Flagyl drug induced illness or Infection …now worried!

[patchoulee]

Hi Everyone Happy 4th to all my American Friends,

I have a question! As many of you may or may not know I got this rheumatic illness after suffering from a bad bacterial infection. So after all my reading I am assuming I still have some type of infection and thus AP would be a good thing for me.

However some people burst my bubble today while posting on another board ( which I will never do again) when I told my story and said I was treated with high doses of Flagyl to kill the infection then 10 days after I stopped the flagyl I woke up with full body joint pain etc.

So now I being bombarded by people telling me this was triggered by the Flagyl NOT the infection which is means AP will do nothing for me.

I have been trying to google and found all kinds of med's that cause people to have Rheumatic issue's but nothing on Flagyl that I can find.

Looking to see what you all think? I know drugs can cause drug induced Lupus etc.. But does anyone know if the flagyl could have done this to me? I know you all are very knowlegable in this area so I though you could maybe help

Thanks Angela

[Maz]

[user=310]pathcoulee[/user] wrote:

I have a question! As many of you may or may not know I got this rheumatic illness after suffering from a bad bacterial infection. So after all my reading I am assuming I still have some type of infection and thus AP would be a good thing for me.

However some people burst my bubble today while posting on another board ( which I will never do again) when I told my story and said I was treated with high doses of Flagyl to kill the infection then 10 days after I stopped the flagyl I woke up with full body joint pain etc.

So now I being bombarded by people telling me this was triggered by the Flagyl NOT the infection which is means AP will do nothing for me.

I have been trying to google and found all kinds of med's that cause people to have Rheumatic issue's but nothing on Flagyl that I can find.

Hi Angela, 

I thought I recognized your user name, “Pathcoulee,” so I went to go check the archives and found your post of April 7th. If you don't mind sharing, for what infection were you prescribed the Flagyl?

On this link at Drugs.com, Flagyl has been known to cause “fleeting joint pains” (see near bottom of page under, “Miscellaneous.” However, whether or not this could be a herx symptom of some underlying, but not yet overt condition, is not really clear. Some people do experience a form of mino-induced Lupus from minocycline, but may not have a confirmed diagnosis for Lupus, for instance. Again, it's questionable (or not) whether this form of induced Lupus is a herx from a latent form of the disease that just hasn't manifested as yet.

http://www.drugs.com/ppa/metronidazole.html

Flagyl is prescribed for a number of different types of infections – not limited to the gut – but including protozoal-type infections in addition to the better known c-difficile, an anaerobic gut bacterium that can be the result of antibiotic use that strips the gut lining of good bacteria (or can even picked up in hospital settings) and causing bloody, loose stools.

One AP doctor that I know of, Dr S in TN/GA, who brought his own RA into remission, incorporates Flagyl pulses into his AP regimen for his patients. It is quite a powerful drug, though, so something that needs to be closely monitored by a doctor. My personal thoughts about the rationale for Dr S's use of this protocol is that this doctor probably suspects anerobic bacteria/protozoa in the gut have a good deal to do with rheumatoid disease.  As you feel this is an important clue in your condition, it may even be worth seeing if you could arrange a consult/phone consult with Dr S doc to get an informed AP doc opinion?

None of us are doctors here, so we can't really tell you what caused what. Although, if your initial infection was c difficile, it may be true that you would need to be sure that this very resistant infection was cleared from your gut before starting any type of antibiotic therapy, because – as my layman's understanding of it is that antibiotics can cause/exacerbate c difficile.

You also mentioned in your previous post of April 7th that you had Lupus-like and RA-like symptoms, so you may find it better, if you decide to start AP, hopefully with the help of a good AP doc, to try an alternative antibiotic other than minocycline, which can elicit mino-induced Lupus-like symptoms.

In truth, only a qualified AP doctor can tell you if you are a good candidate for AP therapy or not. Were you able to find one in Sask? If not and you'd like a list for Canada (there are a few listed for Alberta) or a listing of the best AP docs in the US, if you're willing to travel, just jot a note to apdoctors@roadback.org

Hope you're able to figure this out soon…sounds like you've been seeking answers to this problem for quite a few months now. 😕

Wishing you all the best in your searches.

Peace, Maz

[patchoulee]

I wish I knew what “kind” of an infection all they tell me is that it's of unkown origon   I had symptoms of it once in 2006 prior to having a rheumatic illness they gave me various antibiotics and it didn't go away so then they tried Flagyl the infection symptoms went away but 10 days after I started it then all my joint pain etc started. and then I had a positive ANA.  So I assumed that the infection that I had triggered the postive ANA and antibodies but now I am being told on another board that the flagyl perscription I was given in 2006 likely caused all this and not the infection.

I was taking Flagyl again last month for the same infection symptoms but I quit the flagyl once I found out it can cause lupus induced disorders or so I am told. I wasn't looking for anyone to tell me what caused my illness I was just looking to see if anyone knew if Flagyl was one of the drugs that triggered rheumatic illness

 

Thanks

 

[Maz]

[user=310]pathcoulee[/user] wrote:

So I assumed that the infection that I had triggered the postive ANA and antibodies but now I am being told on another board that the flagyl perscription I was given in 2006 likely caused all this and not the infection.

I was taking Flagyl again last month for the same infection symptoms but I quit the flagyl once I found out it can cause lupus induced disorders or so I am told. I wasn't looking for anyone to tell me what caused my illness I was just looking to see if anyone knew if Flagyl was one of the drugs that triggered rheumatic illness

Hi Angela,

I just did some further searches to see if I could find anything, as well, regarding drug-induced lupus and which drugs have been associated with it.

E-Medicine lists quite a few drugs, but Metronidazole (Flagyl) doesn't appear to be listed amongst them. 

http://www.emedicine.com/derm/topic107.htm

Maybe I'm not understanding something…. I'm just not very clear why a drug-induced lupus reaction to Flagyl – if that might have been what happened – means you wouldn't be a good candidate for trying AP? Even if you didn't use minocycline (which has been occasionally associated with 'drug-induced' lupus), but another abx?

Unless someone else here can figure out why you would have been told that AP wouldn't work for you (you may get more replies after the long holiday weekend here), your best bet is to seek out the advice of an experienced AP physician, who would be able to assess your medical history, before you let this concern you. No doubt your fellow patients on the other bulletin board had your best interests at heart, but when unusual drug reactions occur, it's always a good idea to get professional insight. As you want to try AP, an experienced AP physician would be your best bet.

A frequent Road Back bulletin board member, JBJBJB, who may be able to share her experience of MCTD and flagyl is currently on vacation, but should be back sometime in the next few weeks. You could try sending her a private message, so that she gets it upon her return.

Thanks for your July 4th good wishes…it's been a washout here in the tri-state region, so we've put off our planned BBQ till tomorrow in the hopes it will be a bit brighter. Hope you had a good Canada Day! I'm Canadian, too (born in Swift Current, Sask), so I was celebrating along with all my fellow Canucks in spirit on July 1st.  😉

Peace, Maz

[patchoulee]

Thanks Maz,

Appreciate I googled for 6 hours today and couldn't find anything that says Flagyl causes drug induced lupus symptoms. However this lady ( who says she also is a Dr) is insisting on this other thread not sure if I can link it here or not that she sees this happen all the time with flagyl.

I am seeing an AP doc in AB but not till end of October so I will just wait and see what he says when I get there.

Thanks

 

Angela

 

 

[Lynne G.SD]

Hi Angela;
           I really wonder if this may not be a herx reaction.I am on Metronidazole also and it along with Zith really hit hard.One thing about antifungals and Metro that has antifungal properties is that it is very hard on the liver and one should have  a liver enzyme test done every couple of weeks.What disease do you have or are you not sure yet.By the way mino does not cause Lupus ,you get lupus like symptoms that go away once  the antibiotic is cleared from the body.I have been around this board for almost 9 years and do not know of anyone who got full blown lupus from  it or any other antibiotic.I have an excellent AP doc in Ottawa and she has never had a case either.    Lynne

[patchoulee]

Thanks Lynne not a herx though as I am talking about taking flagyl before I got rheumatic issues for an unrelated illness. THEN after taking flagyl is when I started having arthritic problems and a high ANA etc.. So basically people are telling flagyl was the trigger for my AI issues.

Thanks though

Angela

 

[Maz]

[user=310]pathcoulee[/user] wrote:

However this lady ( who says she also is a Dr) is insisting on this other thread not sure if I can link it here or not that she sees this happen all the time with flagyl.

Hi Angela,

I find it kind of odd that a doctor would dispense this kind of information online without examining you, running tests or knowing your personal history. Whenever I've visited medical discussion boards moderated by docs, they don't normally brandish advice (in your case saying that you're not a candidate for AP). In fact, they often state this as a disclaimer and may just offer leads to follow with your own doctor. No wonder you're a bit concerned by this.

The other thing that concerns me is that if Flagyl is known to cause “autoimmune diseases” – not just a transient herx/drug-induced side-effect – and this doctor “sees this happen all the time,” then has this doc been reporting all these cases? Have other doctors been reporting that they've seen it in their patients, too? If it's a common occurance, why hasn't Flagyl been withdrawn from the market?  Why hasn't there been some kind of class action suit taken by the victims?

I really don't get it and I think you're very wise to have done your own research, to trust your gut and to follow this up with your Alberta AP doc in October. Please let us know how you get on in October, Angela, and wishing you well in the meantime.

Peace, Maz

 

[patchoulee]

Yah I know too funny now I just went back to the site to see if she responded to my last message and now she is saying it was a typing error and she is not a Dr she used to work for a Dr. YAh what ever I guess it shows you that you never know who is saying what on the internet.

 

Angela

[Author]

Posts