s to be deficient of in my blood work is folic acid – which is important for not just detox but for cardiovascular too. I used to take the L form for a while I cant remember if i was still deficient then or what – I sort of got hit with other distractions such as SD & Lyme that I sort of forgot about this . This is one of many reasons why i did this test I have a postiv family history& my own but also deficient in folic acid – & other markers maybe what is in part of all driving inflammation & can be linked to autoimmune as well as lack of detoxing due to methylation pathways not working well.

Sometimes it’s a good thing we question things had I just accepted this, I believe it would be been wrong.

The one other tidbit I listened too a video that Dr Lynch has on his FB page about vitamins & foods some of which can be toxic – he says that Green Coffee, Green Tea & to a lesser extent reg. Coffee all reduce methylation
I sometimes used to drink Green Tea thinking it was good for me. Passing this on.

Jill
SD Lyme CPn Candida poss Bart & heavy metals.

[Trudi]

…he says that Green Coffee, Green Tea & to a lesser extent reg. Coffee all reduce methylation

Hi Jill–

I just found out today that green or black tea can deplete folate levels by up to 40%–
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18551467

I will definitely have to keep this in mind since I do like my tea, but am homozygous for the MTHFR 1298 mutation. BTW, I’m glad you are getting tested–knowledge is power!!

Take care,
Trudi

Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

[Trudi]

@Trudi wrote:

…he says that Green Coffee, Green Tea & to a lesser extent reg. Coffee all reduce methylation

Hi Jill–

I just found out today that green or black tea can deplete folate levels by up to 40%–
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18551467

I will definitely have to keep this in mind since I do like my tea, but am homozygous for the MTHFR 1298 mutation. BTW, I’m glad you are getting tested–knowledge is power!!

I’m bumping my own post up since it’s not showing as the “last post” and I really think that it is important to know that green or black tea can deplete folate levels up to 40%–I just don’t want anyone to miss it 😉 . For me, all of my nutrients are critical for healing–just can’t spare any.

Take care,
Trudi

Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

[cavalier]

Thanks Trudi for this info. Wow I really like my tea as well – guess just water.
I will post the results from my test when I get the results be about 10 more bus. days still.

And yes knowledge is power. I hope once you got your results you were able to feel better.
best –
Jill

[ellie6]

I am very interested in learning more about gene testing. I saw a nutritionist last week and he mentioned it may be a good idea for me to have some gene testing done, specifically MTHFR. I’m wondering do I make an appt with a geneticist for this? Does insurance typically cover this?

[Trudi]

@ellie6 wrote:

I’m wondering do I make an appt with a geneticist for this? Does insurance typically cover this?

Hi Ellie–
My LLMD had the test run and it was covered by insurance for me, but only a portion. Now a days you can order these tests yourself–here is some info–http://mthfr.net/mthfr-testing-mthfr-test-kit/2012/01/25/. This entire website has a huge amount of information regarding this gene mutation.

Good luck,
Trudi

Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

[frenchmoxie]

23andme.com offers the MTHFR testing for only $99.00. https://www.23andme.com/store/cart/
I just sent my saliva sample in for the testing. It’s the cheapest I’ve found.

Dr. Amy Yasko also offers the testing, but it’s close to $500.00. Link is here: http://www.holisticheal.com/dna-methylation-pathway-test-kit.html

[cavalier]

Look back on the 2nd page on this thread Spectracell I mentioned is who did mine I am waiting the results – it was recommended as they do both types to test for – & cost as they took my insurance I posted the amt. there too. Was 30 or 35 bucks due to taking my insur. they may take yours they have a 800# to call them to check on that.

Jill

[A Friend]

@laylam_77 wrote:

Hi there,
Just reading your post and wanted to suggest reading the h-factor. It discusses homocysteine levels and how it is a direct relation to diseases. I have psoriasis and reading this book it helps you take a look at decreasing the inflammation in your body. I was recently diagnosed with MTHFR compound heterozygous mutation A1298C and C677T.

I decided to work on lowering my homocysteine levels. I am GF, DF, SY and have a very clean diet. I found the book the H-factor which helped me understand how high homocysteine levels mean high inflammation and the diseases they cause, how to lower with supplements. As I already know my high homocysteine is shown thru inflammation in my skin, psoriasis. Overall, my skin (psoriasis) is much better because my homocysteine levels were rechecked and the level is now 9.2. However, I think I am still missing a piece to the puzzle. The main supplements I read to lower your homocysteine levels are the following: 500 mg of TMG, 800 mcg of folic acid, 1000 mcg of vitamin B12, 250 mg of choline, 250 mg of inositol, 30 mg of zinc, and 100 mg of vitamin B6. I am taking all of these supplements plus Metanx, 5MTHF, methy b-12 shots, gluatthione. As i mentioned in the beginning my levels were 13.8 and have dropped to 9.2.

Maybe this will help with your piece of the puzzle.

Layla Bell

Layla Bell,

Sounds like you have been active in trying to learn what you need to know. I notice in your list just above that there doesn’t seem to be a complete Multiple B-Vitamin in your regimen. I’ve read that when raising some B vitamins intake to higher levels, other B vitamins may need to be supplemented. Riboflavin/B-2 seems to be one of those for some people; and besides a few obvious clues of deficiency in my own case, I later read that B-2 plays an important role in heart energy/ATP. I personally had experienced a disturbance in heart energy, and my cardiologist (first time seen, but active scientist with his father years ago testing CoQ10) ruled out angina, but testing revealed my CoQ10 levels were one-half of what was expected.

Later, with perseverance in searching for more information about B-2/Riboflavin Deficiency was how I came to know about B-2 also being connected to ATP/Heart Energy — and am pasting a link/excerpt below. B vitamins are multiple and seem all to have a role to play with other enzymes.

The following is an excerpt from an article found when searching for more information on Riboflavin

[cavalier]

Still waiting word of my results but I got this video that was done not long ago by Dr L. It explains that there is a good reason to have this gene checked if you have Thyroid disease take a look –
Thyroid disease & MTHFR gene defects – http://vimeo.com/70912282

Jill SD lyme CPn candida heavy metals & poss bart

[cavalier]

well one test I got back that I am glad this one was negative, for the MTHFR test.

Jill

[A Friend]

MJ,

You’ve been a busy girl, for sure. And I appreciate the education you and others are giving us on the MTHFR Gene. (I’ve noticed in the few other defective gene diagnoses I’ve read about, that the B Vitamins seem to take a “licking”… probably because when we become ill and overly acidic, it can always affect the good gut flora which makes our B vitamins, except when the unfriendly flora/bacteria take over and crowd it out … so, if our “gut” isn’t happy, it doesn’t/can’t make our B vitamins, and I learned from the Pauling and other research, that vitamins — and especially the B vitamins — serve as co-enzymes for many, many functions.

I also learned… way back in my illness, when my body was not well enough to be able to convert beta carotene to Vitamin A, I had begun having very black circles under my eyes, and my eyes became sensitive to light — sunshine and night car lights. I read in Dr. Wm Crook’s books about this inability, and he suggested taking Vitamin A-Emulsion drops sublingually to restore the needed Vitamin A. Dr. Crook was “right-on”, and in about 7 days, the blackness went away, and so did my sensitivity to sunlight and car lights. So, am thinking Suzy Cohen’s suggestion may be helpful for a similar reason.)

I’ve just received a newsletter from Suzy Cohen, America’s Pharmacist. It just showed up in my Inbox, but I remember she may have written articles for a newsletter I read regularly, but which evolved into a new-name newsletter.

I was very happy when Suzy Cohen America’s Pharmacist new newsletter appeared, for I remembered her as having GREAT information in her previous papers.

What just caught my eye — and thanks to you MJ — was because of your subject including the MTHFR Gene in it. What Suzy Cohen wrote was this, and I wanted to share it with you and others interested in this (I saw there is a discount on this from the person/manufacturer who usually never gives discounts) so if any of you order, you might mention it:

…A quote: [from Suzy Cohen RPh, America

[Symptomatic]

New here, so not sure if you guys are aware of the following resources (apologize in advance if this is repetitive info):

-The Phoenix Rising (ME/CFS) support site has *tons* of info on methyl cycle (and other) SNP. While I don’t have a diagnosis of ME/CFS (or of a rheumatic disease either for that matter – I don’t have a diagnosis at all!), I’ve found myself reading both that site and this over the past few years since I share symptoms/lab results/treatment plans with folks there and here.

-The genetic testing I did was offered by 23andMe, and was significantly less expensive ($99), and more thorough than the others mentioned in this thread. There is significant overlap with Yasko’s testing, but there are some SNP she tests for that 23andMe does not. The disadvantage with 23andMe is that no interpretation comes with the results, so there is some digging to be done, but there are tools available for that.

My MTHFR status is as follows:
C677T: +/-
P39P: -/-
A1298C: -/-

My homocysteine levels have always been fine.

I’m glad I read this thread though, as I’m on both Mino and Zith, and didn’t know until today that there were possible issues with tetracyclines and folate depletion. Will definitely have to look into that. I’ve done the HDRI methyl cycle testing, and although my “regular” folic acid is in-range, my RBC folic acid was low, RBC SAM3 was low, reduced glutathione was low, my folinic acid was low, 5-MTHF was low-normal, RBC SAH was high normal, and oxidized glutathione was high-normal. I had very few results solidly in range.

[Author]

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