Anti-depressants

[Fergie]

Hi all:

Just wondering if anyone on here is or has been on anti-depressants in the past. I am thinking of going on them to see if it helps with all the depression and anxiety I have been having as of late. Did anyone see any improvements after going on them. I was thinking of Cipralex….

Thanks,
Jeff

[Kash]

I have been on Cymbalta and it has helped. The challenge with antidepressants is they don’t always work right away and there is not one that works for everyone….so you have to try, wait and if it doesn’t work, try another.

Maybe you will be lucky and the first one will work!!

Hang in there…..

[Trudi]

@Fergie wrote:

Did anyone see any improvements after going on them.

Hi Jeff–
Back in the early ’90’s when I thought I was losing my mind (the doctors agreed, it’s all in my head), I was put on Xanax for panic attacks. It made everything worse. So they put me on something stronger, don’t remember what it was, and I thought I was going to die. Thankfully, the last doctor I went to found klepsiella pneumonnia in my gut, put me on Cipro and I went into remission (I’m sure from my first bout with Lyme, although never diagnosed) until I was rebit in 2003. Needless to say, I would stay FAR away from anti-depressents.

Good luck with your decision making–
Trudi

Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

[Jan Lucinda1]

I would say do your research. A friend was on a SSRI antidepressent and had SSRI discontinuation syndrome when she went off. A 70 year old gal was put on Elavil and became disoriented, called 911. A Friend posted about depression and antidepressants you might read.

Jan

[Valsmum]

My opinion is that if you can avoid them,then do so. I have seen them make the depression much worse in one case. Another friend started to become numb and made bad choices for herself after being prescribed antidepressants, choices that I never saw them come close to before taking them. I think talking to someone you can trust ,weekly about what is bothering you would be benificial. It seems anxiety/depression comes with being in pain or unwell all the time, even Dr. Brown mentions it lifts after the patient starts to improve. He made a mention of it in the video that is on the board index.
If you are the praying kind, I would suggest praying daily and getting annointed every 3 months if that is something you can do. I talk to a preist and my family about my chronic illness and it helps so much. Don’t know if my 2 cents helped, but I hope you feel better.
Take care,
Sheri

[maz.aust]

Just putting my 2 cents worth into the mix here …

My daughter suffered badly from depression for 4 yrs after the birth of her son (yes I know it is for different reasons than you, but depression is depression…) anyway, during that time I believed she was getting worse not better even though she was on antidepressants. In desperation 12 mths ago I took her to see my AP Dr & the naturopath she works with; after testing it showed she was dangerously low on magnesium & potassium, my doctor told her that ‘depression’ was a sign of extremely low magnesium & potassium. Given both in one tablet my daughter started taking it that night, some 3 days later she felt better in herself & a month after that told me it was like her depression had started to lift, by April the depression was gone, her psych had revised his dx & she has continued to take the mag/pot supplement daily and has not had any further problems with depression.

If I could make a suggestion to you I would ask you to get tested to see what your levels are.

Maz.aust

Dec07: Diagnosed PRA, (CTD; Fibromyalgia; suspected Lyme):
Mar08: Diet to heal gut/bolster immune system (no gluten, dairy, sulphites or sugar)

Jan 2018: ABX Mon/Wed/Fri (started AP 2008)
1/2 x 150mg Roxithromycin(Biasig), 1/2 x 150mg Clarithromycin (Klacid),
1/2 x Fungillin, 1 x 250mg Cephalexin (Keflex)

All off days Probiotics

[lynnie_sydney]

Jeff – what does your LLMD say? I would certainly talk it over with him/her. Depression tends to be such a fixture in so many of these diseases and certainly in Lyme that he/she must have some insights here. And, if it were me, I would be looking for some answers in things that my body might be depleted in as a result of the infection(s). maz.aust makes a good suggestion – magnesium and potassium might be something you’d start with, it is well known that Lymies tend to be very deficient in magnesium. Take a look at the Burrascano Treatment Guidelines under supplements. Hope you feel lighter soon. Lynnie

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[A Friend]

@Fergie wrote:

Hi all:

Just wondering if anyone on here is or has been on anti-depressants in the past. I am thinking of going on them to see if it helps with all the depression and anxiety I have been having as of late. Did anyone see any improvements after going on them. I was thinking of Cipralex….

Thanks,
Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Read your post, and wanted to share a pitfall some have had with getting on antidepressants. Someone I’ve known a very long time (but didn’t realize she had been on them for years until recently) apparently has sustained severe problems or damage, and is having much difficulty trying to get off of them. She is now in a very fragile condition, even though I was told a psychiatrist and a psychologist were involved all along.

In the past several months, I keep seeing and reading about amino acids and the many areas of the body where they are converted and used. Just did a search for a likely good site to offer here as an example of their use as antidepressants. Since amino acids are so very important for so many functions in our body, it may be that our depression might even be caused by an amino acid deficiency OR malabsorption of them. Maybe one of these sites will be helpful:
http://www.ehow.com/way_5612469_amino-acid-therapy-depression-anxiety.html OR
http://www.vaxa.com/aminoacids-essential.cfm OR
http://www.rossbishop.com/Articles/Monthly0304_TreatingDepression.htm

[Krys]

Hi Jeff,
I have never been on anti-depressants and since mold exposure have tried and practiced (at least for a while) every method I found on the internet, then started using herbs, then added supplements, then extensive detox procedures and they all are helping but have not eliminated the problem. Every chronic disease is accompanied by depression. Bartonella is very nasty in this respect and adds much more than depression: anger, “inflammed mind” that reacts totally out of proportion to any unwelcome situation, and often the inner response is there without any outer cause at all. Intense detox is a must, as the neurotoxins will not leave on their own fast enough, and most usually the detoxification pathways are greatly impaired in all chronic patients.
Having said that, I do think that you are the only person that has to decide what to do. If the depression and anxiety is manageable, doing intense detox, adding supplements, enzymes, vitamins, herbs, making sure the sleep is rejuvenating and there is enough of it, may be enough.
But if the problem is intense, using medication, at least for a while, may be the best choice.
Lynnie’s advice to consult your LLMD is right on!!! He/she will know how to help you further even if you start taking anti-depressants and additional support may make huge difference.
I wrote a lengthy reply yesterday with numerous quotations from many LLMDs of how they treat depression and anxiety in their patients. I had no time to finish the post, saved it in the draft folder and I’m sorry: it disappeared overnight. My draft folder got leaky!!!
So just some quotes from “Insights into Lyme Disease Treatment. 13 Lyme-Literate Health Practitioners Share Their Healing Strategies” by Connie Strasheim.
Dr. H.: “Sometimes I find it necessary to prescribe anti-depressants….sometimes people need them, at least for a short while. To help determine the underlying cause of of my patients’ anxiety or depression, I sometimes check their neurotransmitter levels using labs such as NeuroScience or Sanesco, and then recommend amino acids and other supplements to make up for any defficiencies. Just supplementing with magnesium or selenium can often be remarkably helpful, as can detoxifying the body of heavy metals, supporting its nutrition, and getting rid of ammonia and other neurotoxins.”
Dr. B.: “I often recommend neurotransmitter replacement for the treatment of anxiety and depression in those with Lyme, so instead of giving my patients SSRI drugs to increase their serotonin levels, I might give them 5-HTP, or if they have anxiety or agitation, GABA or L-theanine. I may also use homeopathic remedies, Chinese herbs, acupuncture, or Ondamed frequencies to treat these symptoms.”
Dr. M.: “Most people with go through a “depressive phase” during their illness and treatment. this may be due directly to infection(s), or it may be secondary to their illness and due more to circumstances….proper nutrient and perhaps pharmacological intervention can help lessen the effects of depression….I take depression very seriously….I believe that depressive tendencies interfere with the body’s capacity to heal and need to be dealt with throughout treatment if patients are to achieve optimal wellness.”
Dr. C.: “For symptoms of anxiety, I often recommend Amantilla …This is an herbal extract of valerian root that has been imprinted with a variety of energetic frequencies. ….useful for inducing sleep, and at lower doses, is effective for relaxation. I also use other herbal remedies, such as Babuna or kava kava for the treatment of anxiety.
In people with anxiety, the sympathetic nervous system is in overdrive, and when this happens, there is also too much vasoconstriction in the body, which creates oxygen deprivation in the tissues. The body then goes into a state of anaerobic metabolism, lactic acidosis develops, so that the minerals are no longer available to make enzymes work. The result is a metabolic breakdown inside the body.
For the treatment of depression,…the NutraMedix product Avea…,a quantum energetic imprint of turmeric but I have seen it reverse suicidal depression in some, and in just a few hours when it’s taken by mouth on an hourly basis.
Another product…extremely helpful…is EZOV…
…Usually, energetic tests reveal that their main problem is autoimmunity to one of the neurotransmitters that are necessary for normal mood, especially norepinephrine or sertonin, and I can use Laser Energetic Detox to resolve that……….
That said, sometimes patients have severe neurotransmitter defficiencies………
……If the above-mentioned measures aren’t sufficient, then 5mg of Lithium (as the orotate form) three to four times daily, or one tablet of LiZyme-Forte (from Bionics), taken hourly, can sometimes be helpful for rapidly resolving depression.”

Jeff, there are many other methods available, too. There are mudras and also massaging certain acupressure points that help bring about results almost immediately…for a little bit of time. I have no time to search for them and to write them down now.
I only want to add I’m through major dotox now (so neurotoxin level is diminished) and I happen to be doing last few weeks a supplement wash-out. And I feel depressed or maybe I should say: utterly morose. So earlier detox helped, but right now my present depression is obviously related to supps wash-out. Normally, while not on supps wash-out, I take B-12 injections, lithium oratate, magnesium, Siberian Ginseng, which help with managing stress, strengthen the nervous system, protect the brain, have anti-depressant properties. So I have just discovered that my regular supps have a very positive impact on the way I feel!

I hope you find the best solution for you. Warm wishes, Krys

[Fergie]

Thank you all for your thoughtful and heartfelt replies.

I have looked at all the research, my symptoms and discussed with my LLMD. She feels it is time to try an SSRI for the depression. It is really bad – the worse I have had. I have always been on a tonne of supplements – B-12 injectioons, B, C, D, B-6, several detox products, FIR sauna, etc, etc. Nothing has seemed to improved the dark rut I am in currently. Crying non stop, very moody, lots of anxiety, no interest in anything and just feel detached from my world and life. Have been praying to God every night to just take me and not let me wake up in the morning. I have lost probably 12 pounds in the past month. I am fading away to nothing but I am eating like normal…

So I waved the white flag and caved into big pharma. I have had the rx for a couple of weeks. I have stared at it daily afraid to take it. Last night I took a deep breath, exhalled, closed my eyes and swallowed the SSRI. I could not sleep at all last night. Today the depression is worse, I ache all over and just feel like a truck ran me over. I guess I am in for a rough couple of weeks. Everything suggests that it gets worse on them before it gets better. Hell I am used to that being on abx for RA and Lyme for almost 3 years now.

Not sure if I have done the right thing. All I know is that I am at the end of my rope. Have no fight left in me. My last ditch was to go this route. If I continued the path I was on I most likely would not be around much longer. This may not work either but again, I am willing to give it a try. I’d take any pill right now if someone said I was going to feel better.

I love this forum and I come here everyday to read. You are all great and a wealth of knowledge. Thanks for being here.

Jeff

[lynnie_sydney]

Go well Jeff. I hope you wake one day very soon and feel some lightness back in your life. Lynnie

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[hmom]

Jeff,

Please know that you are not alone, many of us have been right where you are, including me…I would be happy to share some thoughts if you would like to PM me – but briefly, have you considered backing off the abx a bit? Sometimes the buildup (especially with Lyme in combination with Bartonella) can cause all of the symptoms you are describing. For the weight/muscle loss, my LLMD recommends protein shakes and glutamine supplements. He also is not averse to antidepressants to give relief during a period of difficulty, as emotional health is so synergistic with physical. From personal experience I agree to stay away from Xanax! I took it (reluctantly) for one week, and it hugely increased the anxiety and depression. Trazadone is one medication he (and others) have recommended for both sleep and anxiety relief.

Please know it can and does get better.

[Krys]

Dear Jeff,
Thank you so much for the update!!! I’ve been thinking of you everyday and today it’s been an all day long affair, on and off.
I hope and pray that the SSRI medication works for you.
But, please, DO use all other methods, too!
Bartonella, as a mixture in co-infections, is VERY nasty. I do have it, though mine is fortunately minor.
You say that you have used “several detox products”. Have you tried Cholestyramine? Many patients of my LLMD take it every day. I cannot. But when I do, usually at least 3-4 days, all the symptoms subside (all symptoms that have at their base the neurotoxins due to the Lyme and molds bugs). Even major symptoms like inflammation of the brain, heart, lungs, pancreas, liver, etc. My neurological, emotional symptoms subside, too. They have all cleared out when I used Chlestyramine for 2 weeks. That is the longest I have used it. Now I use it for 3-4 days. It helps a lot, but not as totally as when it was used for longer time.
DETOX is crucial. All other methods are additional.
I will relate to other methods tomorrow.
Please be aware, the neurotoxins produced by Lyme bugs will not leave your body on their own. They are fat soluble. They are reabsorbed and recirculated. You do have to take a conscious effort to get rid of them. Most usually, the normal detoxification pathways are jeopardized and are not working the way they should. Employing methods that help in clearing out the toxins is a must. If what you have used so far is not enough, DO use additional methods!
Detoxification and diet is not just helpful, it is the very basis! Once you use both, things will improve big time!!!
I’ll keep you in my prayers. Most medication takes time to take effect, I’m sure SSRI, too. May it work for you fast!!!
Warm wishes, Krys

[Maz]

Jeff, I must have missed your earlier post and was so sorry to read this and to hear you’re struggling. I have had similar moments to the ones you’re describing…to go to sleep at night and just wish I’d be “taken.” Probably a good many of us here can relate. Chronic illness has a way of creeping into our heads like this….so just want you to know that you’re not alone.

I’m so glad you’re taking some action and doing what you can to feel better….taking an SSRI is no failure and, if it helps you make it through this period, so you can continue to the fight, then all the better.

I just have one thought that came to mind in addition to all the wonderful, caring insights above….women of a certain age will get their thyroid tested at intervals. Men not so much. Has your doc thought to test you for hyperthyroidism, at all? Some of the symptoms can look like depression (anxiety, weight loss, difficulty sleeping, mood swings, palps, bouts with diarrhea, etc), so just putting that out there and wondering? 😉 The endocrines can be badly affected by Lyme & Co and imbalances can wreak havoc in this regard.

Sending all the very best wishes your way and please come back and let us know how you’re doing once your SSRI kicks in…or just if you want to have a vent.

[Krys]

@Fergie wrote:

I have lost probably 12 pounds in the past month. I am fading away to nothing but I am eating like normal…

… I could not sleep at all last night.

I lost 12 lbs last month, too, but I think it was due to malabsorption and maybe eating less (I normally eat like a horse)…I started using digestive enzymes and Triphala (this is just my personal choice: I have been strongly attracted to this formula). There are days I forget to use them, and still my digestion and absorption have improved like night and day.
And incidentally, the month when I was losing weight was one I did not feel well at all. Constant slight headaches. It occurred to me that of course one feels rotten!!!: while losing big amount of weight, all the toxins that the body stores in the fat are released into the bloodstream!!!
SLEEPING HELP:
APAN VAYU MUDRA from “Mudras. Yoga in your Hands” by Gertrud Hirshi. I use this mudra when I cannot fall asleep. It relaxes the muscles around the heart. This mudra is called a LIfesaver: first aid for heart attacks. One uses it after dialing 911, while waiting for the ambulance to arrive. It can be used for general healing and strengthening of the heart. It is not described as an aid in sleeping, but by relaxing the heart and surrounding muscles, the mind relaxes, too, and I fall asleep within 20 minutes.
“Bend your index finger and let its tip touch the ball of your thumb (meaning the muscle under your thumb that is part of your palm). At the same time, the tips of middle and ring fingers touch the tip of your thumb. Extend your little finger. Do it with each hand.” While trying to fall asleep, in order to keep the little finger straight, I usually press it lightly against the mattress.
SHAKTI MUDRA is the one given to help with falling asleep.
“Place your ring fingers and little fingers together (tips of the fingers, both hands used are touching). The other fingers are loosely bent over your thumbs, which are placed in your palm. Focus on your breathing in the pelvic area, and slow down exhalation somewhat.
Do as needed, or 3 x day for 12 min. The Shakti Mudra intensifies the respiratory impulse in the lower chest area. You can increasingly perceive breathing in the pelvic area. It has a calming effect and will help you fall asleep at night. If it is done too often or held too long it may also lead to lethargy….
I am frequently asked for advice about difficulties in falling asleep. One of the following tips always works:
* Practice this mudra in a slightly different form before trying to sleep. If you sleep on your sides, you can take a corner of the pillow between your hands, place the little fingers and ring fingers together, and let the others lay on or beneath the pillow.
* Bend one hand back and slowly turn it to the left and to the right 6 times; then do the other hand; then one foot, and then the other.
* Moisten the outer and inner sides of your legs with a wet cloth; go to bed without drying them.

Massage to relieve insomnia
http://www.shen-nong.com/eng/treatment/massage_acupressure_techniques_problems_insomnia.html
I have never tried that one. But the point marked as St36 (easier to find when you are sitting on a chair: it is 4 finger width down from the middle of the knee cap; it is slightly to the side of the bone and there’s a slight indentation right there: that’s the St36!!!) is very helpful with depression, relaxing the mind into a nice state.

Hope any of the above helps!

[Author]

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