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I'm currently dealing with a fungal overgrowth (patchy, itchy rash on my neck, shoulders, and back). I plan to start using grapefruit seed extract tomorrow to help combat this problem. I'm also procuring some “heavier” duty probiotics (VSL-3) and will start those tomorrow too. I'll continue with my current probiotics too. My diet is nearly starch-free (due to AS). I consume no refined sugar. My only sources of dietary sugar are from honey, fruit, dairy (kefir or yogurt only), and any other naturally occuring sugars. I'm going to attempt try to eliminate they honey, fruit, and dairy for a couple of weeks too. I have a few questions:
1) Should I discontinue minocycline until I get this fungus under control, or is it OK to continue the with the antibiotic while I wrestle with the fungus? GSE also has antibiotic properties, therefore, do I need to exercise caution if taking the two concurrently (e.g. do I need to reduce my frequency of mino — I take 50mg every other day)?
2) If I need to discontinue the mino until I've reigned in the fungus, do I risk the mino not being effective when I restart it?
3) Once I'm back to baseline, is it advisable to continue with the GSE or another anti-fungal while taking the mino?
4) Has anyone had success overcoming fungal overgrowths by adhering to a low-sugar diet as opposed to no-sugar diet?
I appreciate your help. Thank you.
My apologies for having to reply to my own post. I guess I'm a little perplexed. I routinely read posts that state that an individual can get more information and help with an antibiotic protocol and related issues from this board than they can from a prescribing doctor. While I'm still apt to believe this, I was hoping that a volunteer or another member of this board could help me sort out a few things in relation to this fungal overgrowth with which I'm dealing. The most pressing issue is, do I need to stop my mino dose until the fungus is gone? Again, any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
[user=290]louris[/user] wrote:
I'm currently dealing with a fungal overgrowth (patchy, itchy rash on my neck, shoulders, and back). I plan to start using grapefruit seed extract tomorrow to help combat this problem. I'm also procuring some “heavier” duty probiotics (VSL-3) and will start those tomorrow too. I'll continue with my current probiotics too. My diet is nearly starch-free (due to AS). I consume no refined sugar. My only sources of dietary sugar are from honey, fruit, dairy (kefir or yogurt only), and any other naturally occuring sugars. I'm going to attempt try to eliminate they honey, fruit, and dairy for a couple of weeks too. I have a few questions:
1) Should I discontinue minocycline until I get this fungus under control, or is it OK to continue the with the antibiotic while I wrestle with the fungus? GSE also has antibiotic properties, therefore, do I need to exercise caution if taking the two concurrently (e.g. do I need to reduce my frequency of mino — I take 50mg every other day)?
2) If I need to discontinue the mino until I've reigned in the fungus, do I risk the mino not being effective when I restart it?
3) Once I'm back to baseline, is it advisable to continue with the GSE or another anti-fungal while taking the mino?
4) Has anyone had success overcoming fungal overgrowths by adhering to a low-sugar diet as opposed to no-sugar diet?
I appreciate your help. Thank you.
Hi Louris,
Sorry your post got overlooked! Sometimes that happens when the board gets busy, but it's nothing personal. Do realize you're suffering, though, so feel bad that this got missed. My apologies.
I think some of the questions are probably best directed to a physician to be sure, but will do my best to answer what I would do, patient-to-patient.
Might interest you to know that Dr S in GA/TN recommends the use of Nizoral Shampoo or Selsun Blue for skin fungus. Although the fungus may be systemic, taking this measure should help with itching or discomfort.
In answer to your questions:
1. If you suspect systemic candida, then a systemic anti-fungal would be a good idea, such as Diflucan. Nystatin is also used, but tends to be a “wash-through” of the gut. Diflucan is a powerful anti-fungal agent and my doc preferred me not to take antibiotics while I was on it…with one week before and after as a washout period before commencing Diflucan and then later recommencing antibiotics. However, I was on very high, daily doses of Diflucan for about a month and then did two week pulses later….a Lyme protocol, called “The Shardt Protocol.” This is because it is a drug that can be hard on the liver in high doses and over long periods of time. However, for people pulsing in low dose diflucan, e.g. 1 tab a week…it should be okay to remain on the diflucan without stopping AP. In fact, I just took a diflucan tab yesterday on my day off mino. I also take 2 grapeseed extract caps every day, as per Dr S's recommendations to help reduce inflammation, so it should be okay to take this with your mino on your on or off days.
2. Brief periods of stopping mino shouldn't be a problem in terms of response, although you may experience renewed herxing when you resume. Again, though, if you're just using grapeseed extract and nizoral shampoo, you shouldn't have to stop your mino, which is a very low dose, anyway.
3. If you can find a doc to prescribe your diflucan…I beleive Dr S does this, then you will have some on hand to pulse in to your protocol on a regular basis (as per his instructions). I take grapeseed extract continuously, as an adjunct to probiotics to ward off fungus (it is also supposed to help with inflammation).
4. Really, it's recommended to avoid all processed sugars when experiencing an overt fungal infection. Some say even fruit sugars. I personally believe in keeping my diet as balanced as possible, so I don't exclude natural sugars ever. However, it's a good idea to become a label reader….lots of things contain high fructose sugars….some yogurts, for instance. Sugar is the food of fungus/candida…so it's a good idea to avoid it at all times while on abx and trying to maintain a good fauna/flora balance in the gut.
You can find lots more info on fungus/candida by typing in these key words in the search box above and also the old bulletin board. If you need the link to find the old board, I'd be happy to post it for you, but on the main discussion thread page, you will find a permanent thread at the top that says something like “old bulletin board”…instructions are there on how to access it. You're not alone….this is a problem many of us experience and so it's discussed often.
Hope this helps, Louris, and hopefully other will chime in with their experiences to share with you. Definitely worth trying the Nizoral shampoo or Selzen Blue shampoo trick, though. 😉
Peace, Maz
Maz and John H, thank you for replies.
I will try and find a doctor to prescribe diflucan (I fired my last GP and haven't sourced a new one yet) and will consider the Nizoral Shampoo or Selsun Blue should it affect my scalp. I will also look into finding any lotion containing Benzalkonium Chloride to help the external manifestation of this fungus. I did search the historical posts (to help me understand if anyone has used Grapefruit Seed Extract for fungal overgrowths while on their AP and also discovered VSL#3 as a potent probiotic), but did not tap into the old BB posts.
I'm still vacillating, based on your response Maz, whether to stop the mino. However, it is likely that I will stop this weekend. I've drastically cut much of these sugars from my diet and will likely eliminate all sugars for up to two weeks. I hope I'm making progress.
Sorry to be pushy about replies to my post. Thanks again.
Louris, no worries…I understand how you must have felt. 😉 Just sorry your post was missed. All the volunteers are really dedicated, but we're just human and we're patients, too. Sometimes things get inadvertantly missed, so just glad you brought it to our attention…we do try not to let any posts get “left behind,” even if we don't have an answer.
I think Dr S meant for the Nizoral and Selzen Blue shampoos to be applied anywhere on the body (other than mucous membranes – eyes, mouth, privates)…to apply it to the skin for a few mins and then to shower it off, as you would with a dandruff shampoo. So, not just for the scalp.
Peace, Maz
[user=290]louris[/user] wrote:
My apologies for having to reply to my own post. I guess I'm a little perplexed. I routinely read posts that state that an individual can get more information and help with an antibiotic protocol and related issues from this board than they can from a prescribing doctor. While I'm still apt to believe this, I was hoping that a volunteer or another member of this board could help me sort out a few things in relation to this fungal overgrowth with which I'm dealing. The most pressing issue is, do I need to stop my mino dose until the fungus is gone? Again, any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
Louris,
I was fortunate to be able to speak with Dr. Wm Crook (pediatric allergist by training and yeast/fungal researcher of necessity to get his children patients well). He had started a non-profit foundation after several years, and sent a letter whenever anyone made a contribution, telling them he would be available for a 3-minute consultation.
Following his books and guidelines had helped me greatly. Edit/added 092908: One of the most effective products his protocol included was Grapefruit Seed Extract , a liquid which I took in V-8 Mild Picante juice (4 ozs) beginning with 5 drops of GSE and gradually increasing up to 15 drops; I found the NOW brand was much more effective than the Source Naturals brand I tried). (Another recommended anti yeast/anti fungal was caprylic acid.) This is a Discussion Topic I started to share/learn more information about Grapefruit Seed Extract (GSE):
http://www.rbfbb.org/view_topic.php?id=1189&forum_id=1&highlight=GSE
When I had an opportunity to speak with Dr. Crook for 3 minutes on the phone, about my concerns, after hearing what I had to say, he said I needed to find a “kindly physician” to prescribe and follow my taking Diflucan longterm. Of the RX class of antifungal, it is my belief that it is the most effective. There were cautions about checking liver enzymes while on it. I had to be on it daily for about 4 months. Every day on it, I could feel myself improving. I was told it would be I who would know when Diflucan had done its job. I did. Dr. Crook told me that staying on the program I had been on prior to the Diflucan would eventually turn things around. However, I was detoxing so much at night — fever, chills, and nightsweats — that he said he was concerned that it was wearing me out. Remember, I had had an infection in my head/sinuses for two years, which had led to severe chronic illness, unknown systemic yeast overgrowth, and even showed up on MRI ordered by a neurologist; so the amount/length of detoxing needed was probably far more and more difficult to reach (though it definitely seemed to be reaching/detoxing it). I definitely was sweating out a lot of minerals, etc., for I began having charlie horses in my legs. For me, Diflucan was a godsend. Dr. Crook is now gone, but I am so thankful for his presence and help with my illness about 1994.
Hope this is helpful for you. Just to be clear — it's my belief that some of us must watch our diets and keep out the yeast-loving foods/beverages, take probiotics, take antifungals, AND for myself, I would certainly consider taking at least one Minocin on MWF just to keep the mycoplasma somewhat under control. There are, no doubt, many other important things I have not enumerated here. This is not advice for you, however; this is just (on years of hindsight for myself) what I would do in a situation like you describe.
Edited/added: I continued to think about what I wrote about the taking of Minocin once a day on MWF, while taking Diflucan daily. I just called my compounding druggist friend, and he was on vacation. Another pharmacist there told me there was no contra-indication for taking both Minocin and Diflucan, as long as the physician prescribed them, but agreed that there should be at least a couple of hours away from any other meds, supplements, . Again, good luck.
Blessings,
AF
[user=76]john h[/user] wrote:
Hi- I have had a tough time with some sort of fungus on my toenails for years- I tried everything with no results, until I happened upon a lotion that had the active ingredient Benzalkonium Chloride. This has worked. The link below is for a lotion which I am using now- It has the same ingredient.
http://hardtofindbrands.com/diabetes/products_detail.cfm?ItemNum=5998&search=all
jh
Hello John H,
I'd like you to consider the idea that you may still have systemic fungal/yeast issues in your body — gut-related perhaps and in connective tissues. Sometimes the toe can be a red flag to warn us of its presence. For the heck of it, get some pH strips and see whether your body is an acidic one which unfriendly organisms look for and thrive in. When we are highly acidic, they grow and multiply, and go on to cause other serious problems — especially can cause our cells to become anerobic, lacking oxygen.
Good luck to you,
[user=76]john h[/user] wrote:
Hello again, I guess I should qualify my earlier post. I don't mean to suggest that a lotion would cure anybody of anything, but rather that it can help to control these external, “nuisance” symptoms while you solve the real problem. When I first started to get really sick, ( RA, at first sero negative, about 10 years ago), one of the biggest obstacles was getting proper rest. If you are constant pain, or discomfort, like itching really bad, it takes a toll over time. I would never argue that anyone who has found their way to this forum could fix it by using a lotion, although I would sooner bet on the lotion than on a lot of the other things I read about.
jh
John, about that lotion. I believe there are lots of things that can help, including the lotion you mentioned.
One of best feeling things I do for myself is to dump a 1 lb box of Bicarbonate of Soda into a tub of comfortably hot water and soak for at least 20 minutes. preferably at bedtime. (I buy several of these boxes at a time at W-M for about 59 cents, I believe. This BS is also very good for fungus, and it also makes our acidic body more alkaline.
I also have found Epson Salts (magnesium) very good for this. Long ago I tried it with hydrogen peroxide mixed in — had heard how great it was together. All it did for me was for cause me to break out in hives for two or three weeks. So, I never tried the peroxide combo again. I don't believe I've heard anyone else say that they broke out in hives using this combo. Just goes to show that we are all different.
Thanks for your post. And welcome aboard.
AF
I think the active ingredient in Nizoral is ketoconazole, an antibiotic that is especially good at targeting fungus. The same med, ketonconazole, can be purchased as a prescription skin cream.
Louris
If you could manage without the Mino for a while to treat the fungus it would help but you can treat it with a systemic at the same time but keep it well away from abx and supps. A good one we have here is Grisovin when it is bad. I have the same problem. Keep the dose low and work your way into it slowly as you will herx from it as well. You need a daily dose of something but may not be able to take too much to start. You really need it the day you take the abx say later in the day.I usually take it 3-4 hours after the abx treatment is finished.
Honey, I am sorry to say is just as bad as sugar I am afraid. I think it would be a good idea to ease up on the fruit as well until you have it under control that is what I have had to do. It sure makes a difference. There is still a certain amount it Vegs but we need them. Eat plenty of vegs and meat or nuts, and rice with the starch washed out of it is great. You will get it under control if you work at it.
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