yeast problem with protocol a Question :)

[susanmary]

Hi everyone

I have never posted before but read all your info and have read “Road Back’ four times now. I am in Sydney Australia.

My GP who has walked this long path of pain with me was willing to give me the antibiotics (Minomycin – Aspen brand think Australian) if I supplied her heaps of research material which I did 😆 . Anyway I am doing 50mg twice a day M,W,F I am on day 21 as in I have taken 42 tablets. Seven days ago I began to get the tell tale signs of yeast in the nether regions – POO!

I did do sixteen days of Diflucan before starting protocol as my blood tests came back as borderline possibility previous candida – we were trying to play extra safe! I emailed my doctor and she said go back on Diflucan for seven days but keep taking minomycin. I do NO WHEAT , sugar, etc etc etc I take all the “goodies” pro-biotics, anti yeats tablets, GALLONS of bolied water( I can let you know where every public toilet is in the City 🙄 . MY Diet is VERY VERY clean – and has been for a long time.

Sorry burbling – MY QUESTION IS as it is not suppose to be great to take Diflucan all the time – does anyone take it say three times a week on the days of not taking antibiotics ??? Any problems ???

I am not due to see my doctor till mid May (hard to get in) and they are already going outside their normal area giving me the script because a;) they are very kind and B;) they have seen how much I have done to get out of pain over the last ten years. i don’t want to keep bothering them by mail as I don’t want to scare them away from Antibiotic therapy. I have had no stomach problems with the Minomycin – I am very very small build. HELP very very appreciated

I do hope I have done this post correctly i have never posted on a Forum before .

Many Thanks
Susan

[lynnie_sydney]

Hi Susan
I am a fellow Sydney-sider, nice to see you here, this is a good place for support and wisdom!
Diflucan can be very hard on the liver and IMO it’s probably not a great idea to take this ongoing on 4 days a week. You may be better off taking a short course now along with a non-systemic washout such as Nystatin (I think Mycostatin here) which the liver doesn’t have to break down and then using the washout version ongoing if you need it.

You also should absolutely get yourself onto a very good probiotic – everyone needs to as a precaution when taking antibiotics long-term, which would seem to be more essential for you if you have a tendency to suffer from candida. Candida can also produce rheumatic symptoms also, so really worth trying to clear this if you can and work to prevent it coming back.

If you would like to consult an AP Doctor (even if just as an adjunct to your own supportive GP) there is a good one in inner Sydney who would most likely work with your own doc. You can email me at lyn@roadback.org and I will send you her name and some others for your consideration.

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[SS]

Hi Susan:

I had a cold and after taking my doctor prescription antibiotics I got yeast infection.
The nurse practitioner gave me one diflucan and still I had vaginal itching and so went to my gynecologist
He found out it was yeast and did a culture he said that diflucan will not cure yeast infection and prescribed vaginal cream which cleared the infection at once.
This is my experience so consult your doc.
thanks
Regards
SS

[Anonymous]

Hi Susan,
Lynnie is right. First check your probiotic. It must be very good. I take /I am in Melbourne/ Lactobac capsules. One capsule with a glass of water half an hour before breakfast.
Please let me know how Minocine is working for you. I know it is very early.
All the best.
Linda L.

[A Friend]

@susanmary wrote:

Hi everyone

I have never posted before but read all your info and have read “Road Back’ four times now. I am in Sydney Australia.

My GP who has walked this long path of pain with me was willing to give me the antibiotics (Minomycin – Aspen brand think Australian) if I supplied her heaps of research material which I did 😆 . Anyway I am doing 50mg twice a day M,W,F I am on day 21 as in I have taken 42 tablets. Seven days ago I began to get the tell tale signs of yeast in the nether regions – POO!

I did do sixteen days of Diflucan before starting protocol as my blood tests came back as borderline possibility previous candida – we were trying to play extra safe! I emailed my doctor and she said go back on Diflucan for seven days but keep taking minomycin. I do NO WHEAT , sugar, etc etc etc I take all the “goodies” pro-biotics, anti yeats tablets, GALLONS of bolied water( I can let you know where every public toilet is in the City 🙄 . MY Diet is VERY VERY clean – and has been for a long time.

Sorry burbling – MY QUESTION IS as it is not suppose to be great to take Diflucan all the time – does anyone take it say three times a week on the days of not taking antibiotics ??? Any problems ???

I am not due to see my doctor till mid May (hard to get in) and they are already going outside their normal area giving me the script because a;) they are very kind and B;) they have seen how much I have done to get out of pain over the last ten years. i don’t want to keep bothering them by mail as I don’t want to scare them away from Antibiotic therapy. I have had no stomach problems with the Minomycin – I am very very small build. HELP very very appreciated

I do hope I have done this post correctly i have never posted on a Forum before .

Many Thanks
Susan

Hello Susan,

Sounds like you have made a real commitment to get well. I have walked a similar path, and can identify with much of what you have written. Ironically, I just came to the board to share a link I just found, and to share a fairly lengthy extract from it.

But first I want to say that my own chronic illness began with taking abx for an illness that I waked up with one morning. The 10 days of abx made me feel much better, but four months later, the illness returned. This kept regularly repeating itself for two years, at which time I’d become what I term a “lifeless vegetable.” Though I never saw evidence of a typical yeast infection, I indeed would later know I had developed a systemic yeast/fungal overgrowth.

I encourage you to get a copy of Dr. Wm Crook’s book, “Chronic Fatigue & the Yeast Connection.” He was a pediatric allergist, and primarily for a number of years treated children. Later, he began heavily researching yeast/fungal overgrowth, and his 12 books were written on the subject for both children and adults. He established the International Health Foundation. He died a few years ago, and I owe him much. When I first read his book above, and read about the Foundation, I made a small contribution to it; not long afterward, I received a letter from him, thanking me and saying he invited those needing a bit of extra help to call him on a certain day of the week, and he would spend about five minutes giving them a bit of direction. I called him, because I had an important question about night sweats from the yeast supplements, and I was beginning to have muscle spasms. This was happening when I was sweating so many of my body’s nutrients during the night. I would wake with chills and fever, take an ibuprofen, then begin sweating, go back to sleep. When I would awaken the next morning, I had begun feeling really well — I’m sure it was because my body was sweating out a lot of toxins.

When I called Dr. Crook that day, I told him about the above. He had such a kind, gentle voice, and he said, “My dear, I believe you are making a lot of progress, but I think you need a boost to help with the detoxing you are doing, even though if you keep on the program you’re doing from the book, you will eventually get well.” But, he felt I needed the help of the Diflucan, and suggested I find a physician who would help me with this. Dr. Crook told me that I was the one who would know when I no longer needed to take the Diflucan. He suggested that I find a “kindly physician” to help me with this. I had already previously been referred to an ENT Physician that I had excellent rapport with, and I felt he was the one I should ask about this. He was glad to do it, and wrote me a number of Rx’es, and I could have them filled as needed. And could stop when I felt they had done their job. The ENT also told me that I was the one who would know when to stop the Diflucan. I began feeling better after being on the Diflucan for a while, but it was between three and four months that I took it. After that, my improvement was rapid, and I began getting my life and energy back. (But, little did I know how pervasive yeast/fungal overgrowth was. I had never had a typical woman’s yeast/fungal overgrowth that we hear about, so had it not been for Dr. Crook’s book, I would not have learned what I needed to know.

Below I am pasting a link and an excerpt that I found and read tonight, and came here to find a place to put it, so it might help those who need to know more about this problem. So many people think of yeast overgrowth as something like a bad cold, and of short duration. Minimizing this problem has probably been added to because of the adds for women to take a little pill that makes everything go away. Yeast/fungal overgrowth is a lot more serious than the kind of signal the woman’s yeast infection gives us.

http://www.candida-yeast-infection-relief.com/sinusskin.shtml
Severe Candida Overgrowth:
Disrupts Cellular Detox Pathways,
Reduces Cellular Energy Production
& May Lead To Cancer and Osteoporosis

Excerpt below is from above site: ________________________________________
Toxin exposure from long term, chronic candida yeast infections causes cell damage at a deep level. If you are in very poor shape, if you can’t handle die-off or detoxification, you may need to deal with these issues.

Disruption of Body Wide and Cellular Detoxification — and Cellular Energy Production
At a basic level, candida produces so many toxins that your liver gets worn out, overworked, and is not able to eliminate all those toxins. They get shunted to cells, to be gotten out of the way. Which doesn’t help out the cells any, to say the least.
Toxins cause the most problems when they are floating around in the bloodstream or other areas of your body, before they are shunted into cells. Candida toxins can cause you to feel like your drunk, make you feel extreme fatigue, make you feel like you are sick.

When you kill candida, the toxins in it get released. Kill a bunch of candida, a whole lot of toxins are released. If, as is the usual case, the liver is not able to handle this load of toxins, they end up making you feel lousy. It’s called candida die off symptoms. And is the reason why we say start slowly by using a very low dose of whatever you are taking that may kill candida.

There are people who experience such a high degree of sickness, they literally cannot take anything to kill candida. Any amount of extra toxin release is too much. They are basically already way to sick to start with to be able to handle any more. It’s no fun.

What’s going on with them, at least partly, and what goes on to some degree with everyone who has had chronic candida yeast overgrowth is the following.
Candida toxins eventually disrupt the ability of the pancreas to make a number of the metabolic enzymes needed for cellular detoxification and for energy production in the cells. (They may disrupt many others too, but these are the ones I know of.
Metabolic enzymes are required for anything and everything to happen in the body. They are the catalyst needed to make something happen. When the metabolic enzymes cells use to get rid of toxins are not available, the cells cannot get rid of the toxins. They sit in the cell disrupting its functioning.

When someone has reached the point where they can’t take anything that detoxifies, or that kills candida, its because both their cellular detoxification pathways are not functioning, and their liver is not able to detoxify effectively either.
Candida toxins also disrupt production of the pancreatic enzymes that are needed to produce energy aerobically and anaerobically too. Cells can still produce a little energy, using the anaerobic sugar fermentation process. But not a lot. This process produces lactic acid as a byproduct of sugar fermentation. The cell can’t detoxify the lactic acid because its detoxification pathways are also not working. So lactic acid builds up in the cells, they become inflamed. They hurt.
The worse someone is, the more this process is happening. Something else is involved with this too.
Candida Produced Tartaric Acid Stops
Malic Acid Induced Cellular Energy Production
[More…. go to above link to continue]

Hope this information is helpful to you, Susan, and to all of you who need this information!

AF

[susanmary]

Hi All

Just popping back to say thankyou for the replies.

Susan

[vinny]

I’ve been on some level of Minocycline since June of 2008 and have not had to treat a yeast overgrowth until this week. I am headed to see the doctor tomorrow for an obvious oral thrush outbreak. I have always used at least two probiotic suppliers. But I think I had a yeast growth perfect storm.
1. using 100mg of very effective Ranbaxy Minocycline daily
2 using Tagamet for treating a cold sore
3. using a Prednisone dose pack to treat an outbreak of Psoriatic arthritis in my TM joint.
There is some good advice in this thread that I will be studying.

Psoriatic Arthritis: 100mg Minoz Minocycline TABLET daily; twice daily 400mg Pentoxifylline;125mcg Levotyroxine: Have been using some level of Minocycline since 2008

[Maz]

@vinny wrote:

I’ve been on some level of Minocycline since June of 2008 and have not had to treat a yeast overgrowth until this week. I am headed to see the doctor tomorrow for an obvious oral thrush outbreak. I have always used at least two probiotic suppliers. But I think I had a yeast growth perfect storm.
1. using 100mg of very effective Ranbaxy Minocycline daily
2 using Tagamet for treating a cold sore
3. using a Prednisone dose pack to treat an outbreak of Psoriatic arthritis in my TM joint.
There is some good advice in this thread that I will be studying.

Hi Vinny,

I think Methotrexate can also promote the overgrowth of candida in the gut. My MIL has PsA and AS and has been on mtx for about 20 years now. She is constantly battling fungal infections in her toes/nails and has had bouts with oral thrush, too. Very sore and unpleasant. 🙁 So, you’re probably right on about the “perfect storm” in combination…cortisone is notorious for affecting cortisol/sugar levels and creating yeast overgrowth. Rheumatic-diabetics can have a really rough time with it and find that when the yeast is treated, their sugar levels also come down, so need to be careful about candida med dosing and sugar level monitoring during treatment.

Minocycline actually has some anti-fungal props and has been studied alongside diflucan for their synergistic effects, so this is a plus….though you may need to be careful as all three – mtx, some systemic antifungals, like diflucan, and mino may in combo be tough on liver.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20707818

Your doc will help with some prescription for the acute infection (possible herx with this), but just wondering what you might be doing in the way of probiotics? Have you looked into ones like Theralac and/or VSL#3? Now that candida has become overt, it might be a good idea to get onto a really aggressive anti-candida diet, probiotics, cleanses and also to look into herbals, such as curcumin (lots of research on benefits of curcumin for candida), which greatly help to limit candida overgrowth.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19470507

Oil pulling with extra virgin coconut oil can be great for daily oral health, in general, and some people also use mouth washes with a few drops of grapefruit seed extract in some warm water. If one has any dental plates, then keeping these well-maintained is important, too, as candida can proliferate under these.

Just a few ideas to research and consider. Hope you feel better soon…that’s rotten to have oral thrush. I recall back in the “old days” in England that folks used to use “gentian violet” to paint on the tongue when afflicted with oral thrush. It’s not used anymore, but it was a topical anti-fungal/anti-bacterial purple-dyed color and it also painted the tongue purple! Better stuff used today.

[vinny]

Thanks for reply Maz. I now you have a lot of experience in that area. The doctor is starting with a conservative approach with a prescription for Nystatin and the probiotic Florastor. My liver function is still very good, but like you say, long term use of MTX is taxing enough on the liver. I have used Life Extension Curcumen in the past and will put that back in. I also have some high quality coconut oil and will start back on it. Hopefully the scripts will knock it down and than have a program that keeps it at bay.
vinny

Psoriatic Arthritis: 100mg Minoz Minocycline TABLET daily; twice daily 400mg Pentoxifylline;125mcg Levotyroxine: Have been using some level of Minocycline since 2008

[Maz]

@vinny wrote:

The doctor is starting with a conservative approach with a prescription for Nystatin and the probiotic Florastor. My liver function is still very good, but like you say, long term use of MTX is taxing enough on the liver. I have used Life Extension Curcumen in the past and will put that back in. I also have some high quality coconut oil and will start back on it. Hopefully the scripts will knock it down and than have a program that keeps it at bay.

Vinny, all the best with your anti-yeast regimen and hope your mouth heals up soon. I took Nystatin, a wash-thru that just passes thru the gut, a year ago and it sure kicked my toosh. I was flat out for a day or so with herxing, so clearly had some gut involvement with candida, though no overt infections. If you’re happy with your Life Extension curcumin, you might not be interested, but if your doc is open to rxing you Enhansa, apparently 90% of insurances are covering it. I only pay a $10 co-pay for a month’s supply (90 x 600mg caps -supposed to work up to 3 caps a day, but 1 cap a day is pretty strong for me) of this specially-compounded curcumin and it’s mailed directly to my door from the Lee Silsby Pharmacy after doc calls it in (not promoting a brand, just an idea to save a buck). If not covered, might be a moot point, though. 😉

Feel better soon!

[Author]

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