Leaky Gut Syndrome and Altered Immunity

[Susan LymeRA]

http://www.mold-survivor.com/leaky_gut_syndrome.html

 
The folowing bit appeared to be a direct quote from the URL above, including the copyright line. Rather than risk a copyright violation we have elected to keep the link but to delete the copied material.

[Lynne G.SD]

This is exactly what happened to me.Could not get better or have AP work until these problems were fixed.Since 70% of people with chronic disease have celiac and don't know it one could presume that that 70% likely has leaky gut also.I only figured this out after 5 years on AP that did not help at all.   Lynne

[Michele]

Lynne,

Your links have been really valuable. Thanks. It was good to read Garth Nicholson's work. I noticed there used to be a Road Back Foundation newsletter. I wonder what happened to that?

How did you find the leaky gut? (Glad you did!)

Michele

[Rosemary Perth Aust.]

My leaky gut  was caused by bacteria most definitely and namely h. Pylori.  

I am on many antibiotics today and have been for years and my leaky gut has just healed, which I am thrilled about, after years of abx treatment, so I find the fact that he thinks it is antibiotics causing it a little strange. The bigest problem today is the fungal problems and yeast in bread vegemite promite and beer.   That plus the fact that a systemic antifungal has never been used with treatment in the past – also fungus from birth control pills, and antidepressants. Nystatin is wonderful but useless for a systemic problem which everyone must have by now. It is not misuse of abx that is the problem but lack of systemic antifungals causing the problems

I Overcame all my problems and allergies once I commenced treatment. However the recommended fungal treatment was not adequate. I eventually lost my memory.  It has been bad for years because of abx treatment since childhood. will never get rid of it but will do the best I can to keep it under control. seeing as I cannot stop the abx.  That means staying off yeast products including bread etc. Sad.

 

[Susan LymeRA]

Actually, every article I have ever read about Leaky Gut names abx as the #1 cause.  Stress and bad diet are #2 & 3. 

The abx kill the good bacteria allowing the bad bacterias and fungi to grow.  Candida Albicans actually eat holes into your lining of your intestinal wall causing the leaky gut.  Now bad bacterias, fungi, parasites and partially digested foods get into your body.  An antifungal is certainly one good way to kill the fungi.  Probiotics are the best way to replenish the good bacteria and diet is the way to keep the gut flora in balance.

H. Pylori flourishes when the gut flora gets out of balance.  I have had H. Pylori really bad and abx cleared it for me which pretty much stopped my RA symptoms.  I still have to eat a very careful diet though so I think my leaky gut is still healing.

Since you are have so many auto-immune disorders, how do you know your leaky gut is healed?  

I am still taking low dose doxy (dr switched me from minocin to doxy due to a lupus reaction to the mino) 100mg MWF, so we have not abandoned abx altogether.  But she stopped every other med I was on when my gene test revealed I cannot remove abx from my body.  NSAIDS either.  Thankfully, I no longer have pain requiring painkillers.

I honestly believe that healing my gut and clearing my body of the garbage that has collected from the leaky gut is why I am getting well.  Killing bacteria with the abx is part of clearing the body.  Lots and lots of doctor-directed detox too.  Ongoing for 2 yrs now.

Susan 

 

 

[A Friend]

Susan, Rosemary, Michele, All,

I believe all of the comments in your posts about abx and AP, etc., either “are” or “can be” true.  By the time most of us realize that we are chronically ill and can't seem to recover no matter what we have tried, that our immune system is “down and can't get up”  by itself. 

My own case, from the beginning, included two years of treatment for recurring sudden onsets of extreme flu-like symptoms (triggered by a simmering infection in a jaw, which was dx'd as TMJ) varied often each time this occurred.  It happened over two years with 15 Rx'es for 10-days of abx — which greatly helped but briefly, but this was not the way these abx should have been prescribed, I later learned.  Nor did the well-respected internist have any knowledge of the need for probiotics.  He just kept on prescribing the abx ALONE, as he had previously done.  My gut and body just got more and more overgrown with molds, fungus, candida, until I just knew from my extreme chronic fatigue that I wasn't going to make it. 

My internal wisdom told me I had to find another way.  Fortunately, there was a mother of a young daughter whom she had helped recover, and she had just put in a health store.  She rescued me by asking me to read Dr. Wm Crook's book, “Chronic Fatigue and the Yeast Connection.”  All of the information fit me like a glove.  Starting on Dr. Crook's program saved me…. but it takes a long time to correct and overcome such damage.  All of us patients are different. 

To shorten this response, from my own experience, I was thoroughly educated with a healthy respect for yeast/fungal overgrowth by the time I had a (silent) mold exposure in an apartment while building a home.  It knocked me on my ear after living there several months, and thought I was having a heart attack.  I was diagnosed with a rheumatic illness, labs pointed to RA.  Found Dr. Brown's book the same day I got my RA diagnosis.  Knew beyond a doubt that I needed Dr. Brown's type protocols (instead of the usual heavier drugs), and a few months later I was in Ida Grove and received the IVs and RX'es for pulsed, long-term, low-dose Minocin.  Four months later, I knew I had again turned a corner. 

Minocin may or may not be forever.  If our condition  is caught early, and one is young, it may not be necessary… some say this anyway.  However, my belief is that if our bodies and immune system have been damaged and we are in our later years, it can be harder to learn everything and do everything we need to know to get and  keep us in our best possible condition. 

I believe we harder-hit may have to do a balancing act and recognize that in chronic illness such as ours, we can need the low-dose, long-term abx to help our flagging immune systems address the unfriendly organisms — use of Minocin, etc. and a careful vigil to make sure we take probiotics  to replace the good flora wiped out along with the bad organisms, plus address candida/fungal overgrowth if indicated. 

Many of us have had our heads stuck in the sand and can be unaware, even refuse to believe, we may have fungal issues as part of our illness.  I further believe if our pH is out of balance and we are extremely acidic, then our bodies have much too much fungus in them.  Our refusal to curb our cravings (organisms direct these cravings according to knowledgeable scientists) further adds to this problem (myself included). 

An Italian oncologist in an hour-long interview has reported that cancer is fungus, and fungus is changes toward cancer.  He has been having amazing results with visualizing the fungus/cancer and infusing bicarbonate of soda into the white areas that are these — and says the organisms do not build up resistance to the B. soda.  Not all of us will develop diagnosable cancer, but nevertheless, activity going on in our cells in this direction can very actively be going on.  We need to educate ourselves on this, if we have not, and have a healthy respect for the truths that credible physicians and scientists have found.  Mainstream medicine has not been taught about this in med school; and the medicines available to us, that seem to be used and/or approved by FDA for these purposes, seem too rarely available.  Treatment that begins with physicians not trained in these areas, for myself, became problematic.  Therefore, I encourage patients to never cease reading, learning, collecting and printing information that you feel you need to know to become responsible and involved in decisions about your health recovery.  Trust me, our memories often cannot retain some of those most important sentences that may make a big difference on down the road. 

Also, it will be interesting to see the progress in these areas in even the next year or so, as I've been amazed just the last several years at the amount of important information being put “out there” for us, i.e. pH involved in important protocols, including the Klinghardt Protocols which also address mycotoxins; advances in AP and MP, and much, much more.  After about 16 years I was afraid we had hit a brick wall, and now I'm more believing than ever that many doctors and scientists and other healthcare professionals are working (seemingly in the background) to take us further on the road back to health.   

Good luck to all of you in your recovery. 

[Rosemary Perth Aust.]

I do not care how many articles state abx as the cause.  They have been wrong about a lot of things and it definitely without question was bacteria that caused mine. I have had to take 5 pancrease or Creon, (enzyme used for this condition) every time I ate anything for 10 years because I could not abosorb and did not have celiac disease.  I no longer need the Pancrease with food it is absolutely wonderful.  I would have died if I had to wait for it to heal before treatment. I know it has healed because I no longer have to do that. I used to get a gethering of a substance on my lower teeth which had to be cleaned off by the dentist and it is no longer gathering anymore that is how I know.  I am not losing weight either without the pancrease which is what happens.  If you can clear it up before you start that is fab but I would not recommend anyone hold off treatment just because of this information if they are suffering terribly. I do not believe in patients having to put up with what some of us have had to do to get help.  My problem was just way too long getting help, not from the lack of trying. Diet is essential for me also. It gets rough when you get treated the way I did for years. No one should have to leave their country to get help elsewhere these days.  I wish you well Susan with all the help you get here I am sure you will work it out what is best for you.  That is what I had to do. We are not all the same.

[Susan LymeRA]

Rosemary

You totally misunderstand the article.  Neither the article nor I have said not to take abx.  I am on the AP and have been since Feb 06.

I brought the article to this website because many people have leaky gut and do not know it.  They may have developed this from abx use in the past without probiotics and antifungals to offset the damage done by the abx.  They may have contracted a bacteria (which can happen because previous abx use upset the gut flora) such as H.Pylori which is aggravating the leaky gut.  They may have out of control yeast.

The leaky gut can also come from stress or bad diet or any combination of the three.

This is not a either take abx or heal your gut thread.  You can heal your gut while taking abx.  In fact, everytime doctors put us or our children on abx, they should simultaneously put us on probiotics.  If you are not on probiotics right now you are setting the stage for another bacterial infection in your gut.

Sorry to upset you.

Susan

 

 

[Time_of_my_Life]

This is all very interesting to me as I have thought from the beginning of my symptoms that this could be associated with leaky gut.  I definitely need to take more time to read up on this and what things can be done to correct it.

I am intereted in finding out what others on the board have done to change their diets.  What kind of foods are safe to eat?  I get overwhelmed with it all and usually end up saying I'll look into it later and that since I am new and just starting AP I need to focus on that first.  Well, I am ready to pursue the diet changes that may benefit my treatment.  I am just not sure where to start and that is where I get overwhelmed.

Any information that anyone can give me on special diets to aid in healing would be greatly appreciated.  What foods should I eat…what foods should I omit?  What other vitamins or supplements should I be taking besides probiotics? 

Thank you!

Lori

[A Friend]

Lori,

You may find it interesting (and maybe even very helpful) to get a copy of one of Dr. d'Adamo's (sp?) books, Eat Right for Your Blood Type or Cook Right for Your Type. 

For a number of years after hearing about this, we even had a support group program about this, I tended to disregard it, thinking I was on a very restricted and healthy diet.  Well, by the general guidelines, I was.  However, my body was telling me a different story — and it was right. 

Later, when everything came to a painful chronic time, I learned that my Blood Type A is known to be low in HCl (necessary to zap incoming viruses, germs, etc. in the oral entrance and to break down foods/protein to digest them and to absorb nutrients) and Type A needs to “virtually be a vegetarian.”  Add to this: my body makeup, the medications which are all acidic, all the organisms that moved into their favorite type acid environment and multiplied — created more acidic waste which is difficult to move out of the body and is actually recycled from the bowel unless trapped by fiber and expelled), with years of mycoplasma infection and a history of having had serious yeast/fungal overgrowth (resulting from standard western treatment for two years, without probiotics), I was so very acidic, everything was crashing. 

I had no choice but to get red meat and pork protein out of my diet.  I still get adequate amounts of protein through sources listed in the book for my blood type, the chronic pain has diminished 95%, and I believe I am on the right track.  Very important in all of this is my learning more about my low HCl and a recommended way to supplement this with HCL & Pepsin combination DURING each meal (unless only salad or fruit is eaten).  About your food choices, if you find yourself to also be very acidic, then you will probably benefit from choosing (for a time anyway) mostly  from the very alkaline foods listed under your Blood Type Diet.  One thing to remember, we didn't get this toxic in a short while, and I read about trying to get our body more alkaline that this can take a long time.  The recommended mineral, etc. supplements can help, I read, but it is the longterm healthy, more alkaline eating that is needed to repair this problem. 

 A near quote, but not the exact wording:  Illness cannot develop in a balanced pH/alkaline environment.  Wellness cannot be maintained  in an acidic environment. 

Good luck to you,

AF

[Time_of_my_Life]

Interesting stuff AF.  I too have A type blood.  I'm A+.  I will have to get the book and do some reading.  I have so much to learn that at times it can be mind boggling!  Not to mention confusing.  I know I must do it to gain optimal health.  My diet leaves much to be desired.  Change is on the horizon.  Thanks for your input!

Lori

[Susan LymeRA]

Getting the right diet can seem daunting and really is daunting when you think that we are all different, so one diet does not fit all.

If you are having inflamation issues, try a vegan diet http://www.drmcdougall.com.  I was inflamed in every joint when I was first diagnosed RA.  Research into causes of RA brought up Leaky Gut syndrome by Dr. McDougall and his article “Hope to Heal Arthritis”.

He is vegan and low fat.  He says “Try this diet for 2 weeks.  If you see significant improvement, LGS is your problem.”  He gives you all you need to know to start the diet on his website and free of charge.  Basically, vegan means no animal products of any kind.  That includes butter and eggs.  Cut out sugar (use Stevia instead). Cut out all processed foods and fried foods.  You are left with lean meats, veggies and fruits. 

Two weeks of this diet yielded amazing results for me.  Then again, I am just like AF.  I am A Blood Type which is mostly vegetarian.  However, every doctor I have spoken to has said “cut out red meat as it is known to cause inflamation. 

After seeing the positive results from the diet change, I found a doctor trained in nutrition.  He ran bloodtests to determine if I had food sensitivities.  I did.  Cutting these foods out of my diet made an even bigger jump in wellness. 

I did not have to remain vegan, but it is a very good place to start.  It has taken me awhile to find good recipes utilizing the foods I can eat.  I have plenty to eat but I sure miss some of the junk I used to love.  Occasionally, I will have a cheat night, but invariably, my joints will flare.

Healing your leaky gut takes time.  Clearing the body of all the garbage that “leaked” from the gut takes even longer.  It is a process.

As AF mentions, acidity has been an ongoing problem for me too. 

Susan

[lynnie_sydney]

My new AP doc has me on 3 abx (because she and the naturopath believe I have at least 3 pathogens to deal with). The doc says that some cant/wont go the dietary route and, if so, she tries to treat just with abx. However, she recommends a diet that is tailored to the individual to work on healing the leakyy gut that she believes everyone who has a chronic illness has. However, it's not a one-size-fits-all dietary regime. For instance, I have been told to eat red meat at least 3 times per week. Aside from that, I'm on no dairy, no wheat and gluten, salicylate elimination/reduction and no sulphur. It was the naturopath who tested me for sensitivities on this score. At intervals, I'll be tested and may add some things back. But for now, it's a strict one. One thing they both told me is to learn to really listen to my body…..it can be hours or days after eating something, but there'll usually be a reaction to something you're sensitive to. And that can be bloating, fatigue, increased joint pain etc.

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[A Friend]

Thanks to all of you for sharing your experience and wisdom on this subject, as I believe wide experiences on this subject will be helpful to more people. 

Recently, a grown grandchild of mine, out of college and working at a very exciting and demanding job, visited.  (He's been aware of my interests in this type research, because his mom brainstorms with me from time to time.)  As a young teenager, he was on tetracyclines for acne, which controlled it well, and now the skin thing is not an issue.  He was with us for two days.  Before dinner he told me he'd been experiencing some chronic gastro problems, no matter what he ate, and wondered if I had any ideas about it.  (His mom had shared with me that three of our grandchildren in that family are blood type A's.)  I had my bottle of HCl & Pepsin, and told him his problem might be because he had too little acid, rather than too much, and offered my capsules for him to try.  He did, and later told me he thought it had helped, and may should get some.  I emptied a good many of the capsules into a baggie.  

By e-mail later, he  wanted to know a good place in his large city to purchase these, and reported the supplements were really helping, and that he had changed his diet to more salads and vegetables — and that he had gained a few pounds he wanted to get rid of.  I shared with him that I'd read the body makes more fat cells in order to have a place to store acidic wastes, and that getting the pH balanced can assist in losing weight.  He even e-mailed a comment that he has liked the input about his issues.  I'm grateful, because I want him to know as much as he can about getting and staying well throughout his life, if possible. 

Like many of you, I worry about my children and now my grandchildren (in this fast-paced, stressful world of ours) developing the type problems we deal with since developing rheumatic illnesses. 

I am so grateful for this grandchild's respecting my input enough to ask questions about his problems — that I feel can be helped very much by what I have learned from the “giants” among us who have researched and offered information, especially about gut issues and keeping them healthy. 

Just wanted to share this little saga with you.  I intend not to overload him with information, but just to try to choose wisely when I do respond to his questions.  This is a link I quickly found and sent yesterday in response to his e-mail about weight gain and his problems, as it seemed to have a pretty good overview:  

http://www.candidasupport.org/candidaandph.html#BodypH

Best to you all,

AF

 

 

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