Immunocal.

[gordbentley]

So a friend reccommended this product, I did a wack of research, it seemed pretty legitimate so I am now investing in this product towards my health. Day 5 and my legs are screaming at me, usually they start to hurt around 11-12 and remains persistant until 9-10 pm. Herxing maybe? is anyone else taking this product. It is supposed to raise Glutathione levels naturally in your body thus boosting your immune system. first two days I had a decent boost in energy but the last three days ive kept the energy and im in a massive flare up. the pain sucks but i have more energy and I gained 5 pounds which is a good thing in my books im pretty skinny. ok I’ll stop rambling. If anyone takes this product let me know what you think/thought of it. pretty expensive but affordable.

[Trudi]

Hi Gord–

Immunocal must be the latest thing out there. A customer gave a packet to my husband for me to try. I checked with my doctor first who muscle tested me and said it is no good for me–the following might be a reason why. I had an organic acid test done awhile back and it showed I am high in pyroglutamic acid which “is possibly due to supplementation with glutathione or N-acetyl cysteine. Elevated pyroglutamic acid may also result from a genetic deficiency of the enzyme glutathione synthetase, from the metabolic effects of certain antigiotics, or following the use of certain infant formulas.”

As in all things, one has to be careful what one takes and how it affects the body. BTW, I haven’t supplemented with glutathione or N-acetyl cysteine.

Take care,

Trudi

Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

[Maz]

@gordbentley wrote:

If anyone takes this product let me know what you think/thought of it. pretty expensive but affordable.

Hi Gord,

Immunocal worked great for me, but the cost was too prohibitive on a longterm basis. I tried this one first, but later switched to ImmunoPro. I’m not as confident that it’s as effective as Immunocal, though.

The problem with Immunocal is that in order to buy it, you need to go through a pyramid-seller or become one yourself, so there is no mark-up. I think it’s possible to get it for half the price by becoming one of their sellers, but I wasn’t willing to go to that extent. It’s possible to purchase it in Canada, so you might just find a Vitamin store willing to stock it at a more reasonable cost to you?

I’ve read that the important thing to look for when purchasing an undenatured whey is to ensure it’s been made from the milk of organic, grass fed cattle without added sugars or other additives. My new doc suggested “Warrior Whey,” but this is priced heftily, too.

I’ve also been having a series of glutathione IV pushes, which I have discovered are fantastic for detoxing – some insurance carriers are even paying for these. 😯 There can be some weird, but transient effects a day or so following a push and a little light-headedness during the IV push, but the rush of energy, clear-headedness and feeling of overall wellness has been remarkable. The day after my first push, I felt like I’d droppped 20 years! There are other ways to boost glutathione production in the body (like suppositories and orals). I haven’t tried suppositories and these may need to be rx’d. Glutathione doesn’t stick in the body long, so it’s something that needs to be taken consistently for continued effects and it’s arguable if it’s better to take it orally or via IV push. I’ve seen arguments on both sides of the fence on this. So, I just decided to try IV pushes and then supplement in-between.

N-actetylcysteine is a precursor to glutathione production in the liver and many AP docs and LLMDs who are more integrative are suggesting it as a bio-film buster due to glutathione’s chelative props (bio-films love minerals, like iron, magnesium and calcium).

The main benefit of glutathione is its anti-oxidative effects in the body, which is why muscle-builders use it. RA or any inflammatory disease causes damage through oxidation, like rust on metal is caused by oxidation. Interestingly, my old doc told me that anti-inflammatories work by oxidation in the gut (thus only adding to the problem)! Hence, his suggestion to also use an something with anti-oxidative properties to counter the effects of rx’d or OTC anti-inflammatories, with something like resveratrol. ALA (alpha lipoic acid) is another powerful anti-oxidant or Vit C or grapeseed extract. These all help with detoxification.

Thing is, it’s toxins which cause the inflammed tissues in RA and other rheumatic disease, so helping the body to get rid of these toxins more swiftly is the goal, so they’re not circulating around and around in the body and doing their dirty work and placing stress on the detox organs, like the liver, lungs and kidneys (interestingly, the lungs of a health person are glutathione-rich, but less so in someone with chronic disease. This is why anyone with cystic fibrosis or lung fibrosis does better when they take N-acetylcysteine).

Lots of ways to help the body in addition to glutathione and anti-oxidative supps: FIR saunas, drinking plenty of water, eating a fresh, clean healthy diet, ensuring to have regular bowel movements, liver/gall bladder flushing (not for anyone with kidney issues due to magnesium in epsoms), epsom/peroxide baths, lemon/olive oil slow flush detox drink, MSM, coffee enemas, etc.

According to Dr.Brown’s theory, deathbed, dying organisms are releasing toxins to which rheumatic tissues become hypersensitive – called “bacterial hypersensitivity” or “bacterial allergy.” Detoxing is one of the best ways to support AP and it’s something I wished I’d paid more attention to in the early days, myself.

[Joe RA]

Hi: Maz and Gord
After finding out what the Immunocal is and what it does, further supports my thoughts, why I am doing so well with my one time severe RA. and the Antibiotic protocol for the last 7 years, (this month) with no negative results or herxes ever.
(It has to be the healthy food choices I have made for myself) No Processed foods, only fruits, vegetables,
nuts/seeds all kinds, water and finally the ultra natural superior to the mentioned Immunocal,
Raw Milk, undenatured and loaded with enzymes,
minerals, vitamins, amino acids and all the whey protein to enhance, boost, rebuild and benefit a
healthy immune system.
The best to you all, ….Joe RA….

[Patricia.Ann]

Joe RA 🙂 Your ‘Roadback’ to health sounds so very positive. Could you give me an example of what you eat on a daily basis please. Fruit, Veg, Nuts and Seeds sounds fab, as does the raw milk (not sure if I could get that though). I am drinking oat milk at the moment. What else do you include? I am really interested because I am now looking into diet to help along with the AP but just want to keep it very simple.

Thank you for your helpful, informative posts. They are very motivating 😉

Best wishes Patricia

[gordbentley]

Wow, sounds like a lot of you are on board already with this product, I actually ended up getting it from a fellow firefighter who gives it to his son for autism with fantastic results. he is also a distributor of the product. I had to stop taking it though as the herx I was getting was insane. I need to sort out dosing on this stuff, it is pretty intense! hope you all had a good thanksgiving 🙂

[Krys]

@gordbentley wrote:

Herxing maybe?
…first two days I had a decent boost in energy but the last three days ive kept the energy and im in a massive flare up.

I only took ImmunoPro mixed in raw goat’s kefir. I herxed + flared. Exhaustion disappeared for 1 whole hour, so I started taking it 3x day. Massive joint + bone pain.
Herxed: my Candida disappeared. Even athlete’s foot that showed up right prior to my Anti-Candida treatment (May -June) and stayed with me, spontaneously disappeared on ImmunoPro + raw yogurt (my herbal Lyme program surely contributed: it is strongly Candida inhibitive).
Flared: even after stopping ImmunoPro 3 weeks ago, I’m still getting joint pain (no bone pain: that part is always part of herxing for me) after my raw kefir. Not after pasteurized yogurt or kefir.

@Trudi wrote:

Hi Gord–
I had an organic acid test done awhile back and it showed I am high in pyroglutamic acid which “is possibly due to supplementation with glutathione or N-acetyl cysteine. Elevated pyroglutamic acid may also result from a genetic deficiency of the enzyme glutathione synthetase, from the metabolic effects of certain antigiotics, or following the use of certain infant formulas.”

As in all things, one has to be careful what one takes and how it affects the body. BTW, I haven’t supplemented with glutathione or N-acetyl cysteine.

Trudi, could you kindly tell me exact name of the test and what laboratory does it?
I think I may greatly benefit from doing it. It points to a solution of a puzzle of my first 16 years of life which resurfaced with ImmunoPro.
Gord, sorry for highjacking your thread.
I’ll give some details in case the problem applies to some other people.

I was switched to baby formula (which was powdered cow’s milk, hence denatured) at 4 months of age. At 1 year old my mom started giving me raw cow’s milk and I had allergic reaction. She found that the supplier was not too honest with the quality of milk and she started feeding me with low pasteurized store bought milk. No problems. But i was experiencing massive allergic reactions each time I was given raw full milk, which happened each time I was visiting family in the country. Itchy bumpy hives covered my whole body for over a day and each time I just wanted to die. Same reaction to eggs, but not to egg containing products. The official diagnosis was milk (casein) and egg protein allergy. It always perplexed me that there was no reaction to pasteurized milk or boiled cow’s milk.

In July I took 8 Rocephin + Glutathione IVs. I felt great. After the last one I crashed into total exhaustion. I thought I was herxing so I started taking Chlestyramine to bind toxins. Right after the second dosage I started having quite severe kidney pain. I did not find any side effects that could explain that but I found that my body is too low on cholesterol and bile. Lynnie”s link given around that time explained how adrenals need cholesterol and vit. A to function well. I restarted taking Iodoral , made sure I took Betaine&Pepsin + digestive enzymes with meals, tried loading up on fat, drank huge amounts of vegetable juices to promote bile production, took 2 mega doses of vit. A (every 2 weeks one dose) and my exhaustion resolved into fabulous energy level.

Now back to ImmunoPro: I started taking it while still exhausted and just working on solving all the connections. It helped with exhaustion for full 1 hour, so I started taking it 3x day. Herxing and flaring followed. I kept at it for 2 months hoping the herxing part will do a lot of good and the flaring part will not do too much damage. Candida disappeared, so I’m glad I persisted. But old milk allergy is back, incuding single itchy hives and this time also quite severe joint pain which subsides pretty fast.

Deficiency of Glutathione synthetase enzyme explains it better than anything I can think of. I kept wondering all my life how is it possible that the best milk ever: the raw one, causes problems for me and the pasteurized one does not produce any reactions. I’ve grown to love my raw goat’s milk but it has been causing slight finger swelling almost since beginning (1,5 years now). I have not been able to give it up and knowing that my raw kefir supplies such huge amount of good bacteria is making it even harder to give it up.

It seems that Rocephin + Glutathione IVs somehow caused malfunctioning of both thyroid and adrenals (crashing is maybe too strong a word if the problem resolved with Iodoral: exhaustion disappeared. Kidneys stopped hurting after raising cholesterol levels and taking vit. A). I’m not saying my thyroid and adrenals were great, but I did crash into total exhaustion!
So in my case deficiency of this enzyme (if tests confirm that I have this deficiency) coupled with major increase of Glutathione intake affects detrimentally thyroid and adrenals? Does it mean I should stop taking NAC and ALA (both 3x day)? Raw kefir should go, too? Would it be very dense to try out just 1 more glutathione push?
I don’t like any of my conclusions. I don’t want them to be true. I preferred casein allergy, even though it did not quite cover it. 😈 😥

Thanks for making this thread so interesting! Warm wishes, Krys

[gordbentley]

Wow, everyone got super scientific on me here. sooooo lost haha, ive been out of the research loop for some time. I find not focusing on it keeps me in better shape though but lately ive been flaring hardcore all over again. last night was not fun to say the least 🙁 hopefully things pick up, ive been slacking on the minocycline a lot too. need to get back on board with that asap and take all my doses. havnt taken it since monday last week :S I will read all your posts this evening 🙂 thank you all for input

[Trudi]

@Krys wrote:

Trudi, could you kindly tell me exact name of the test and what laboratory does it?

http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/home/eng/full_oat.asp

@Krys wrote:

Deficiency of Glutathione synthetase enzyme explains it better than anything I can think of.

Hi Krys–
Did a little research and found that this is very rare:

“Glutathione synthetase deficiency is very rare. This disorder has been described in about 70 people worldwide.”
http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/glutathione-synthetase-deficiency

Take care,
Trudi

Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

[Krys]

@Trudi wrote:

“Glutathione synthetase deficiency is very rare. This disorder has been described in about 70 people worldwide.”
http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/glutathione-synthetase-deficiency

Thank you, Trudi.
I’ll run it by my LLMD, but judging by the symptoms listed in the above link, I do NOT have a deficiency. I’ve never had hemolytic anemia. Nobody in my family has had it. The reverse is often true for some family members: very high level of hemoglobin, bordering on too high. So reaction to raw milk in childhood will remain a mystery. At present all my enzymes are on the low side due to Lyme &Co so maybe this one got very slightly affected and could not cope with sudden big increase of Glutathione and Gluthatione precursors. Definitely no glutathione synthetase deficiency, and thank God for that!

And thank you very much for the link to the test! I like it a lot.
Warm wishes, Krys

[A Friend]

@gordbentley wrote:

So a friend reccommended this product, I did a wack of research, it seemed pretty legitimate so I am now investing in this product towards my health. Day 5 and my legs are screaming at me, usually they start to hurt around 11-12 and remains persistant until 9-10 pm. Herxing maybe? is anyone else taking this product. It is supposed to raise Glutathione levels naturally in your body thus boosting your immune system. first two days I had a decent boost in energy but the last three days ive kept the energy and im in a massive flare up. the pain sucks but i have more energy and I gained 5 pounds which is a good thing in my books im pretty skinny. ok I’ll stop rambling. If anyone takes this product let me know what you think/thought of it. pretty expensive but affordable.

Hi Gord,

Just now saw your post about Immunocal and your reaction. It sounds like the dose (for you at this time) may be too high. With chronic illness, we need to start slowly. I’ve had a good bit of personal experience with the type quality undenatured whey protein in Immunocal, having used it when I had a reaction to Zithromax while treating a problem found on my lab report. Since the abx reaction was pretty horrific, my AP physician had me stay on the whey protein product I was taking for six months. When retested, the lab test was normal.

Even though I learned a few years ago about the importance of glutathione, much too late in my dietary education, I finally have learned the huge importance of amino acids for every part of our body. I’ve read particularly about whey protein supplementation as the source of these amino acids, that we should start very slowly to make sure too many toxins are not killed and mobilized at once. (A patient can even begin taking this type of therapeutic protein… and not have the type pain reactions you are having… and still be beginning to have a die-off, and if the die-off is great, can begin exiting through the skin and be seen in the form of a rash.) This happened to me almost two weeks ago, and I was shocked, because I was feeling better and better every day — plus my spine and hip pain that had been a problem, and was the reason I began taking it, had amazingly quit hurting.

What the rash HAD to be was a metabolic detoxification at a deep level. I have an even better guess what this die-off was, but will save this for a more comprehensive post that I plan to share in the near future. I actually have had to stop (temporarily) taking the ImmunePro (was taking one scoop am and one scoop pm). But, plan to begin again, more slowly when the rash has completely cleared, to keep from overwhelming my body again. I know I desperately need amino acids to do everything they do. And, I know they do good work in my body, because I consider it no small miracle that the pain in my spine/hips which began about June just seems to have resolved. (I’m sure the bone problems haven’t gone away… (yet! lol), but I believe the amino acids can help rebuild cartilage, connective tissue, and other supporting mechanisms for my bone problems and much more. Because of my prior longterm acidosis (and inability to properly digest and use needed meat proteins/amino acids), I believe amino acids in the undenatured whey protein is the way for me to go).

Hope you get through your present herx reaction and improve every day! And please share your progress with us.

AF

[gordbentley]

I have stopped taking it, and will resume november 2nd. working up to quitting smoking and refining my diet to not eating unhealthy food from bars when I go socializing. these two factors i assume will make my herxing worse due to releasing way to many toxins.

[marypart]

Gord,

This is a bit off-topic, but I used quitnet.com when I quit way back in 2006. It’s an amazing site, with lots of support. At that time I just did the free-version.

The great thing is that it actually calculates how much money you save day-by-day by quitting. It also has great advice on self-talk to keep you motivated and on-track, the powerful one for me was “I’m a cigarette away from a pack a day” which kept from cheating.

Good luck
Mary

[Krys]

@A Friend wrote:

….we should start very slowly to make sure too many toxins are not killed and mobilized at once. …..
if the die-off is great, can begin exiting through the skin and be seen in the form of a rash.)

What the rash HAD to be was a metabolic detoxification at a deep level….

Very interesting and most helpful to me! Thank you. Krys

[A Friend]

@Krys wrote:

@A Friend wrote:

….we should start very slowly to make sure too many toxins are not killed and mobilized at once. …..
if the die-off is great, can begin exiting through the skin and be seen in the form of a rash.)

What the rash HAD to be was a metabolic detoxification at a deep level….

Very interesting and most helpful to me! Thank you. Krys

Krys, thanks! So good to hear this was helpful, and hoping this will also help others. My “rash” was far more than just a rash — enough to merit an emergency work-in appointment at my PCP’s. He ruled out (blood test) its being shingles. He told me all my labs just a couple of weeks before were really good. The “rash” has healed on the surface, but the inflammation from it can be felt still under the skin. I plan to do some of the detox procedures, i.e. FIR sauna, liver detox, coffee enemas, etc…. to help my body excrete more toxins.

Not sure if I’ve previously posted this link with impressive information. [Not recommending anyone DO anything, except to educate themselves as much as possible… but I’m impressed (after the fact…lol); and within this link are numerous other links in each topic, giving further information. Wish I’d had this info and and a crystal ball years ago!]
The link is:
http://www.jigsawhealth.com/resources/vitamin-deficiency/print
Deficiencies: Overview, Symptoms, Causes, Natural Treatments and Medicine

Have been thinking of you and others. Some of you I’ve owed a PM reply or call for a while, but with trying to keep up with our large family and important events, and all the doctor appts and scans my PCP wanted checked out, I feel a bit “deranged”! I have to add again, that the improvement in my new bone diagnosis — just discovered about May or June of this year — is above my greatest hopes and expectations — that is, in the pain going away; the films, I’m sure, still will look bad. Now, just to figure out a way to be able to continue on the whey protein without again experiencing the previous problems.

Warm wishes and prayers for everyone,
AF

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