- This topic has 5 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 9 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
The AP Doc in England that is also an LLMD has now sent me a suggestion of additional testing for Lyme. It includes both Igenex Western blots for IgG and IgM, as well as the same from a German lab where also an LTT (Lymphocyte
Transfomation Test) is to be made. Regrettably, no furter testing for co-infections.
Is it common with several Western Blots? They seem indicative at best, so no number of different tests will be fully conclusive (but that's of course true for all tests). Thank you for views on this.Regrettably, I've been in a less fit state since when I agreed on going back to England for further testing, contributing to my hesitation (and I realise that the hypobaric conditions during flight is possibly contributing too, as air travel is unpleasant now, or am I imagining).
[user=2031]nord[/user] wrote:
The AP Doc in England that is also an LLMD has now sent me a suggestion of additional testing for Lyme. It includes both Igenex Western blots for IgG and IgM, as well as the same from a German lab where also an LTT (Lymphocyte
Transfomation Test) is to be made. Regrettably, no furter testing for co-infections.
Is it common with several Western Blots? They seem indicative at best, so no number of different tests will be fully conclusive (but that's of course true for all tests). Thank you for views on this.Regrettably, I've been in a less fit state since when I agreed on going back to England for further testing, contributing to my hesitation (and I realise that the hypobaric conditions during flight is possibly contributing too, as air travel is unpleasant now, or am I imagining).
Hi Nord,
Looks like Dr. D is doing a full panel for you of common euro and north american borreliosis strains – a good thing! Some strains of borrelia are more prevalent in europe and some more prevalent in NA, but some of each strains have been seen on both sides of the Atlantic…maybe due to migrating birds bringing euro strains here and vice-versa or just because people are more mobile these days, traveling for work and vacationing overseas.
The LTT test is a German MELISA test and is used in cases where borreliosis may not be fully evident from the western blot assays or PCR and to confirm ambiguous results. This article explains more:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16876371
With the various western blots, though, it's all about antibodies being measured in response to various proteins expressed by different borrelia species.
Yup, stress and air travel could precipitate a flare….it's not your imagination. There is some info in the Brown book about air pressure and how this affects rheumatics.
Do hope you feel better soon, Nord.
Peace, Maz
PS The LTT test is normally used to test for drug hypersensitivity, so it's pretty interesting that the Germans are now using it in this novel way for borreliosis testing. The Germans are moving ahead much more quickly with better testing methods, I reckon, as they've turned their backs on the ridiculous politics surrounding Lyme here in the US.
Hello Maz,
thank you for the kind words! The sheer variability of symptoms is rather amazing.
My main question is how much does different tests contribute, as some state that in the end it has to be a clinical diagnosis. If the picture is that unclear, perhaps other diagnoses should be considered?
Thank you for making me look at melisa.org once more, giving me more ideas! They have a page with clinics around the world, and just as you wrote, no Lyme LTT testing in the US, is it too “hot”? There is more on Melisa at melisa.org and its application to Borrelia at http://www.melisa.org/borrelia-lyme-disease.php. Here is the full article which abstract you linked to http://www.holistic-medicine.dk/artikler/ltt_melisa.pdf
Interestingly one other German LTT has a lot higher sensitivity (91 % vs 37% for Melisa-LTT) paired with largely similar specificity (94% vs 97% for Melisa-LTT). http://www.reference-global.com/doi/abs/10.1515/JLM.2007.023 . Obviously this was not known to the inventors of the Borrelia Melisa LTT when they published their article (but does put a train on the way they present the test on their website). The latter seems to be one of the preferred LTTs by Germans (forum members as well as the top Lyme docs) and another being at a lab in Karlsruhe. The lab boss there even offered to take a blood sample while visiting the place where I live, but the airline doesn't accept samples being taken aboard (the sample has to be in the lab within 24h, or 48 at the absolute most).
I had forgottten that Brown writes about air travel being difficult for rheumatics (I don't even recall having read it ). My reason for asking was that I connected my experiences (aggrivation already during flight) with what Nicholson writes under “Oxidative Therapy for Chronic Lyme Disease Co-Infections” in “Diagnosis and Therapy of Chronic Systemic Co-Infections in Lyme Disease and Other Tick-Borne Infectious Diseases”. Going hypopbaric would mean dong the opposite in favor of the “borrelians” (among other microbes). Not sure of how quick the reaction is, will go back to the “New Arthritis Breakthrough”, and will read through a thread on a German forum where a lot of members participated in an experiment in D
[user=27]Maz[/user] wrote:
PS The LTT test is normally used to test for drug hypersensitivity, so it's pretty interesting that the Germans are now using it in this novel way for borreliosis testing. The Germans are moving ahead much more quickly with better testing methods, I reckon, as they've turned their backs on the ridiculous politics surrounding Lyme here in the US.
The Melisa Borrelia LTT is available in the US. The author of the relevant article above is now working in the US since Nov 2009: the last lab in the list at http://www.melisa.org/melisa-laboratories.php If I understand correctly she's taken over it.
Both corresponding authors of the articles above emphasised that the main outcome was the reduction of the LTT with abx treatment, and Dr V-T pointed out that they did not actually attmepted to assess sensitivity, as it is very difficult to have a good definition of a positive dx (which was my main question).
Maz, I have a short flight next week~ about 45 minutes each way. Is that short enough to not have a flare of my already beat up Lyme joints?
[user=2011]Kash[/user] wrote:
Maz, I have a short flight next week~ about 45 minutes each way. Is that short enough to not have a flare of my already beat up Lyme joints?
Barb…really good question and wish I knew the answer for you. :doh: Seems it's the changes in barometric pressure which is what causes the issues for many…as mentioned in the Scammell book. So, it may not be time-dependent (how long a flight) and more to do with degree of change in barometric pressure that could cause the problems. You know, thinking about bio-films, I just have to wonder if the change in air pressure during flights and the way this impacts the human body's homeostasis may actually disturb pathogen bio-film communities as a by-product and that this is what causes the flares?
Dehydration while flying is another issue that may be detrimental, so you might try drinking lots of water pre-flight and during to see if this helps counter things. So many RAers feel when bad weather (and low barometric pressure) is coming in their joints…if you've ever experienced it, it feels like a heaviness that is similar to water retention. A natural remedy for water retention is to drink more water.
Do hope you don't experience a “flight flare,” Barb…let us know how you get on.
Peace, Maz
The topic ‘ How many Western Blots?’ is closed to new replies.