Epsom Salt Footbath for Herx?

[TischSEB]

Hi,

We are having a few rough days of what looks like a herx here (massive periodic sweating/fatigue/sleeping/allover migrating myalgia) – and I am trying to come up with ways to help my patient detox (already drinking lots of water, Milk Thistle, OTC, ibuprofen).

There is just no possibility of a full epsom bath due to not being able to get out of the bathtub (we have tried – a very demoralizing experience) – so I was wondering if anyone does just a salt footbath and finds it to be effective?

Any thoughts welcome!
Tks
Tisch

[lynnie_sydney]

Tisch – I think SEB's myalgia is probably related to magnesium depeletion – and probably electrolytes also – caused by the massive sweating. Profuse sweating will always deplete the body of electrolytes and magnesium.

A few months back, I went through a phase of very severe night sweats (i.e. several bucket loads that required change of bed linen, clothes etc). Within a few days, I was also experiencing excruciating muscle aches in my legs – almost unbearable. I started to take an electrolyte replacement and take a very good oral magnesium complex. That wasnt enough obviously to replace what I was losing. What finally made the difference was to add a magnesium cream, topically applied each evening. The difference within a few days was remarkable. Hope he finds some relief soon. Lynnie

 

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[mj47]

hi tisch,

oh man, sorry to hear about the current state of affairs over there. 
i don't see why you wouldn't try an epsom salt foot bath…it could help to at least relax your 'patient' while he sits comfortably.  i have tried to get my guy to do them when his ankles were swollen, but he was too stubborn & didn't want to, so i don't have any real world experience as to whether it would help or not, but i certainly don't think it could hurt. 
who knows…every little bit of detoxing can help during a herx.  they have those patches that you can put on the soles of your feet for detoxing, so, perhaps the feet can expel some toxins.

sure hope things settle fast for you guys.  sending detoxing thoughts your way!!

~mj

[Kash]

Is the creme over the counter or an Rx?
Thanks!

[lynnie_sydney]

It's over the counter, Kash. Should be able to get some at most health outlets. Tish, the epsom salts are magnesium sulphate which should help replenish the magnesium also, but I'd still go for a cream or oil as well as a good magnesium complex oral tab. Lynnie 

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[Parisa]

Tisch,

The massive sweating and muscle aches can also be a symptom of Babesia.  Have you gotten in to an LLMD yet?

[lynnie_sydney]

Parisa – you are right. However, in the Burrascano 2008 Treatment Guidelines, severe magnesium depletion is cited as a very common symptom in Lyme and co-infections. (It doesnt give a reason, but I'm suspecting the profuse sweating could be a cause). Either way, IMO the magnesium replenishment would be a good thing to do. Lynnie

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[TischSEB]

Hi Lynnie,

Thanks for this info. We made it over the hump this time, I am going to have some topical magnesium cream on hand to try! Will post on how it goes…

MJ,

Thanks for your detoxing thoughts!! I laughed when I read about your guy's stubbornness. I am dealing with that all the time, but I am probably provoking it with excessive hovering…

Parisa,

Yes now have an LLMD on the case, and will probably discuss AB IV options at our next appt (Monday). SEB did test negative for Babesia through Igenex, but I know that probably means nothing. I have a feeling just based on the severity, that this was a herx (he has been on LLMD prescribed Doryx for 4-5 weeks). The muscle “pain” is a relatively new development (months old), whereas for a long time the problem was weakness without pain. At one point, when he was on no meds while waiting for insurance approval of IVIG, he had severe “burning” in his thighs, which corresponded with his most rapid deterioration + elevated CPK. This new muscle pain seems to travel as well, much in the way as is described by RA patients. Sometimes it is his lower back, or a painful stiff neck, or his chest muscles. A lot of times he wakes up with allover body soreness, that feels better as he moves around. The symptoms have definitely evolved since the onset, where they were painless”proximal muscle weakness” plus the heart issue.
Long story short – we will definitely bring up treating this if basic lyme treatment only goes so far.

Tks for all your responses and good advice!
Tisch

[Parisa]

Tisch,

My husband had the migrating muscle pains almost from the beginning of his illness so that is something we defnitely faced.  You never know what's going to hurt next.  And my husband tested negative for babesia on Igenex and another lab (I can't remember the name, MDL??) but we treated based on symptoms and those symptoms went away with the malaria/antiprotozoal drugs.  Good luck on your appointment on Monday.

[mj47]

tisch,

glad to hear you guys got past that.  and, i had to laugh at your comment about “provoking with excessive hovering”…something i have to remind myself to not do!

take care!
~mj

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