Home Forums General Discussion High fat diet

This topic contains 18 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Linda L 3 years ago.

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  • #308718
    Linda L
    Participant

    I haven
    t found much about Atkins’ and other high fat diets on our forum. In 2012 Katherine Poehlmann wrote that she and her husband followed Atkins’ diet. When I was buying something in a health food shop last week I was given some printed pages with an article about high fate diets.They mention here a highly respected Dr Weston Price who documented that people who enjoy the abundant health consume a diet which consisted of 50%-65% fat.He has written a book “Nutrition and Physical Degeneration”. Another advocate for a high fat diet is the renowned Dr Jan Kwasniewski of Poland who is the author of six books and nominee of the Nobel Prize in Medicine in 1999.Dr Kwasniewski recommends three basic guidelines:
    1. Eat 1g of protein for every kilogram of your ideal body weight /eg. lean meat/
    2. Eat 2.5-3.5g of fat for every gram of protein /a lot of fat/
    3. Eat 0.8g of carbohydrate for every gram of protein.
    It is crucial to avoid the bad fats like trans fats, margarine, refined or heat pressed oils and polyunsaturated fats.
    They claim that it is a highly anti-inflammatory diet and is consistent with a traditional diet of French who boast the lowest heart disease and stroke rates in the world and consume more fat per capita /also butter/ than any other nation.
    Old cook books /I have one issued in 1914/ also have all recipes with hips of eggs eg. 20 eggs for 1 kg of cheese to make a cheese cake.
    I have avoided fat all my life /even butter/ . I have tried many thing for my RA. So I am going to introduce more fat into my diet and see what happens.
    I wonder if anyone of you has tried this diet.
    Linda L.

    RA tried everything: Methotraxate, Arava, Humira. Pneumonia three times. Anemia. Very low iron. Hypothyroidism
    AP from April 2014 till August 2015. No luck.
    Current medications: Oroxine, Mobic, LDN, supplements incl. milk thistle, NAC, vitamins and minerals.
    MTHFR heterozygous

    #374958
    Linda L
    Participant

    The French also boast the lowest obesity rates worldwide.

    RA tried everything: Methotraxate, Arava, Humira. Pneumonia three times. Anemia. Very low iron. Hypothyroidism
    AP from April 2014 till August 2015. No luck.
    Current medications: Oroxine, Mobic, LDN, supplements incl. milk thistle, NAC, vitamins and minerals.
    MTHFR heterozygous

    #374959
    enzed
    Participant

    @linda L wrote:

    The French also boast the lowest obesity rates worldwide.

    The high fat, low carb diet was first developed by Dr Bernstein many years ago for the safe diet control of diabetic blood sugar. The Dr Bernstein Diabetic Forum is under maintenance right now but will be up again soon. It contains more than you would ever need to know about the value of high fat diets, particularly in relation to diabetes.

    Dr Bernstein is a Chicago doctor who has had diabetes since childhood. He developed this diet and has published many books about it. Below is a link to one of them. You can read a lot of his writings for free on the forum though – no need to buy the books. The forum also contains hundreds of free recipes developed by his followers over years. So no need to buy a recipe book either!

    The Bernstein diet contains full fat dairy so will not suit those with dairy allergy. Dairy food loves me and I love dairy food so the diet (way of eating) suits me well. It’s very satisfying, never any hunger with it and its great for weight loss.

    I found the Bernstein forum 11 years ago when I was first diagnosed with diabetes. By following the Bernstein diet formula fairly closely I have managed blood sugar within safe limits ever since without needing to take any diabetic drugs. In fact, even though I remain diabetic it is such a non issue for me, I do not even include it in my ‘signature’ on this forum.

    There is extensive science behind the high fat / low carb way of eating, most of which is published on the Bernstein forum for those who are interested to find out more.

    Dr. Bernstein’s Diabetes Solution, low…
    http://www.diabetes-book.com/Cached
    Achieving normal blood sugars for diabetics with the aid of a low carbohydrate diet and exercise is the focus of Dr. Bernstein’s Diabetes Solution, and The …

    #374960
    PhilC
    Participant

    Here’s an interesting article I recently stumbled upon:
    Dutch Get it Right and Recognize Saturated Fat is Not a Problem

    Phil

    "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
    - Albert Einstein

    #374961
    enzed
    Participant

    @philc wrote:

    Here’s an interesting article I recently stumbled upon:
    Dutch Get it Right and Recognize Saturated Fat is Not a Problem

    Phil

    The health value of high fat / low carb eating has actually been known and published for many years. This same information was published on the Bernstein forum (and others) at least 10 years ago which is when I first came across it. At around that same time the first articles were being published regarding the ‘myth’ of cholesterol.

    The refusal of most of the medical profession to acknowledge the compelling fat / carb research can be equated with the resistance of rheumatologists when presented with evidence of successful antibiotic treatment for our autoimmune diseases. They are just not prepared to admit they have been wrong or that they have not kept up with the research. Fortunately for us, not all doctors allow their egos to overcome their scientific curiosity and honesty.

    #374957
    richie
    Participant

    In my opinion whoever goes on a high fat diet is suicidal !!!!!! The biggest fraud was Dr Atkins –I wonder how many people killed themselves following his diet —Dr Atkins died at the age of 73 –He had hypertension –congestive heart failure -history of heart attack and weighed 258 lbs at his death which supposedly was the result of a fall —I am not an anti fat fanatic but I attempt to eat using common sense and not go out of my way to consume fat !!!! Mayor Bloomberg released this info after careful attempts by the Atkins organization to suppress this info !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The French have excellent longevity due to a few factors –DRinking wine is supposed to be beneficial and they eat for quality not quantity like in the US –thats the big reason –I still think keep the fats to a minimum !!!!!!!!!!!!!!We get enough by accident !!
    richie

    #374962
    PhilC
    Participant

    @enzed wrote:

    The health value of high fat / low carb eating has actually been known and published for many years. This same information was published on the Bernstein forum (and others) at least 10 years ago which is when I first came across it. At around that same time the first articles were being published regarding the ‘myth’ of cholesterol.

    I first learned that saturated fat is not bad, as is commonly claimed, about 30 years ago when I read the book Supernutrition, by Dr. Richard Passwater. That book was published in 1975.

    I only remember a few things from that book, all of them about fat. That book is where I learned that coconut oil is a healthy fat. He also wrote about a study that was done on pigs. They fed groups of pigs different foods and then later looked at their arteries. They fed the pigs butter, eggs, margarine, and sugar. When they slaughtered the pigs and looked at their arteries, the groups with the worst looking arteries were the pigs that were fed margarine and the ones fed sugar.

    Dr. Passwater also wrote that polyunsaturated fat is not the “good fat” that it has been made out to be. The problem is that polyunsaturated fats are unstable and easily attacked by oxygen (they turn rancid). According to that book, a diet high in polyunsaturated fat is associated with premature aging of the skin.

    Phil

    "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
    - Albert Einstein

    #374963
    enzed
    Participant

    The Dr Bernstein way-of-eating (it’s not a ‘diet’ as such) does not resemble the Aitkens diet.

    It was formulated specifically for diabetic blood sugar control (not weight loss) and includes healthy fats including avocado. It includes many low carb, nutrient rich foods such as flax seed. Baking ingredients for bread and cakes include almond flower, eggs, coconut cream, coconut oil, olive oil, and dairy cream, all safe for blood sugar control. Some cheeses and meats are included.

    Low fat foods are excluded because they contain hidden sugars. Most grains are excluded because they contain too much carbohydrate for successful blood sugar control. Some potatoes are included if they are small and ‘new’ i.e. when they are low GI.

    Low GI vegetables and fruit are included but high GI vegetables and fruit are excluded. For instance, oranges obtain far too much sugar for diabetics.

    Red wine – an interesting experiment amongst our diabetic forum members a few years ago showed that one glass of red wine after food put blood sugar down, whereas three glasses of red wine put blood sugar up. Forum members also experimented with recipes to create interesting meals within the balanced range to maintain blood sugar control. The proof was in the testing.

    Many diabetics are underweight, while others are overweight. Interestingly, the Bernstein way of eating helped many underweights put on some weight, while overweights often lost weight so it was more about ‘normalising’ body metabolism through improved blood sugar control.

    I was fascinated to discover that dairy cream is no carb while dairy milk is extremely high carb – so milk is excluded but cream is included.

    During the years when I was active on the Bernstein forum many of our members not only reversed negative health effects from diabetes but prevented many serious complications from developing.

    The forum sometimes received verbal attack emails from people on other diabetic forums who seemed to be in competition with each other to have the worst diabetes, the nastiest complications – very much into playing the victim role. They ate the prescribed diabetic diets as pushed by dieticians and got progressively worse but couldn’t seem to make the connection. It reminds me of the hostility some of us here have received from rheumatologists when they discover we have chosen AP as our preferred treatment over what they can offer. It’s a threatened reaction.

    #374964
    jasregadoo
    Moderator

    My opinion is that it is best to eat whole, natural foods, in moderation.

    So better to eat butter than margerine, better to eat eggs than just egg whites, better to eat real food than manufactured food.

    High fat doesn’t seem great, though avocadoes, almonds, olive oil are all good.

    All in moderation, nothing in excess. That’s my motto. None of this speaks to our specific conditions. Just real life.

    #374965
    enzed
    Participant

    @jasregadoo wrote:

    My opinion is that it is best to eat whole, natural foods, in moderation.

    So better to eat butter than margerine, better to eat eggs than just egg whites, better to eat real food than manufactured food.

    High fat doesn’t seem great, though avocadoes, almonds, olive oil are all good.

    All in moderation, nothing in excess. That’s my motto. None of this speaks to our specific conditions. Just real life.

    Salmon and other fish provide good fat, can reduce inflammation and are considered ‘heart healthy’. They are a valuable part of diabetic control. Some people take omega 3 supplements – I eat fish, including salmon and sardines instead of taking supplements. I also eat seaweed which is also claimed to reduce inflammation. As a diabetic who also has scleroderma food really does speak to my conditions. Bacon and egg is also considered a healthy diabetic breakfast for people following the Bernstein formula – pork fat contains nutrients but the high fat description relates to a wide range of foods.

    Here are a couple of links to fatty fish info.

    Fatty Fish & Your Cholesterol – WebMD
    http://www.webmd.com/cholesterol-management/features/low-cholesterol-diet-fatty-fishCached
    The term “fatty fish” may sound unappealing, but actually these are the tastiest and healthiest foods from the sea. Oily fish such as salmon, tuna, sardines, …
    Salmon – Seafood Health Facts: Making Smart…
    http://seafoodhealthfacts.org/seafood_choices/salmon.phpCached
    The term

    #374966
    lynnie_sydney
    Moderator

    Here’s an article from February this year in ScienceDaily regarding the dietary fat recommendations

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150210050947.htm

    2 key points:

    “It seems incomprehensible that dietary advice was introduced for 220 million Americans and 56 million UK citizens, given the contrary results from a small number of unhealthy men,” write the researchers. “The results of the present meta-analysis support the hypothesis that the available [randomised controlled trials] did not support the introduction of dietary fat recommendations in order to reduce [coronary heart disease] risk or related mortality.” And they conclude: “Dietary advice not merely needs review; it should not have been introduced.”

    But in a linked editorial, Rahul Bahl, of the Royal Berkshire NHS Foundation Trust, sounds a note of caution.

    The most up to date review of the evidence also concluded that the evidence on which current dietary guidance is based was “very limited,” but this doesn’t mean that the risk factor identified is not a true risk factor, he says.”There is certainly a strong argument that an overreliance in public health on saturated fat as the main dietary villain for cardiovascular disease has distracted from the risks posed by other nutrients, such as carbohydrates,” he writes. “Yet replacing one caricature with another does not feel like a solution,” he insists.

    Be well! Lynnie

    Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
    Mino 2003-2007 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate mino/doxy
    abx: MWF a.m. Augmentin Duo (1/2 x 875mg) + 250mg Klacid p.m. Cefaclor (1/4 x 375mg) + 250mg Zithromax. Annual Clindy IV's
    Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
    Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, CoQ10, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, B3 1000mcg, EPO 1000mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil equiv 400mg
    Topical bio-identical estradiol + DHEA caps + Progesterone caps

    #374967
    enzed
    Participant

    The debate heats up

    #374968
    Linda L
    Participant

    Since my message here I have eaten at least two yolks a day and sometimes more. Dr Kwasniewski recommends to eat at least 4 yolks a day /even 8 is OK/ I eat butter and cook spare ribs twice a week. I can say that I have much more energy and that acidic reflux between meals has disappeared. I would think opposite. I baked a cheese cake according to his recipe. It is very rich in eggs 20 for 1kg of cheese and 500 g of butter. Please note that You eat only a small piece and it can replace breakfast or dinner. The author has written that every war takes the population back in evolution due to the poorer diet and it causes all major diseases. Before the world war II the people were eating fat meals packed with eggs.
    Linda L.

    RA tried everything: Methotraxate, Arava, Humira. Pneumonia three times. Anemia. Very low iron. Hypothyroidism
    AP from April 2014 till August 2015. No luck.
    Current medications: Oroxine, Mobic, LDN, supplements incl. milk thistle, NAC, vitamins and minerals.
    MTHFR heterozygous

    #374969
    enzed
    Participant

    @linda L wrote:

    Since my message here I have eaten at least two yolks a day and sometimes more. Dr Kwasniewski recommends to eat at least 4 yolks a day /even 8 is OK/ I eat butter and cook spare ribs twice a week. I can say that I have much more energy and that acidic reflux between meals has disappeared. I would think opposite. I baked a cheese cake according to his recipe. It is very rich in eggs 20 for 1kg of cheese and 500 g of butter. Please note that You eat only a small piece and it can replace breakfast or dinner. The author has written that every war takes the population back in evolution due to the poorer diet and it causes all major diseases. Before the world war II the people were eating fat meals packed with eggs.
    Linda L.

    The Bernstein diet for diabetics also has no limit on the number of eggs at a meal although the advice there is to eat the whole egg, not just the yolks. Butter or olive oil are used for cooking and a lot of cheese is consumed. The Bernstein dietary advice sounds very similar to Dr Kwasniewski’s advice and for the same reasons.

    I’m not trying to influence anyone else to eat high fat food just because I do. People are very different and of course many have a sensitivity or an allergy to dairy foods or eggs, nuts or something else. But it’s good to know our choices are based on sound information that suits our particular health needs.

    #374970
    domgro
    Participant

    I have tried all kinds of diets including a high fat diet.
    for me it was one of the worst diets I have tried.
    in the beginning I felt already bad but after few months I felt even worse and it certainly did some additional damage to my joints.
    I can only speak for myself,but I think most people would react in a similar way to a high fat atkins type diet.
    before anybody tries a high fat diet I would recommend to try first a mcdougall type diet,based on starches,fruits and vegetables.
    it was the only diet for me that has worked noticably.
    although it didnt help me to relief my symptoms completely,it helped my to bring down inflammation and morning stiffness.
    I have a rather severe case of arthritis ,so for many people a change to a mcdougall type diet would be even more beneficial and might even completely reflief symptoms for some people.

    regarding diabetes,a ted talk by neal barnard

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