Is this a HERX???

[gonnaBhealthy]

Hello to all supportive “Roadbackers”. I am in the phase of studying the AP and MP, learning more and making a decision on what to do. A few days ago I went to a new family Dr, my first visit to her. She did a U.A. test and said I had a U.T.I. although I had no detectable symptoms.

She started me on Septra/Bactrim 2 X day. Within 18 hours I was having fever, headache, stiff neck, muscle pain all over back, hips, legs. I finally took Ibuprofen, thinking that it was just the infection kicking in and she just caught it before hand. Now I wonder if this is what herxing is like. I've been on the abx for 4 days now and I see that about 4-5 hours after a dose, the pain kicks in. I know, or think I know, this is not one of the abx that is usually used, right?  Is this a taste of what I should expect on AP? Is it ok to take ibuprofen or is that suppressing the immune system? Is there something else used for pain or do use just need to feel it and get thru it?  I know I'm not actuall on the AP yet, just trying to use this experience to learn a little.

Would love to hear from you experienced travelers on this road back.

Thanks for your help and support.

GONNA B HEALTHY!!!!!

[A Friend]

[user=744]gonnaBhealthy[/user] wrote:

I am in the phase of studying the AP and MP, learning more and making a decision on what to do. A few days ago I went to a new family Dr, my first visit to her. She did a U.A. test and said I had a U.T.I. although I had no detectable symptoms.

She started me on Septra/Bactrim 2 X day. Within 18 hours I was having fever, headache, stiff neck, muscle pain all over back, hips, legs. I finally took Ibuprofen, thinking that it was just the infection kicking in and she just caught it before hand. Now I wonder if this is what herxing is like. I've been on the abx for 4 days now and I see that about 4-5 hours after a dose, the pain kicks in. I know, or think I know, this is not one of the abx that is usually used, right?  Is this a taste of what I should expect on AP? Is it ok to take ibuprofen or is that suppressing the immune system? Is there something else used for pain or do use just need to feel it and get thru it?  I know I'm not actuall on the AP yet, just trying to use this experience to learn a little.

Would love to hear from you experienced travelers on this road back.

 
GonnaB,

I'm assuming from your being here and posting that you have some type of rheumatic diagnosis or potentially one.  So, based on this assumption and the reactions you described, I'd say this medication has hit a number of organisms that it is effective against, and you are having a “herx” reaction — especially with the timing pattern. 

About ibuprofen, I consider it one of the most effective things I've taken.  Even Dr. Brown mentioned taking this type product 30 minutes before taking AP, which can help thin thickened blood with fibrin, and allow the abx to better reach the target. Ibuprofen does not suppress the immune system in this case, it actually enhances the effectiveness of the abx.  Another product that helps with the absorption of the abx and its effectiveness is Bromelain.  (In MP, Dr. M has suggested another type, but his suggestion has to do with the nature of the MP and medications, and at one time he suggested another one, if needed.) Thorne Research has a paper several pages long that shows how Bromelain. in controlled studies, enabled great improvement in several illnesses where abx were needed and patients were not responding.  Thorne abstract/studies on Bromelain:  
 
Bromelain: A Literature Review and Discussion of its Therapeutic Applications
 
http://www.thorne.com/media/bromelain.pdf
 

My own experience with Ibuprofen:  I'm one who has been found to have thickened blood in the presence of infection, and over the years have found that ibuprofen works really well as:  1) a fever reducer, causing sweats and cleansing, making me feel better; 2) when I was very ill and felt cold all the time, when I took ibuprofen, it helped to warm me up, probably by increased circulation; 3)  when I had acute onset uveitis, one of the foremost opthalmologists in the country (Harkness/NY/NJ), told me to stay on my Minocin and take ibuprofen daily (he added, “if your stomach tolerates it ok”, and it did), and get off the MTX a local doctor insisted I take.

Recent recommendation for Ibuprofen:  Just recently on the news was a segment warning parents not to give aspirin to their children because of Reyes Syndrome, and added that the recommended 1st treatment was…… Ibuprofen.

Good luck to you in figuring out a good plan for yourself.  I'm sure there is a good link on RBF BB, but one that for years has stayed in my head is:  http://www.rheumatic.org and click on “Frequently Asked Questions” which answers just about any question that pops into my head about herxing and AP treatment.

AF

[Maz]

[user=744]gonnaBhealthy[/user] wrote:

A few days ago I went to a new family Dr, my first visit to her. She did a U.A. test and said I had a U.T.I. although I had no detectable symptoms.

Hi GonnaBhealthy,

Thought you might be interested to read this article that was in the last Road Back eBulletin, linking proteus mirabilis, a common pathogen causing UTIs, to RA. One of the study authors, Alan Ebringer, has written extensively on this connection and DragonSlayer (aka John) has collected much of his research, kindly sharing it with those who request it. 

RHEUMATOID ARTHRITIS LINKED TO PROTEUS MIRABILIS
A King's College research team, based in London, England, has published findings in a study implicating “various microbial agents,” as causative factors in rheumatoid arthritis and further adding to the mounting evidence pointing to the myriad of possible infectious causes of rheumatic disease. Study conclusions state that this group “? supports the role of Proteus mirabilis bacteria in the etiopathogeneisis of RA.” In addition to treatment measures currently employed to manage rheumatoid arthritis, the King's College research team suggests, “? the use of a novel therapeutic protocol in the form of antibiotic and dietary measures” and recommends further study “? to establish the therapeutic benefit of this microbe-disease association.”

Source: [/color]

In addition to the information A Friend supplied on the Herxheimer reaction, here are two links from the Road Back website that may help.

https://www.roadback.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/education.display/display_id/91.html

https://www.roadback.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=studies.display&display_id=184#Anchor-The-51540

Peace, Maz

PS.

Just a general note to everyone who is wondering how to do add a signature line and hasn't worked it out yet:

If you would like to add your diagnosis/meds to your signature line (this appears automatically every time you post), just go to the “My Account” at the top of this page and then click “Profile” in the tabs.  Right at the bottom of the form to fill out your details, you will find the “Signature” box. This is where you can add as much or as little detail about your condition as you like. Sometimes it can be hard for others to reply to a post when not much is known about a person's diagnosis and what meds they might already be taking….but this is entirely up to you, of course!

One thing that is very helpful is when members add their state/country, not only to enable networking with others in your state/country, but also to help newcomers who may be looking for physician recommendations in their locality. 😉

[linda]

Ibuprofen is a good anti-inflammatory and won't interfere with the antibiotics, but make sure that you're taking it with food as it's hard on the stomach. You should be taking some kind of anti-inflammatory while on AP or MP as it helps the antibiotics to be more effective; it reduces the inflammation around the affected joints so that the antibiotics can get in there and work. Also, make sure you are taking probiotics to replace the good bacteria in your gut that will be lost from the antibiotics. Best wishes,

linda

[Jan Lucinda]

THanks all for the information.  Helpful to me.

[Author]

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