Home Forums General Discussion Liver issues

This topic contains 16 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Linda L 2 years ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 17 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #455557
    Linda L
    Participant

    Phil has written: Panadol (acetaminophen or paracetamol) is notorious for being hard on the liver

    Can Panadol only elevate liver enzymes? I never had any problems with my liver /even when being on heavy medications/ My last results have been suddenly worse and liver enzymes are too high. I take Mobic and 4 Panadols Osteo daily only. Plus supplements and a lot of iron. I’ve found an article about anemia and it is written that after iron deficiency anemia the second most common is anemia of chronic disease /or anemia of imflammation/ It is written that when you have anemia of chronic disease you iron can be still low but ferritin normal or high /mine is very good/ and that you cannot take iron tablets because it can be harmful or even fatal. I’ve tried to talk to my GP but he doesn’t want to listen.
    It seems that I am a difficult patient. I wonder if Panadol or iron have caused the liver changes.
    Linda L

    RA tried everything: Methotraxate, Arava, Humira. Pneumonia three times. Anemia. Very low iron. Hypothyroidism
    AP from April 2014 till August 2015. No luck.
    Current medications: Oroxine, Mobic, LDN, supplements incl. milk thistle, NAC, vitamins and minerals.
    MTHFR heterozygous

    #455558
    lynnie_sydney
    Moderator

    Hi Linda, Panadol is the brand name in Australia. The medication is paracetamol and there is plenty in the news about it these days. It has been thought (due to marketing) that it’s very benign – but it can cause problems in the liver, especially when people are regularly taking the maximum dose (8 tabs) on a daily basis.

    http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/paracetamol-wont-help-arthritis-shock-study-finds/news-story/247bed6a3eb8b03097f4e2ad7ed6dfcf

    N-AC (n-acetyl cysteine) is a precursor to glutathione and this is used intravenously to treat the liver in cases of paracetamol overdose

    Be well! Lynnie

    Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
    Mino 2003-2007 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate mino/doxy
    abx: MWF a.m. Augmentin Duo (1/2 x 875mg) + 250mg Klacid p.m. Cefaclor (1/4 x 375mg) + 250mg Zithromax. Annual Clindy IV's
    Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
    Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, CoQ10, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, B3 1000mcg, EPO 1000mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil equiv 400mg
    Topical bio-identical estradiol + DHEA caps + Progesterone caps

    #455559
    MLTelfer
    Participant

    We have found liver enzymes to be very volatile – astronomical one test and normal the next. This happened 2 or 3 times. How many tests have been out of range? You may be better on the next test.

    #455561
    Linda L
    Participant

    Lynnie, Telfer, thank you.
    Lynnie, could I overdose Paracetamol after taking four tablets a day? I am heterozygious, so maybe it accumulates. I will try to go down to 2. Might be hard.
    Telfer, It is the first test out of range. Before all liver tests were good. I will have my next test in three months.
    Linda L

    RA tried everything: Methotraxate, Arava, Humira. Pneumonia three times. Anemia. Very low iron. Hypothyroidism
    AP from April 2014 till August 2015. No luck.
    Current medications: Oroxine, Mobic, LDN, supplements incl. milk thistle, NAC, vitamins and minerals.
    MTHFR heterozygous

    #455565
    PhilC
    Participant

    Hi Linda,

    You were taking 50 mg of minocycline for quite some time, but then you stopped. Why did you stop taking it? The reason I am asking is that sometimes people don’t know about other options that are available to them, so if we knew why you stopped taking mino, it might help us to suggest other options for you to consider.

    Phil

    "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
    - Albert Einstein

    #455567
    Linda L
    Participant

    Not exactly. I started with 50mg M/W/F, then 100mg twice a day every day /lasted three weeks and had to change due to mouth ulcers, skin rash, white tongue, pains in stomach/, after that 100mg every day, back to 50mg in SEP 2014, in October back to 100mg M/W/F, back to 50mg in January 2015. In February I started 200mg every day and after two weeks 200mg M/W/F. After that back to 50mg.
    Many, many changes and half of them with a kind help of Dr S.
    It looks that I am very sensitive to ABX. I don’t take any treatment now /Mobic once a day and 4 Panadols Osteo is not a treatment/ I am still considering to give Mino a second chance, but in minimal quantities, maybe like 20M/30W/20F.I don’t know if it’s a good idea. Before that I must fix my liver or whatever it is. There is that funny dry feeling in my mouth like if I have eaten paper all the time. I have tried to drink apple cider vinegar with food but it doesn’t change anything. I am referred to the doctor who is overseas now and I suspect he wants to do gastroscopy and iron transfusion. He is a hematologist.
    Thank you Phil.
    Linda L

    RA tried everything: Methotraxate, Arava, Humira. Pneumonia three times. Anemia. Very low iron. Hypothyroidism
    AP from April 2014 till August 2015. No luck.
    Current medications: Oroxine, Mobic, LDN, supplements incl. milk thistle, NAC, vitamins and minerals.
    MTHFR heterozygous

    #455579
    Linda L
    Participant

    I have received the results of my tests in writing.
    HB 86 Hct 0.29 RBC 3.5 MCV 81 MCH 24 MCHC 202 RDW 18.9 Platelets 592 white cells 8.3
    ESR 102 ALP 378 GST 329 ALT 44 AST 43 Albumin 26 Globulin 56
    Iron 2 Ferritin 122 TRF 2.2 TRF SAT.4
    RF 128 ANA detected ENA negative
    Linda L

    RA tried everything: Methotraxate, Arava, Humira. Pneumonia three times. Anemia. Very low iron. Hypothyroidism
    AP from April 2014 till August 2015. No luck.
    Current medications: Oroxine, Mobic, LDN, supplements incl. milk thistle, NAC, vitamins and minerals.
    MTHFR heterozygous

    #455594
    PhilC
    Participant

    Hi Linda,

    How much Mobic are you taking?

    Phil

    "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
    - Albert Einstein

    #455595
    Linda L
    Participant

    Once in the morning 15mg.
    Thank you.

    RA tried everything: Methotraxate, Arava, Humira. Pneumonia three times. Anemia. Very low iron. Hypothyroidism
    AP from April 2014 till August 2015. No luck.
    Current medications: Oroxine, Mobic, LDN, supplements incl. milk thistle, NAC, vitamins and minerals.
    MTHFR heterozygous

    #455619
    Linda L
    Participant

    I have written to Iron Disorders Institute in America /we don’t have one here/ and this is what they have replied:

    Thank you for reaching out to us. As you know, ACD is directly related to inflammation and the underlying cause has to be addressed before the inflammation is reduced. We encourage eating foods and consuming beverages high in antioxidants. Measuring GGT is one way to see if your antioxidant capabilities are strong. A site that I urge you to visit is: http://www.healtheiron.com to learn more about iron and GGT.

    ACD is anemia of chronic disease. I suspect I have it but my doctors don’t agree. They say I have IDA /iron deficiency anemia/
    Linda L

    RA tried everything: Methotraxate, Arava, Humira. Pneumonia three times. Anemia. Very low iron. Hypothyroidism
    AP from April 2014 till August 2015. No luck.
    Current medications: Oroxine, Mobic, LDN, supplements incl. milk thistle, NAC, vitamins and minerals.
    MTHFR heterozygous

    #455698
    Spiffy
    Participant

    I would so encourage you to study milk thistle. After being in a drug trial for pulmonary hypertension my dad’s liver enzymes were in the 900’s. He began milk thistle daily and graphed his results. Phenomenal results. For him, milk thistle was great for his liver. I am now on it for preventative maintenance with good results. I realize our bodies are all different. What works for one, may not work for another. I am heterozygous as well. I do think things build up in our systems more easily than others and the liver is stuck saying, “Why me?” When will you retest?

    DR4/DQ8 HLA, bio toxin illness
    Flare fall of 2014...muscle aches, joint pains, fatigue, hair loss, rashes
    Positive RA factor was 71 in January 2015 down to 28 as of September 2016
    IGG food allergies wheat, egg, dairy
    supplements: C and D, probiotics, milk thistle, Turmeric, cod liver oil, methyl b 12 & folate, digestive enzymes, Moducare, chlorella, berberine, LDN, monolaurin, Triphala, Patriot Greens
    MTHFR compound heterozygous
    Igenex IGM Lyme positive
    Minocycline 100 BID MWF

    #455709
    Linda L
    Participant

    Thank you Spiffy. My next test is in about a mmonth.
    Linda L

    RA tried everything: Methotraxate, Arava, Humira. Pneumonia three times. Anemia. Very low iron. Hypothyroidism
    AP from April 2014 till August 2015. No luck.
    Current medications: Oroxine, Mobic, LDN, supplements incl. milk thistle, NAC, vitamins and minerals.
    MTHFR heterozygous

    #455715
    PhilC
    Participant

    Hi Linda,

    Besides helping your liver, there is another reason to take N-acetyl cysteine (NAC) — it kills one of the forms of Cpn.

    Phil

    "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
    - Albert Einstein

    #455718
    Maz
    Keymaster

    Hi Linda,

    I started with 50mg M/W/F, then 100mg twice a day every day /lasted three weeks and had to change due to mouth ulcers, skin rash, white tongue, pains in stomach/

    After reading your symptoms above, I began to wonder if you have been fighting candida. Have any of your doctors tested you for this? I am wondering, because you are also hypothyroid. Being hypothyroid will predispose folks to infections, because everything in the body slows down, including immune function. Not only this, you mentioned that you’d been on numerous DMARDs and biologics, which can also predispose a person to gut imbalances. What type of probiotics do you use? Are you taking enough daily?

    Hypothyroidism can also create low stomach acid, which means a person has slowed digestion and depressed absorption of nutrients. Iron deficiency anemia is pretty common with hypothyroidism as a result. What type of treatment are you having for your thyroid? With such a lot of inflammation has any doctor offered you T3 medication? Have you had recent thyroid labs? If so, can you share them here? Very important for folks with chronic illness and inflammation to ensure they are converting T4 to T3, so this means that in addition to getting TSH tested, it’s very informative to also get the Frees tested (FT4 and FT3), as well as Reverse T3.

    These may not be your issues, but just came to mind when reading your posts.

    Also agree with Phil…NAC is a wonderful supplement, a precursor to glutathione and very detoxifying for the liver and protective for other organs, like lungs and skin. They actually administer it via IV to folks in the ER who have taken an aspirin overdose, as well as to children with cystic fibrosis because it is a mucolytic. It’s very beneficial for a number of reasons for folks with rheumatic diseases.

    Severe, swift onset RA as a result of Lyme disease
    Current Meds: Biaxin (500mg BID), Tetracycline (500mg BID), Tirosint (88mcg), Liothyronine (10 mcg), Compounded Liposomal Artemisinin, LDN (3mg), Topical Progesterone,
    Current Supps: Curcumin, Bovine Colostrum, ALA. NAC, Milk Thistle, Super Liquid Folate/B12/B-Complex, Probiotics, Vit D3
    Supportive Measures: IV Myer's Cocktails, IV Glutathione, FIR Sauna, Gluten-free diet, Gym.

    #455769
    Linda L
    Participant

    Maz, Phil,
    Thank you for your messages. Sorry I am replying only today, but after I had iron infusion a week ago I felt a little bit dizzy and strange.
    Now answering your questions. I have never been tested for candida. Is it a blood test? I take good probiotics – Lactobac and Bacillus Coagulans by Thorne. PH paper shows acidity of my saliva in the morning. Can I still have low stomach acid?
    Arthritis, hypothyroidism and asthma were diagnosed years ago and all together /same month/ That time Oroxine I started to take Oroxine. I didn’t know much about Thyroid till August 2015. That time I was taking 125 mg. Then for a long time my results were:
    TSH 0.15,0.37,0.05,0.43, 0.08.
    T-4 21.9, 22.3, 22., 21.7
    T-3 3.8, 3.7, 3.2, 2.7, 3.4
    Three doctors saw it and said “Hmm, OK”. Then I started to read about it and reduced my dose to 100mg without telling them. The results after 5 months were:
    TSH 0.65 and T-4 19.9
    So I reduced it again and after taking 75mg for three months the results were:
    TSH 4.64 and T-4 15.9
    So I am taking 100/75mg now /100mg one day and 75mg a day after/
    It looks that all of you recommend NAC. Can I take it as tablets not via IV? Can anyone of you suggest a brand and a dose please?
    I am thinking to start ABX again. I have spoken to one doctor but he said that until my blood is improved he won’t give me antibiotics.
    My next test is due around 22nd June.
    Thank you to all of you. I really appreciate that you have looked into my “case”.
    Linda L

    RA tried everything: Methotraxate, Arava, Humira. Pneumonia three times. Anemia. Very low iron. Hypothyroidism
    AP from April 2014 till August 2015. No luck.
    Current medications: Oroxine, Mobic, LDN, supplements incl. milk thistle, NAC, vitamins and minerals.
    MTHFR heterozygous

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 17 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.