Herx from He**

[nspiker]

So last week, I had what I've come to think was a herx from he** :sick::sick::sick:.  I thought it was an allergic reaction to a new antibiotic, but after reading some old posts and hearing that a herx can cause a hive-like-rash, it's more likely a herx. 

It started out like the flu; achy, stabbing  headache, blurry eyes and bloating.  I took an epsom salts/hydrogen peroxide bath and my ankles started to itch.  Then I saw small red blotches or bumps on my legs.  I felt terrible for three days. My blood pressure was low (especially for me), and when my pcp took my blood, he said my white cells count was low. 

Today, I feel much better but still have red spots on my legs, not as bad, but they're still there.  I took benadryl the first few nights, thinking it was an allergic reaction, but the bumps didn't go away. 

Have any of you ever experienced anything like this?  How long do these bumps or hives last?  What causes them?

nancy

[lynnie_sydney]

Nancy – these are some indications (from main site historical protocol info) on how blood results can help differentiate between herx, flare and allergic reaction. Might be worth looking at a few more of the results. Lynnie

Differentiating between a Herxheimer, an RA flare and an allergic reaction to the drug

Laboratory tests can help differentiate between a worsening of disease (RA flare), a Herxheimer reaction to microbial toxins, and an allergic reaction to medication.

1. WBC will elevate in a Herxheimer and lower in a flare. [/*:2zfs8ekp]
2. A Herxheimer will also exhibit a coincidental elevation of SED rate, gamma globulin and total globulin, and a fall in serum albumin and hematocrit. Patients who exhibit this flare reaction accompanied by anemia, depression of serum albumin, elevated total globulin and gamma globulin are probably reflecting a more intense reaction pattern to anti-L substances than in hematologically mild cases. [/*:2zfs8ekp]
3. A marked increase in eosinophils (for instance about 30%) is an indication of an allergic reaction to the drug.

[/*]
https://www.roadback.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=studies.display&display_id=184#Anchor-The-51540

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[mkbeeliever]

Nancy,

My mom had a rash and itched like crazy for months.  It was terrible.  Her doctor wanted to take her off the mino thinking she was having a reaction to it and not a herx.  It was definitely a herx. She lived on benedryl, anti itch cream and spray and atarax.  She almost went loopy from it.  They say that scleroderma folk don't herx as much as others but she definitely did.  She even had flu like symptoms.  We did not test her WBC so I don't know if it was up or down…It's all just a bad memory now.  I pray you start feeling better soon!

Blessings,
Michelle

[Michele]

Hi Nancy,

My DH has a rash on his ankle / shin and elbow. (He has lyme coinfections, too.) Doc suggested ASAP gel; he's also tried a prescription anti-fungal cream. We thought he had it under control and it started to increase again today. His rash is very itchy! The two hypothesis he's had for this rash is that it is the body detoxing or that he needs to “heal his gut.” I know he is really battling yeast right now. Nystatin and Diflucan with Theralac and SBC.

I can't offer much help, but I sure can sympathize!!!

Michele

[Maz]

Nancy, Michele, did the rash start after starting Mepron by any chance? Just saw my LLMD yesterday and he told me not to worry if I developed an itchy measles-like rash when I begin my new protocol of Mepron and zith. He said this a common, transitory immunologic reaction and to take a one-week break from Mepron, then recommence at same dose, and that the rash should resolve and usually doesn't return the second time around.

All this may be moot, of course, if neither is taking Mepron! 😉 Just thought to mention it in case it might help in some way.

Peace, Maz

[Michele]

Hi Maz,

Thanks for pondering this point. Neither of us have started Mepron yet.

BTW The liver flush was er…not something I'd like to have to repeat and know it will return with a few repeat signs before the coda. Ugh. Thanks again for your wisdom on that. The worst was the olive oil and juice. I didn't get it blended well, so the straw took up the juice first and I was thinking it wasn't so bad. Then I got to the pure oil. Oy. Nasty. Results included lots of stones. I was expecting scary creatures but nothing so extravagant appeared.

DH does his baby liver flush next weekend. I wonder what this detox will do to his rash. It may reinforce the detox theory if it clears again.

Nancy, I also wondered about your dose size? You mentioned a new antibiotic was in the mix. Dose size and testing a new medicine has been my grievous filled experiences. Now when the doctor will start me on a baby dose but then I still cut it in half and titrate it up. I had a horrendous herx from the “leaping fires from below” rash when a new-to-me MP doc added Diflucan with Benicar. This appeared on my rib cage and under my breasts. That lasted a few months. I poured an MSM lotion onto it. The skin stayed leathery and itchy for a long time but it's finally all gone now. Who knows what helped it? I changed so many things since then. I do notice that the exact spot the rash appeared is where my rib cage pain exists.

I sure hope you feel better soon. Keep us posted!

Michele

[nspiker]

Lynnie, if I understand what the historical protocol info states, it must have been a flare.  Is that how you interpret it?

My llmd thinks it was a herx.  My pcp thinks it was a virus.  Now I'm confused and can't remember the difference between a herx and a flare.

Maz, I am on Mepron, 2 tsp. twice a day, and have been on this for a few months, along with zithromax, tindamax and minocin.  I got this hair-brained idea to switch up the babesia protocol, and add qualaquin during my IV clindamycin weeks.  My doctor agreed, but she insisted I keep my current protocol, and ADD the quinine with the clindy.  So, stupid me, it was like a double-whammy,  2 babesia protocols at once!  Maybe it was the Mepron, in combination with all the other drugs that gave me the rash.

Michelle and Michele, I'm back to my old halfway-good self.  It's comforting to know you're not the only one who has experienced such things.  The weird thing is, my red bumps aren't itchy.  My ankles itched at first, but went away after the bath. 

Go figure….I think I'm learning (maybe a little too slowly) that you can't overdo anything; abx, detox, exercise.  Don't we all just want to have this behind us ;)?

thanks all,
nancy

[lynnie_sydney]

[user=1552]nspiker[/user] wrote:

Lynnie, if I understand what the historical protocol info states, it must have been a flare.  Is that how you interpret it?

Nancy – well kind of. The wbc points in that direction, but that's probably not enough by itself to really tell. And your llmd is probably better placed to gauge it, Lyme is a slightly different kettle of fish. Think you're  right in saying that it's probably not wise to overdo anything, tempting as it always is. Hope you feel better really soon. Lynnie

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[nspiker]

I just received my lab tests from the herx or flare from he**.  Can anyone give me guidance as to what the trigger was for this reaction?  Is it a herx, or a flare?

GGT (Range 5-85) 246

WBC (Range 4.6-10.2) 3.6

Sedrate (Range 0-20) 43

ALK Phos. (Range 35-136) 158
ALT SGPT (Range 15-65) 230
AST SGOT  (Range 5-37) 209

ImmunoCAP Total IgE (less than 25 normal) 81.9
(25-100 is equivocal)

Anyone know how to interpret these results or want to take a stab at what was going on?  I would appreciate an educated guess or any input you can provide, based on your own experience :crying:.

thanks, nancy

[Author]

Posts