Leaky Gut and Antibiotics

[dixiegirl]

I can’t have dairy, and whey is out of the question. It is a dairy product. What causes my joint swelling is a reaction to the milk protein, and whey is just that–milk protein!

@Bumpy wrote:

…getting back to the leaky gut thing…..
Dixiegirl, I am really interested in your progress on AP, I think you started it about 5 days ago or so. I have scleroderma and like you have gone med free and focused mainly on healing my gut through nutrition (gluten, dairy, soy, caffeine and sugar free) and supplements (D, aloe Vera, probiotics, omega3, resveratol, glutamine and glutathione). I have made major strides in my overall pain and fatigue but have other bothersome symptoms that come with my condition and have been contemplating AP as a longer term ‘solution’. Please post more on your progress with AP and especially on your decision to try it.
Thanks for the posting!

I have made major strides as well in my progress with diet, low dose naltrexone, and low dose hydrocortizone (5-10 mg/day). My diet is HUGE. I can hardly walk if I eat oats, but I climbed a 4,000 foot mountain last month! I could hardly believe it actually happened–me climbing a mountain, after where I’ve been! I give all the praise to Jesus Christ!!
I decided to try AP because I still have swelling in multiple joints. It’s not much. I don’t have morning stiffness, like I used to. But nothing else is helping me any more and I can’t just sit and wait for my joints to rot away! I called my doc and he recommended AP to me–I also had done hours of research and was beginning to think that it might help my RA. I’m less scared of mino’s side effects than methotrexate’s side effects! So I started last week.
I have real leaky gut issues, and I get indigestion after every meal now, so i’m kinda concerned. I am hoping that more probiotics will help. Any advice anyone??
I haven’t had my symptoms worsen or improve yet. I’m hoping the herx doesn’t have to happen in everyone for the abx to help them…

[Anonymous]

Dixiegirl, I can say that if you’re five days in and haven’t had a herx rxn yet, you’ll probably be okay, (but who knows with our wacky bodies!), you’ve probably cleaned alot of the candida and bacterial overgrowth by following a gluten/dairy free diet. It’s one of the reasons I am so interested to see if the AP protocol works, I am wondering if it works for some people because they are not doing enough with their nutrition, but since your system is ‘clean’ will the antibiotics help? I sure hope so, there seems to be so many promising testimonials.
I’ll be waiting to hear how things go with the AP protocol,I too have a leaky gut but after 9 months on a strict diet (gluten, dairy, soy, caffeine free with limited yeast, sugar and other grains) am doing much better- it still suprises me, however, that even minor things can disrupt my balance.
For my gut I take l-glutamine, a product called ‘Repairvite’ by Apex energetics, I take magnesium citrate (to balance my stomach acidity and to help loosen my stool), and drink ginger tea and fresh lemon to help my liver deal with toxins and reduce inflammation. I also take a Glutathione product (helps wiht my energy) and a ton of Vitamin D!

[Krys]

@Kalinda wrote:

Does anyone know if whey is okay for people avoiding dairy? I tried powdered colostrum and had problems with the dairy content.

Hi Kalinda,
Welcome to RBF forum!
I have milk allergy. I’d say it is a strong one. I cannot take ImmunoPro daily. But if I take it 1-2 times a week, there are no reactions whatsoever.

All my autoimmune reactions to food greatly lessened when I intensely worked on Candida (diet does not heal it: it will come back as soon as you are off the diet), went gluten, dairy, corn free and raised my low body temperature.

At present if I totally avoid big food triggers (milk, gluten, corn) and rotate non-gluten starches, I don’t have any autoimmune reactions to food, including to ImmunoPro (still only 1-2 x a week).
I’m not talking you into taking it!
I really wanted to keep ImmunoPro in spite of milk allergy, so I’m bragging how I managed to do it.

@Kalinda wrote:

I also have issues with gut permeability and I am hesitant to start abx. Does anyone know if herbal treatments for Lyme cause less damage to gut flora?

I think you will have to work on the gut issues whether on abx or on herbal protocol.
Removing food allergies is the first step. I think it is crucial. Eating foods that promote healing of the gut lining is greatly helpful, probably crucial, too. I resonate with GAPS diet to achieve the best results, but it does take great dedication to follow it as prescribed!

I was on massive doses of herbs for RA for 8 months, then on abx for Lyme for 8 months and then I combined Buhner’s herbal protocol for Lyme with abx for full 8 months. At present I’m on abx only (7 months) and I still need treatment.
It is a very individual decision. Herbal treatment might be easier on the gut, but you will still need to work on healing the gut lining and take probiotics. Will the herbal Lyme treatment be enough? Nobody can answer that question. Abx ARE stronger, so it often happens that herbal treatment (as in: herbal only) is chosen by those who for whatever reason cannot take abx. Most of the herbs within Buhner’s protocol are organ protective (many are also Candida inhibitive) so the protocol might be easier to deal with and herx might be less massive. But there’s no guarantee.
No compliance is an issue with both abx and herbal protocol and is a major reason for lack of/ delayed progress. LLMDs who talk of compliance, mean more than abx or herbs (diet, sleep, detox + more is mentioned). Because you have to take herbs (I’m only familiar with Buhner’s protocol) in massive amounts 4x a day, with lemon juice or ACV, it is not easy to comply.
Even though I really like herbs in all combinations, they were not enough for me. It only means that my body needs more intense help, you may react differently.
Sorry that there are no clear answers!
Warm wishes, Krys
Krys

[A Friend]

Bumpy, Cavalier, Kalinda, Dixiegirl, Krys, All,

As I read the posts above, I recognize these questions as having been my own (now…and going back quite a number of years… especially about nondenatured whey protein.

It was emphasized back then, by Dr. Cheney’s use and research, that when patients begin using whey protein, because they are so depleted in glutathione (because in chronic illness we deplete it faster than the body can make it), they must begin use of this type whey in very small amounts — sometimes as little as a teaspoon. (You may all know that it can be put under the tongue and let dissolve.. and probably even a greater percent of the teaspoonful may be absorbed than mixed in liquid… I use almond milk routinely to stir in my whey protein). Because we may have such a toxin buildup, the glutathione (master detoxifier of our body) can cause a Herxheimer when first beginning.

After getting notice of Krys’ message this morning, and glancing over the other messages on this thread, I again tried to locate a link that addressed the use of whey protein by those who have (or thinks they have) a milk allergy. Some people, I’m sure, have allergies… I seem to remember this may be caused by the specific digestive enzyme that goes away after an infant no longer suckles milk from its mother and doesn’t need this enzyme to break down milk. But, might a reaction to whey protein use also be a reaction to glutathione detoxing toxins in our body — much like our bodies reacting when we begin AP and/or IVs???

What I isolated this morning is a good bit to post here — though I believe what was found might answer a number of questions for some of you who have posted above. So, I’ve decided to paste what I’ve assembled in a Word document on my PC…. but try to just post the links (and as little of my notes made as possible). If any of you have questions about any of it, I will try to get back with you. I will be unavailable (probably) to post more on this until the weekend. But, I believe the amino acids and the building of glutathione in our bodies is a huge part of our ability to heal our body. When we’ve been ill for some time, many/most of us may have lost our ability to adequately digest and extract the NECESSARY amino acid for our bodies to do the MANY functions needed. Also, along with this, many of us have genetically caused deficiencies of many vitamins (especially the B’s) needed for their enzymes to help split certain needed properties. There are many outstanding scientists who proved all of this beyond a doubt, but medicine as it has been practiced for years and years has “conveniently” ignored all of this information. And our physicians, many of them very dear to me, simply have not been taught, and in other ways have their hands tied.

Am posting this now… I’ve lost too many partial posts… and will come back and “Edit” and add the links.

---

http://phoenixrising.me/treating-cfs-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-me/treating-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-mecfs-glutathione-and-the-methylation-cycle/augmenting-glutathione-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-mecfs-by-rich-van-konynenburg/comment-page-1

EXCERPT:
Augmenting Glutathione in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS) by Rich Van Konynenburg
Augmenting Glutathione

There are several ways to augment one

[cavalier]

Agree with AF but just too tired to get into it all & busy as well in dealing with pressing matters- in regard to Whey – there’s a big difference between regular whey & undenatured and u can expect some herxing too which people can think of being intolerant.
Am glad someone else stepped forward to explain. sort of like taking AP for a bit & then feeling it d/n agree different reasons why that could be. LDN also causes a herx for some – depends on your disease &
where your body is at – complex –

Jill

[Anonymous]

Hey Friend, thanks so much for the thorough analysis. Ironically, I personally, didn’t even know about whey protein as a method of increasing Glutathione levels. I have only ever used a supplement. It is called ‘Glutathione Recycler (K57)’ made by Apex Energetics. 90 Capsules cost me $27 dollars and I take six a day (evenly spaced throughout the day) so about $3 per day, I buy mine through my nutritionist but assume you could find it online.

The key is that It is not a straight Glutathione supplement (as Friend says, the uptake of straight glutathione is probably low), instead it is a blend of Amino Acids and Herbs that stimulates our ability to increase our levels of Glutathione.(Cysteine, Lipoic Acid, Glutamine, Milk Thistle, Gotu Kola, Cordyceps and Selenium)

I swear by it, at a minimum I fully support the need to elevate our glutathione levels. I had been on a complete elimination diet and after six weeks still had not seen improvements until I started on the glutathione recycler- within days it was like a veil had lifted- 9 months later, I still credit it for my (mostly) sustained energy level.

Anyhow, if whey or similar allergies are an issue this might be something you could try as an alternative.

[Author]

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