Boron and Arthritis (all types)

[A Friend]

@Krys wrote:

@jaminhealth wrote:

….and yes pH is critical.
As of late, I use pH drops (Body Rescue) in all my drinking water and also use lemon juice and some baking soda where I need it.
Gotta keep the alkaline as too much acid keeps us in pain more, and cancer loves an acidic environment.

Yes, pH is very important. But going very enthusiastic about it can create problems, too.
People with chronic diseases usually have digestive problems and often do not produce enough stomach acid. Taking baking soda too close to the meals may exacerbate digestion issues and then exacerbate other health issues.
This link is about hypochlorhydria and problems due to it: http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=13388
“The stomach requires acid environment for several reasons:
-…for the digestion of protein
-..for the stomach to empty correctly, and failure to do so results in gastro-esophageal reflux disease (GERD).
-..to sterilize the stomach and kill bacteria and yeast that may be ingested.
-..for the absorption of certain micronutrients…such as calcium, magnesium, zinc, copper, iron, selenium, boron, and so on.
Possible problems with low stomach acid:
Failure to digest food properly….malabsorption of proteins…osteoporosis…degenerative conditions…
Failure to absorb trace elements. (….)
Malabsorption of Vit. B12″

Veggies have alkalizing effect, too!

It’s possible that the need for caution does not apply to you.
Maybe I was too enthusiastic or it is just my body that insists on doing everything slowly, but I created quite a few problems for myself, more than once, with ACV, baking soda, lemon juice. Each time it took me a few months to get back to “normal”. I still use all of them, I just do it more cautiously now and I make sure I watch for stomach reactions after the meals. I often supplement with digestive enzymes and Betain&Peptin, especially with heavier meals or meals with diverse foods.
Warm wishes, Krys

Jam, Krys, All…. Can’t reinforce Krys’ cautions above too much!!! I’ve learned another lesson “the hard way”. Over a number of years, after beginning AP and getting so much better — even accidentally finding a way to reverse a severe wasting syndrome I was in and regain many lost pounds, which apparently must have led to better absorption during that period of time. But, over the years following this period, and paying attention to a good diet, etc., it was surprising to me when I again began developing a slow-revealing number of new problems — which at the present time, I have to ascribe to lack of ability to properly absorb/digest that good food and much of those good supplements. (EDIT: To this needs to be added: “to properly detoxify, probably because my body could not break down meat protein to extract the needed amino acids. For a six months period, even way back then, when I had a reaction when Zith pulsed was added to Minocin pulsed and I had a huge reaction — for 6 months I used Dr. Paul Cheney’s research with my AP physician’s blessings, and 6 months later when tested, the abnormal lab, for which I was taking the Zith, showed normal. A number of years later, I now know much more about the supplement ImmunoPro I took then, and how necessary amino acids are, and have returned to its use over the past number of months.)

The acidosis which began a good bit later (after about 7 great years of feeling like a normal person after beginning AP) became gradually more and more severe and was a real mystery after doing so well and thinking everything was being addressed! At the time I didn’t know the year-long (or longer) pain in my tissues and bones was because my body had used up, and continued to use up, all the minerals it had available. Though I’d heard about pH, I thought all bases were covered. Fortunately, an ND friend I asked if she had any idea what could be going on (as my AP physician at that time kept telling me my labs were quite good and he couldn’t find anything wrong), she asked if I had tested my pH. I did the first testing, and that was the key that unlocked the problem — I was as acidic as the strips could measure.

I began voraciously studying, and this knowledge led to more answers. But, some of these answers arrived AFTER I had discovered how much damage to my bones that long period of maldigestion, malabsorption, and using up all my available minerals and having to borrow/steal them from tissues and bone to keep my body at the absolute range that our blood pH HAS TO BE to maintain life. One more BIG thing here, also associated with these two “mal” words, our body must have all of the amino acids in order for bodies to do all of the many feats it must do to keep our body healthy and detoxified (a biggie is each night between about 1am and 3 am, if we have what it needs, our metabolic detoxification takes place. If not, my guess here is that even more acidic waste gets stored in our body, as far away from our major organs as the body can store them. This is what I learned can also go on to cause sciatica… which I had never had until shortly before I learned about my severe acidosis.

Hope some of the above, along with Krys’ words/posts of wisdom, will help those of you who have not yet learned about these things that can give us a false sense of security. One of the latest BIG things in solving my own problems (probably yours, too) is to become really knowledgeable of Dr. Linus Pauling’s research about Vitamin C. We humans have not been able to make this in eons of years. I highly recommend you find a way to become knowledgeable, either by ordering an updated copy of his book (contains research updates applicable to some portions relating to orthomolecular medicine… what the body is composed of, how it works, what it needs, how we can compensate, etc….my words here); go to LPI and read on various topics; research the work of ACIM physicians and ACAM, as these physicians it appears try to incorporate what really “first do no harm”… and often can reverse many symptoms/problems.

Blessings to you all, and hopes for better health,
AF

[PhilC]

Be careful with boron. It causes an increase in estrogen (and testosterone to some extent), which may or may not be a good thing. Back in 2003 I took 3 mg of boron (as Cal-Mag-Boron) every day for about a month, but had to stop because I started growing breasts. I hadn’t had any problems (that I know of) when I was getting 150 mcg of boron daily in a multivitamin, but 3 mg was apparently too much. Since then, I’ve strictly avoided all supplements that contain any amount of boron because it seems that I am now sensitive to even small amounts of it.

Some studies that mention the effect of boron on sex hormones:

The effect of boron supplementation on its urinary excretion and selected cardiovascular risk factors in healthy male subjects.

Biochemical and physiologic consequences of boron deprivation in humans.

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[A Friend]

@Ruffian wrote:

A friend–

That was an amazing, informative post.

Thank you!

Cass

Cass,

Thanks, hope there’s something helpful in my post and in the links below, for you, Jam, and everyone else. My reply here is to pass on some words that got my attention when I read them when I was reading/learning more about acidosis. One of the researchers or doctors (can’t recall which one at the moment, but hopefully will) commented, or used as a title: “Fibromyalgia is an Acid Disease.” I couldn’t find the same article/reference, but found three that, in my opinion, can help educate us on this subject.

The most important words that I might possibly pass on, that sums up the consequences of all the things going on with me during these many years now, is that the acidic wastes that built up from many sources and problems, gradually lead to serious cartilage, connective tissue, capillary, bone, etc. and other problems, even after the pain from acidosis was quenched. Unfortunately, there was/is no “magic bullet” for most of us patients. But, most of us never (formally 😆 ) went to medical school. For what it’s worth: I believe our physicians should know more about help for chronic illnesses. If they would all get on the “same page” and study orthomolecular medicine along with what they now study, our chances probably would be much better. Hopefully, in the future, such organizations as ACIM will be the rule rather than the exception. And research, such as LPI, will be given the respect and importance in healing it is due. In order to rebuild cartilage and bone, I believe we must come to recognize how especially important high-dose Vitamin C/Ascorbate is, and the many other vitamins and minerals found to be therapeutically necessary in controlled research studies over many years.

Best,
AF

PS Here are three links I hurriedly found — but recognized that all three, from my own journey, can have great teaching/learning value — before turning around the acidosis saga of my own, I even developed an ATP mitochrondial problem triggered by the acidosis:

http://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Fibromyalgia_-_possible_causes_and_implications_for_treatment
Fibromyalgia – possible causes and implications for treatment

http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/home/eng/fibromyalgia.asp
Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue

[jaminhealth]

Body Rescue pH drops are great, I add them to all my drinking water…..swansons and vitacost sell them….

Is the verdict now that Boron is NOT a good thing for our joint issues? jam

[A Friend]

@Ruffian wrote:

A friend-

Do you think ImmunoPro helped you turn the corner? I do take a Whey protein shake and always feel better the next day.

There are so many variables to my inflammation and pain. It’s like a chemistry experiment. Challenging to say the least.

Cass,

I don’t know what type of whey protein you have been using for your shake, but there are a number of different kinds of products. The type that is supposed to be the most therapeutic, and has the most beneficial results for all of the necessary metabolic functions in which amino acids are involved, is “nondenatured” whey protein. That is said to mean that all of its properties are in their most potent state and have not been compromised. This was the type product I used a number of years ago when I had a severe reaction to being on two abx pulsed on alternate days. Apparently, my liver didn’t like what the two abxes were doing, and after about a month sent out what I can only describe as “taser-like” pain… that lasted for a week or two, except when I was on a strong pain med. When this stage passed, I knew I would not be getting back on either of the abx. But, felt I needed to use something beneficial for the abnormal lab.

I had just learned about Dr. Paul Cheney’s longtime work with patients with Chronic Fatigue and Fibromyalgia, and his success with use of this same product — except then they were referring to the whey protein as “undenatured.” This was later corrected to read “nondenatured” — as what has never been denatured, does not have to be “undenatured” — it has always been nondenatured. I mentioned this work and product to my then-AP physician. He actually had known Dr. PC well, as they had lived in the same city years before. My AP doctor was enthusiastic that I should use it for 6 months (the time shown that it took for it to clear a problem such as I had. At the end of 6 months, my doc had new lab work drawn, and it came back normal. On hindsight, I should have stayed on it for the longhaul, as it was doing a very good job. I didn’t know then, what I’ve more recently learned about all of the things amino acids have the responsibility to do in the body.

I thought of this product again about mid-year of 2011 when I again learned I had some pretty serious and new problems. Except this time I learned even more about the necessity of the amino acids and how one of their big duties was in metabolic detoxification, and during sleep each night they regularly help the body detox. (I may be repeating in this reply things I’ve written in a reply above, but can’t recall specifically.) If you will go to General Discussion, there is a little search window that you can type in words to search. You might use “amino acids” and see if it finds any of the posts about this the last half of 2011 and earlier this year (2012). I began learning also how valuable, necessary, and therapeutic enzymes are for certain bodily functions. I think it best to locate some of the titles and links, which reinforced what we need to know and do. I began taking ImmunoPro again last year, and it again came to my rescue. I will privately share with you some of the things taking this did. I had begun using it twice a day, and had to stop for several weeks, as twice was causing too much of a good thing. I added a really good liver support supplement, and started back on the ImmunoPro once a day. Before long I will again go to twice a day, but I really believe we might all benefit from using something for liver support, as our liver plays such a big part in our body’s detoxification. (Thankfully, our livers can regenerate!!!)

I know I keep “parroting” Vitamin C, but even in some of the most spectacular feats of orthomolecular medicine, some of these feats involve Vitamin C plus 2 or 3 amino acids — like unclogging arteries clogged with Lp(a) (a form of LDL cholesterol which the body makes when the person’s body doesn’t have enough Vitamin C and can no longer make collagen, connective tissue, etc. that builds in the capability for the artery to curve where it goes into the heart. Without Vitamin C and its substances, the body causes the making of the Lp(a) to be formed to fill holes, etc. in the artery, trying to preserve the function of the artery, since the body has no Vit C/Ascorbate to use to do this. (I’m a liberal arts girl, so forgive the improvised description.) Anyway, who knows what other veins and arteries in our body may also get clogged when we are deficient in Vitamin C.

About 3 or 4 years ago, I began having horrific nosebleeds (never had one in my life until then) and had to go to the ER. The ENT doctor had not a clue of anything I could do to help. I was afraid to leave the house. I discovered a post, by doing searches on the internet, by a young slolam skier who had figured out his own protocol for his longterm nosebleed problem. He didn’t emphasize Vit C, but Citrus Bioflavinoids were a part of his regimen. I stayed on his regimen and have not had any more nosebleeds. We humans cannot make Vitamin C, and we must! have it. Wish I had a hand wand scanner to scan some of the charts and pages of the incredible updated book of Dr. Linus Pauling.

More than you probably wanted to know,
AF

[A Friend]

@Ruffian wrote:

I just bought Vitamin C tonight. So that’s good!

Going to PM you. —

Hope the Vitamin C you got is the Sodium Ascorbate powder, as this type with the higher doses usually needed can prevent us from becoming overly acidic. I actually am enjoying this “therapy” as it tastes good and refreshing. The way I’ve settled on using it is to fill a glass with pure water, use a tiny scoop of Kal brand stevia (the only stevia I’ve liked), pour in a small amount of pure concentrated lemon juice or fresh lemon juice, with a measuring spoon add the amount of ascorbate powder. Stir well to mix and dissolve the Sodium Ascorbate powder. I like a small amount of crushed ice in it. Before I paid close attention to the doctor’s recommendation that it be taken “with meals,” I had begun having some bowel tolerance issues. Once I adhered to drinking this with meals (and take my other supplements at same time), there has been no further problems from it for myself.

Not only am I now reading much about this type Vitamin C, but I saw a local ACAM physician in January, with several medical degrees, to help me refine/reduce my supplements, and improve where I could. Among other things on the list he made for me was also high-dose vitamin C… and said to “take with meals.” I didn’t know about Dr. Linus Pauling’s extensive work with Vitamin C at that time, nor much else; and never remember hearing that humans cannot make Vitamin C. But only weeks later, as we were leaving home for a week, I saw a book on top of a box of books a son had left stored (my spouse was doing some maintenance to the storage area). I’d never seen that book, and as I was getting into the car, I picked it up to take it on the trip. (Looking back, that was an “ahaa” moment for me. I read it the whole week. It was pretty old, and written by Dr. LP himself. I wanted more copies after I had read it for a week. Actually ordered and got the last one B&N had in their ordering warehouse… but soon found that the book has been updated with any pertinent research to what Dr. LP had written then, with research findings by Linus Pauling Institute research. The book is available from them, and the price includes postage. I highly recommend this book, especially for those who have chronic illnesses and/or known genetic involvement. There is much on these subjects as well.

AF

[jaminhealth]

I’ve been using only Ascorbyl Palmitate for the last couple yrs….works best for me.

Any comments on this form? jam

[PhilC]

@jaminhealth wrote:

I’ve been using only Ascorbyl Palmitate for the last couple yrs….works best for me.

Is there any particular reason why you’re using that kind?

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[jaminhealth]

A few yrs ago, a friend and I were discussing Vit C and many have allergies to Vit C. She was telling me about this form and so I decided to take it.

Ascorbyl palmitate is a fat soluble antioxidant formed by combining ascorbic acid (vitamin C) with palmitic acid (derived from fat). Studies indicate that ascorbyl palmitate is completely metabolized, the ascorbic acid becoming available as vitamin C, and the palmitate portion is converted to energy or fat. Though palmitate from palm and other vegetable oils can increase blood cholesterol levels, the amount derived from this additive is trivial.

[A Friend]

@PhilC wrote:

Be careful with boron. It causes an increase in estrogen (and testosterone to some extent), which may or may not be a good thing. Back in 2003 I took 3 mg of boron (as Cal-Mag-Boron) every day for about a month, but had to stop because I started growing breasts. I hadn’t had any problems (that I know of) when I was getting 150 mcg of boron daily in a multivitamin, but 3 mg was apparently too much. Since then, I’ve strictly avoided all supplements that contain any amount of boron because it seems that I am now sensitive to even small amounts of it.

Some studies that mention the effect of boron on sex hormones:

The effect of boron supplementation on its urinary excretion and selected cardiovascular risk factors in healthy male subjects.

Biochemical and physiologic consequences of boron deprivation in humans.

Phil

Phil, All,

Wanted to bump this TOPIC “Boron and Arthritis (all types)” up to the current discussion for a new member. Thought many of the groups’ posts on this subject were very good, and covered a lot of good information.

Thanks for the ride, Phil…
AF

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