Leaky Gut and Antibiotics

[Anonymous]

I have RA for four years and am following a standard treatment (Enbrel + MTX). It was working in the beginning, but not so much now (migrating pains, constant tiredness, troubles concentrating, occasional depression symptoms, etc.).

Therefore, I started looking into non-mainstream treatments and came across two:

1) AP by Dr. Brown.
2) Clearing food sensitivities (the book “Conquering Arthritis” by Barbara Allan, who had reactive arthritis / RA and got herself out of wheelchair by getting rid of food sensitivities).

By reading several books on AP and food sensitivities, I am contemplating on combining both treatments. It seems that bringing RA to the state of remission, one should get rid of both mycoplasma and food sensitivities. Healing the gut (curing leaky gut syndrome) is essential for the latter. However, antibiotics is one of the substances that actually cause leaky gut syndrome. An addition, a number of articles on the internet state that all RA patients have leaky gut and 95% have candida overgrowth (antibiotics do not help with keeping candida under control either).

Therefore, the question: are these two treatments mutually exclusive?

I cannot find any information on leaky gut in Henry Scammell

[lynnie_sydney]

Hi PRA – do you hv Palindromic RA by any chance?
I think the antibiotic involvement in Leaky Gut Synrome tends to be more aligned with the conventional way abx are used to treat acute infections.

My AP doc advises addressing both food sensitivites and pathogens. Food sensitivities are identified and a strict dietary regime advised. She also treats with combination abx in low doses and pulsed. It has worked well for me.You can read more about my experience by following links in my signature line, which also gives the dietary and abx regime I’m on (the latter changes as required).

I was originally dxd with PRA and, later, found to have Lyme and CPn in my pathogen load. I believe there are alot more triggers/chronic infections implicated in rheumatoid disease than just mycoplasmae. Likewise, the gut health/sensitivities aspects of chronic illness (and no one yet knows whether these are cause or effect) have gained alot more traction in recent years.

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[dixiegirl]

I have leaky gut and allergies. I changed my diet and it cut out 90% of my RA symptoms.
I was afraid to start the AP because of the leaky gut connection, but I started (after 1 1/2 years of debate) yesterday! So… probiotics will be my best friend and I hope nothing bad happens…
All I can say it that diet can violently affect my RA, and I’ve met several other people who have made the same connection. Hope diet change helps you– try gluten and dairy first. Stay 100% off of it, and if you feel better, try testing yourself for other allergens. Good luck!

[A Friend]

@PRAgalberg wrote:

I have RA for four years and am following a standard treatment (Enbrel + MTX). It was working in the beginning, but not so much now (migrating pains, constant tiredness, troubles concentrating, occasional depression symptoms, etc.).

Therefore, I started looking into non-mainstream treatments and came across two:
1) AP by Dr. Brown.
2) Clearing food sensitivities (the book “Conquering Arthritis” by Barbara Allan, who had reactive arthritis / RA and got herself out of wheelchair by getting rid of food sensitivities).

By reading several books on AP and food sensitivities, I am contemplating on combining both treatments. It seems that bringing RA to the state of remission, one should get rid of both mycoplasma and food sensitivities. Healing the gut (curing leaky gut syndrome) is essential for the latter. However, antibiotics is one of the substances that actually cause leaky gut syndrome. An addition, a number of articles on the internet state that all RA patients have leaky gut and 95% have candida overgrowth (antibiotics do not help with keeping candida under control either).

Therefore, the question: are these two treatments mutually exclusive?

I cannot find any information on leaky gut in Henry Scammell

[cavalier]

When I look at the Whey you posted on the link AF – I was at Swanson’s just earlier today as i really dont want to spend any more money than I have too but I have tried this Whey before – I felt I had to use more to get the same as i am getting from Designs for Health Whey Cool.
For example taking from this link for this Whey product it is listed as this for Organic Whey Protein
Concentrate 80% (undenatured whey) (from milk) 10 grams

Whey Cool is 30 grams in one heaping scoop is for Protein is 24 grams. It also lists per one serving for each amino acid in this powder in grams AND Lactoferrin, Immunoglobins, Alpha Lactalbumin & Albumin, Phosphorous, potassium …

It is also non denatured & only grass fed raw milk minimal processing no hormones chemicals or ABX, GMO’s injected pathogens or hyperimmunization. This has a exceptional amt of glutathione precursor cysteine active peptides, glycpmacropeptides & growth factors.
I like that each peptide is measured so I know exactly how much i am getting in each scoop. Other similar products just dont list to this same extent the detail & I cant find a product on swansons close to the same for amt of protein per scoop or these other ingred’s. I love swansons use them all of the time but I tried using a couple of their products for this & they were not the same to me. For this i think when my NP told me about Whey Cool & a Chiro also endorses it years ago there is a difference – the others may help but this to me packs alot more punch in each serving and for me I need that.
I am not affliated with Designs for health or Whey Cool just i felt to point out what i have seen for differences. Hope you dont mind.
Best – Jill

[A Friend]

@cavalier wrote:

When I look at the Whey you posted on the link AF – I was at Swanson’s just earlier today as i really dont want to spend any more money than I have too but I have tried this Whey before – I felt I had to use more to get the same as i am getting from Designs for Health Whey Cool.
For example taking from this link for this Whey product it is listed as this for Organic Whey Protein
Concentrate 80% (undenatured whey) (from milk) 10 grams

Whey Cool is 30 grams in one heaping scoop is for Protein is 24 grams. It also lists per one serving for each amino acid in this powder in grams AND Lactoferrin, Immunoglobins, Alpha Lactalbumin & Albumin, Phosphorous, potassium …

It is also non denatured & only grass fed raw milk minimal processing no hormones chemicals or ABX, GMO’s injected pathogens or hyperimmunization. This has a exceptional amt of glutathione precursor cysteine active peptides, glycpmacropeptides & growth factors.
I like that each peptide is measured so I know exactly how much i am getting in each scoop. Other similar products just dont list to this same extent the detail & I cant find a product on swansons close to the same for amt of protein per scoop or these other ingred’s. I love swansons use them all of the time but I tried using a couple of their products for this & they were not the same to me. For this i think when my NP told me about Whey Cool & a Chiro also endorses it years ago there is a difference – the others may help but this to me packs alot more punch in each serving and for me I need that.
I am not affliated with Designs for health or Whey Cool just i felt to point out what i have seen for differences. Hope you dont mind.
Best – Jill

Jill, thanks for your discussion above. I must confess I’m not quite understanding. Did you compare these to ImmunoPro? If so, are you saying the Whey Cool is better than ImmunoPro? (I’ve been using ImmunoPro Nondenatured Whey Protein for over a year, but like learning if I can improve the products I use. The links you referred to were in posts under this same thread which I quoted/mentioned and were from other members posting on this thread.)

Thanks for any clarification.

AF

[cavalier]

hi AF

Yes I mentioned i used your link to get to Immunopro to list the 10 grams per scoop – I then listed the Designs for health Whey Cool that my ND & Chiro say is the most potent on the market & listed that amt. for you to see.

I am a customer of Swansons been one since the 90’s but they dont & cant get the Designs for health line – I once bought the whey products from Swansons one being the one named hoping I could save some money but I found it took twice as much to equal what i was getting in one scoop from Whey Cool in the long run in comparing them once I had to use twice as much to get to what I was getting from the one scoop it was not saving me money in the long run & if I used less as directed I was truly getting less. Since then i order my Whey Cool from Pure Formulas & it is free shipping I also use by the same company Designs for Health GI Revive. I mix the 2 together. The whey cool comes in flavors or plain i like the vanilla as i can mix it with other things but to each their own that way.
The other BIG thing that none of the Whey products carried on Swansons can compare to the Whey Cool is the amt of listed peptides and amino acids and I believe only one whey product even lists having lactoferrin in it & it is far lower than the amt. in Whey Cool – i also am getting preglutathione in the Whey Cool. When i compared holding the canister of the Whey Cool in my hand here – I can easily see why my Chiro & my ND both individually say that Whey Cool is the best – it shows in it’s content.

I have posted on here before of the benefits many of them for Lactoferrin – I am getting that too in the Whey Cool.
There are many forms of Whey but they are not all equal as you know but not only is grass fed & not being denatured matter but the amt of protein & most dont even want to list what they have for lactoferrin & if they do the amt is lower than whey Cool and I have not seen others list their peptides/amino acid content.
For me I need max. bang – & when you mentioned that Immunopro you felt was best and been happy – for me Whey Cool is even more benefit like Sears has good better & best for me I have found & so have 2 of my doc’s Whey Cool is best.

Hope this makes sense – I just dont know how else to say it – without listing the entire label for Whey Cool.
Best – Jill

[cavalier]

One scoop Immunopro using the link you supplied is 10 grams of protein – VS 24 grams of protein for the Whey cool same size single scoop -but that is ONLY the beginning of the differences.

Yes I used your link & repeated it SOLELY to show where i got the 10 grams of protein from – I just ordered some products from Swansons but not the Whey – I just revisited ALL of their whey products to see if anything could come close to what is in the Whey Cool & they still are not even close. In the long run if you double up on the Immunopro it is still not quite what I get from one scoop of the Whey Cool. I know for sure I am getting everything in the Whey Cool to help me including Lactoferrin in good doseages so i am actually not paying more in the long run. Whey Cool costs me less as Immunopro and is giving me more for that money.

Jill

[A Friend]

Just looked at the online link for Well Wisdom’s ImmunoPro and it shows the various properties were all in a 5 gram scoop, not 10 grams I believe you mentioned/wrote.

I know this is confusing, but you might post the link to the contents of the one you are saying you like best. Then people can print or compare it to others.

The Well Wisdom ImmunoPro contents can be viewed by going to:
http://www.wellwisdom.com/content/IPRx_RPFlyer05_color.pdf

Thanks for your hard work,
AF

[cavalier]

2 different things I am refering to the protein levels – & you are refering to the scoop size – both are in grams. I was looking at a listing for Immunopro that showed it as having 10 grams of Protein, NOT the scoop size which is also in grams. I just now went back to Swansons without looking at the previous links, it is listed as even less than 10 grams for PROTEIN it is saying 4 grams per a 5 oz scoop. I may have gotten on the wrong whey by Swansons as they have some that are 10 grams per one scoop.
Here it is –
ImmunoPro Non-Denatured Whey Protein
Supplement Facts
Serving Size 1 Scoop (5 grams)

Servings Per Container 60

Amount Per Serving %Daily Value
Calories 20
Total Fat 0.3 g <1%
Cholesterol 5 mg 2%
Sodium 10 mg <1%
Potassium 30 mg 1%
Total Carbohydrate 0.3 g 0%
Dietary Fiber 0 g 0%
Sugars 0 g **
Protein 4 g 8%
Calcium 20 mg 2%
Immunoglobulins

[cavalier]

Found one site – Here is a link that does give you what I can see on my container – they also have a strawberry but this tells you the breakdown –

http://www.rockwellnutrition.com/Whey-Cool-Vanilla-Powder-by-Designs-For-Health-DFH_p_1076.html –
Ingredients: Plain Flavor | Vanilla Flavor | Chocolate Flavor
Vanilla Flavor Ingredients:
Serving Size: 1 scoop (30 grams)
Servings Per Container: 30

Calories 120
Calories from Fat 18
Total Fat 2 g
Saturated Fat 0.9 g
Cholesterol 36 mg
Sodium 60 mg
Potassium 180 mg
Total Carbohydrates 2.8 g
Dietary Fiber 0 g
Sugars Alcohols 1.1 g
Protein 24 g
Calcium 120 mg
Iron 0.72 mg
Phosphorus 90 mg
Beta-lactoglobulin 14.6 g
Alpha-lactalbumin 3.51 g
Immunoglobulins 3 g
Bovine Serum Albumin 860 mg
Glycomacropeptides 15%
Lactoferrin 760 mg
Other Ingredients: Proprietary native whey protein concentrate (Proserum

[A Friend]

Jill,
The Whey Cool has other things/ingredients added to it that the ImmunoPro does not have. I actually prefer the one I’m using, which doesn’t have the additional additives, just the precursors. The ImmunoPro was used in controlled studies a number of years ago for bacterial infections, etc. that usually require an abx RX. Upon taking a certain period of time (six months), and retesting the lab, it was back in the normal range. This actually happened for me, too, in 2003 when I had a huge reaction to being on two pulsed abx (Minocin pulsed and Zithromax pulsed), and could not continue on the meds.

Even the past year, for a different problem (not involving an abnormal lab), it apparently did a good enough job detoxing that in a short period of time, the improvement was obvious.

So, when I look at the precurors for glutathione production in ImmunoPro (without the additional things that are added to the Whey Cool), it seems to me I shouldn’t tinker with the success I’ve been having, both in 2003 and this past six months again. It may be that the additional additives to Whey Cool accound for the difference in volume/measurement.

Thanks for your help/concern.

AF

[cavalier]

Dear AF – there is NO added minerals or vitamins to Whey Cool, all it is Whey but they give a complete breakdown of what is in it. I understand if you wish to stick with what you know & feel comfortable with. I had good success in the past with Whey Cool – I only regret not continuing with it not realizing I had risk for SD.

Best – Jill

[Anonymous]

@dixiegirl wrote:

I have leaky gut and allergies. I changed my diet and it cut out 90% of my RA symptoms.
I was afraid to start the AP because of the leaky gut connection, but I started (after 1 1/2 years of debate) yesterday! So… probiotics will be my best friend and I hope nothing bad happens…
All I can say it that diet can violently affect my RA, and I’ve met several other people who have made the same connection. Hope diet change helps you– try gluten and dairy first. Stay 100% off of it, and if you feel better, try testing yourself for other allergens. Good luck!

…getting back to the leaky gut thing…..
Dixiegirl, I am really interested in your progress on AP, I think you started it about 5 days ago or so. I have scleroderma and like you have gone med free and focused mainly on healing my gut through nutrition (gluten, dairy, soy, caffeine and sugar free) and supplements (D, aloe Vera, probiotics, omega3, resveratol, glutamine and glutathione). I have made major strides in my overall pain and fatigue but have other bothersome symptoms that come with my condition and have been contemplating AP as a longer term ‘solution’. Please post more on your progress with AP and especially on your decision to try it.
Thanks for the posting!

[Kalinda]

Does anyone know if whey is okay for people avoiding dairy? I tried powdered colostrum and had problems with the dairy content.
I also have issues with gut permeability and I am hesitant to start abx. Does anyone know if herbal treatments for Lyme cause less damage to gut flora?

Thank you,
Kalinda

[Author]

Posts