Systemic vasculitis

[Krys]

@laurawm wrote:

I think the difficulty is the unfamiliarity with so many herbs and not knowing what will work best it becomes daunting to begin trying so many new supplements – but I have found things that I know are helping me, so the more I can learn and read the more equipped I am to handle the ups and downs of all of this.

Laura, I think that if you want to introduce any of Buhner’s herbs, it would really be best if you borrowed the book from the library or bought it on Amazon. Once you read all the actions of each herb, it will be easier for you to decide if you want to introduce it.

Is Scutellaria baicalensis root the same as baicalin? I’ve taken baicalan extensively and found it to initiate quite an immune response (herx) – though all the studies show it to be anti-inflammatory and an analgesic.

Baicalin is a constituent of both Scutellaria baicalensis and the Scutellaria lateriflora. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baicalin Buhner mostly discusses the whole herb Scutellaria baicalensis root. He mentions the studies on baicalin’s neuroprotective activity. It “inhibits the aggregation of neuronal amyloidogenic proteins and induces the dissolution of amyloid plagues.” “attenuates the induced-cell death of brain microglia”, “inhibits IL-1beta and TNF-alfa-induced inflammatory cytokine production …”, “promotes repair of DNA single-strand breakage caused by hydrogen peroxide in cultured fibroblasts.”, protecting macrophages, antidepressant, “reduces the severity of relapsing-remitting experimental autoimmune encephalomeylitis ..in mouse model of multiple sclerosis”.
maybe you had a herx due to its antiviral properties?: “Baicalin, administered to mice infected with influenza virus, increases survival time, eliminates virus from the lungs, reduces hemagglutination titer and infectivity in lungs, and reverses pneumonic pathological changes.”

p. 142: B. baicalensis as a whole herb (root only) is a strong antiviral. “It shows actions against influenza A (H1N1, H3N2), influenza B, Sendai virus (parainfluenza), respiratory syncytial virus, vesicular stomatitis virus, HIV-1, hepatitis A, hepatitis B (resistant and non), hepatitis C, and coliphage MS2. It does have a fairly wide range of action against bacteria and some other microbes but the effects are variable. The strongest seems to be against staph.
It has shown some action against some other microbes: …..Candida albicans, Chlamydia trachomatis, …Helicobacter pylori, Klebsiella pneumoniae, …Mycobacterium smegmatis, Mycobacterium tuberculosis”, a few types of Salmonella, 3 types of Staph, 2 of Strep + a few more. “But, again, these antibacterial actions are apparently mild in most cases. As an antimicrobial, Chinese skullcap is primarily an antiviral herb”.
A lot more of its actions are described, but the main reason it is recommended is due to its strong cytokine impacts.

Caution: it can increase the bioavailability of the drugs, thus increasing their impacts. It may interact additively with blood-pressure-lowering drugs. Type 1 diabetics should exercise strong caution with the herb as it can affect insulin and blood sugar levels.

See? It’s been such a long post, and it is not even a good summery. There are 12 pages packed with information. That’s the reason that even in a separate thread devoted to just cytokine blockers, there would be just too much information to put there. Even olive oil, discussed within the antibacterial part of the protocol, inhibits some cytokines.

For Barb:
Now that I opened the book on olive oil section, I think you will find it most helpful!
p.182: “..the oil, as a medicinal herb, hits in four major areas of mycoplasma medicinal activity: specific antibacterial, anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, and nutrient replacement.”
“In vitro studies on the oil have found a wide range of actions: it is highly protective of red blood cells against oxidative damage (perfect for mycoplasma), protects human peripheral mononuclear cells from hydrogen-peroxide-induced damage (Krys: mycoplasmas cause damage through inducing through ROS, reactive oxygen species), inhibits endothelial-cells activation by bacterial membrane molecules and their cytokine expression thus stopping angiogenesis process, is proapoptotic, antiproliferative, antiinflammatory, and antimicrobial. It downregulates a number of inflammatory compounds including COX-2 and Bcl-2….The oleic acid is particularly inhibitive of TNF-alfa.”
p.185: “Besides its antibacterial actions, oleuropein is strongly protective of cells from bacterial membrane constituents. It protects endothelial tissue inflammation, stops angiogenesis, reduces monocytoid cell adhesion to cytokine-stimulated endothelial cells, inhibits VCAM-1, and inhibits NF-kappaB…Oleuropein inhibits IL-1beta, IL-6, TNF-alfa, iNOS< COX-2, and MMP-9."
The best way to take is after the meal, which makes it more bioavailable. And the effects for mycoplasmas are enhanced when one also takes Olive leaf extract (anti-inflammatory, antiviral, potent antioxidant, also inhibits some cytokines).

You will also find Japanese Knotweed helpful. p.218-219: It “is an an angiogenesis modulator…It is a classic tonic herb in this respect and the only one I am aware of for maintaining the blood vessels themselves. It has, as part of this mode of action, specific modulating and protectant actions on the endothelial cells that line blood vessels.”
“It inhibits tissue factor expression in vascular cells in response to pathological stimuli, including bacterial, thus reducing inflammation in the heart and vascular tissue. It normalizes vascular endothelia.” + a lot more.

p. 224: Herb/Drug and Herb/Herb Interactions
Should not be used with blood-thinning agents. Discontinue use of the herb 10 days prior to surgery. The plant is a synergist and may potentiate the effects of pharmaceuticals and other herbs.

Sorry for the length! I omitted a lot, but the post still runs like a marathon!
I think many pieces of the puzzle will connect for you when you read the book.
May things improve and may you reach good health soon,
Krys

[BG]

John,

I know that polenta and popcorn may not be the best for me but rice has been found to contain high levels of arsenic so I don’t want to eat rice too often and I seem to need some grains because without them I don’t feel well either. I hate the taste of quinoa so rarely eat it and I dislike the taste of buckwheat but still eat it infrequently. I love oatmeal but can’t stand it without a lot of sugar, honey, or whatever which raises my blood sugar too much, etc. Did you know that popcorn has been found to contain more antioxidants than many fruits and vegetables? For that reason, I eat popcorn.

Krys,

Thanks for the info. I got Buhner’s previous book about treating Lyme and coinfections from the library and am on the waiting list for the recently published book you mentioned which is on order and due to arrive soon. You provided some excellent suggestions. My only concern is finding a source for high quality herbs. Many products have been found to not contain the ingredients the label says it contains or in differing concentrations. Also, many products have been found to be contaminated with heavy metals and other toxins. How does one find a reliable source of quality herbs in an unregulated market?

Barb

[Krys]

Hi Barb,
John’s suggestions are excellent.
Whatever the infectious agent behind Chronic vasculitis of 20-30 years duration, it has bound to have affected all cillia, including gut lining. So the foods consumed will affect the veins, too.
In spite of reading voraciously for the last 4 years, I can’t pretend to understand all of this.

I can relate to your needing some grains . Part is our addiction due to life long habit, not helped by the fact that some molecules /chemicals in gluten adhere to the same receptors as morphin and potent drugs do. (Sorry if I did not express it right, maybe messed something up in the process. I have a tendency to oversimplify just to be able to “get it”.)
There was a time when on starch-free diet (sugar-free, too), I started feeling very week and when I tried to put the inflammation down with green juices, or even carrot juice + cooked veggies only, I developed quite severe trembling, both the outer body and even more intensely trembling of many inner organs. I was also very weak physically and had very low body temperature, being very “cold” acc. to TCM. Cold foods are contraindicated then (juices are “cold”) and grains, being warming foods are a good choice. I started having oatmeal for breakfast and I felt better. Once, my exhaustion got suddenly lifted up when out of curiosity I tried 4 different honeys. I wanted to compare all different tastes and thus consumed good 2 tsp. It made me think that maybe blood sugar was consistently too low. I don’t really know, but since then, I allow myself oatmeal (taking breaks to check if it affects me badly) and if I crave sweets, I take a tsp, or more, of honey. Honey is absorbed early within the digestive tract, so it feeds the bugs less than other sweets and will not be pro-inflammatory (or less so).
I know it is hard to push oneself to eat all the foods one doesn’t feel like eating, but if you do, you may eventually develop liking for them. It is possible to start enjoying oatmeal without sugar. Adding a bit cinnamon, some butter or coconut oil, some coconut milk.
I would urge you to try getting on gluten-free and dairy-free diet. Give yourself a set amount of time for the transition. Or go for it and have some rewards handy when you succeed for a couple of days. Having plenty of allowable foods that one enjoys helps. As far as taste goes, when one skips gluten completely (and dairy and additionally whatever other food intolerance we have), the taste buds eventually start to cooperate. If one keeps eating them, even once in a long while, the addict part of us will torture us with revulsion to good for us foods and strong cravings for what is bad for us. I know it from repeated experiences! 😳 😆
Oatmeal with 2 grated apples + some cinnamon is delicious even without milk. 1/2 tsp of honey + some coconut milk makes it tastier than desert.
Buckwheat tastes much better if you add a clove of garlic + some olive oil to cooking. It loses its specific smell which I’ve never grown to appreciate. If you saute some veggies of your choice and then mix all up with buckwheat, it becomes fragrant and really tasty. You can add some herbs for more aromatic outcome.
Quinoa and millet are acquired tastes that take a long time to acquire. 😆 Adding your favorite spices + some oil + mixing them up with sauteed veggies should help.
Going dairy-free may bring about some dramatic improvement. It was the hardest one for me to give up and like a true addict I found ways around it. (I did not feel I was one, I just creatively found many reasons for continued intake! 😆 😳 )

Last couple of years if I consume gluten or dairy the reaction is immediate inflammation in my brain, heart and veins + joint pain.
My heart and veins additionally get inflamed after ingestion of banana, corn and chocolate. Little inflamed after some other foods. Those are my additional intollerances, I DO hope your body is kinder in this respect. It is worthwhile, health-wise, to find out one’s own food intollerances. Eliminating them (hopefully only until gut lining is healed) will quite drastically add to healing.

I would add HAWTHORN to the herbs taken. It protects the heart and the veins. Swanson has got a good price on the capsules and they even do not add magnesium stearate (added to make the capsules slide faster after they fill them up. It detrimentally affects nutrient absorption in the gut). Mountain Rose Herbs sells organic hawthorn at a good price. It does not taste bad, you can take it in powder form and chase it with water or encapsulate it yourself.

Buhner, p. 352: Hawthorn berries “are specific for nearly every manifestation of heart disease: artheriosclerosis, cardiac arrhythmia, congestive heart failure, hypertension, and peripheral vascular disease.”
p.353: “hawthorn contains procyanidins, a flavonoid complex similar to those found in bilberry (anthocyanosides) and pine bark and grape seed extract (proanthocyanidins). Procyanidins protect collagen fibers from damage, increase their elasticity, and reinforce the cross-linking of collagen fibers to make them stronger and hence make the blood vessels less prone to cracking. Procyanidins increase intercellular vitamin C level (which is necessary for collagen synthesis), stimulate circulation to peripheral blood vessels, are potent antioxidants, and are strongly anti-inflammatory. They also lower cell permeability and help protect protect cellular integrity. Like proanthocyanidins, procyanidins promote insulin secretion by the pancreas and inhibit sorbitol accumulation within cells. Both sorbitol, a by-product of glucose metabolism, and glucose naturally damage blood vessel walls and cellular tissues if they are not properly processed by the body. … hawthorn protects the vessels by increasing their strength and integrity while reducing substances in the blood that are caustic to vessel structure.”
“Hawthorn does have some cytokine-inhibitory actions. It inhibits TNF-alfa, IL-6, nitric oxide, and protein tyrosine phoshatase.”

I would add Vitamin C powder (not buffered with calcium: it always caused severe vein constriction for me followed by heart problems).
Magnesium chloride would be best (you can buy it in powder form on Amazon and add to vit. C powder + a little baking soda + juice, like pomegranate or sour cherry juice for improved taste), but any magnesium would be helpful.
If there’s marked thick blood (and possible mini clots) I would add systemic enzyme, Nattokinase having a fabulous histry of beneficial impact.
TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) may be very helpful with vasculitis. It did wonders for my veins, especially after I had specifically asked if anything could be done for severe vein constriction in the neck. The formula I had prescribed (+ acupuncture) was meant to dissolve “phlegm in my veins”. It cleared the biofilm, or whatever it was, pretty fast, maybe too fast, as my blood became suddenly very thick and I developed numbness all over my skin. The formula that was to help with this worked too slow and once I added on my Nattokinase, the results were immediate and for me, it felt like a miracle had happened. Ever since then, I have Nattokinase always handy. I have my whole family on it, even if only once in a long while for healthy individuals.
The below is a lot to read, but what a fabulous reading it is! All relating to heart, veins, blood.
http://cnmwellness.com/?s=Nattokinase

Out of “Herbal Remedies” by Asa Hershoff, N.D., and Andrea Rotelli, N.D.
p. 178 – 179 HEART CONDITIONS
… Apart from dietary change and exercise, nutrition and herbs play a crucial role in heart health. Obviously mediacl diagnosis, treatment and often hospitalization are needed …care also must be taken to avoid those herbs that interact negatively with cardiac drugs…That being said, the following botanical medicines have properties for actual healing the heart and arteries….
Plant medicines provide antioxidant protection and detoxifying capabilities for the heart, strengthening the heart muscle and improving the metabolism and the fuction of the heart cells. many of the same herbs lower cholesterol significantly and can prevent and rverse atreriosclerotic changes in the blood vessels. Other herbs target associated problems, correcting the liver’s cholesterol metabolism or the kidney’s ability to clear fluids and toxins. See alo*Arteriosclerosis * Cholesterol, High * High Blood Pressure *Kidney Conditions * Veins/Circulation
____________
Arjuna ***— Terminalia Arjuna
– Main Ayurvedic heart herb; regulates blood pressure, heart rate
– Increases circulation to coronary arteries. Lowers cholesterol levels.
– Used in angina, congestive heart failure, arrhythmia, as well as asthma.
Bromelain***–Pineapple/Ananas comosus
– natural blood thinner: prevents platelet stickiness and clot formation, while having anti-inflammatory and immune-modulating effects.
Coleus**–Coleus forskohlii
– Lowers blood pressure. Increases heart contractility, relaxes arteries, regulates rhythm, increases blood flow to coronary arteries and brain.
– Used in cingestive heart failure, angina, after stroke, arteriosclerosis.
Curcumin**--Turmeric/Curcuma longa
– Improves blood flow in the arteries, while strengthening blood vessels.
– Reduces “bad” cholesterol, platelet stickiness and blood clot formation.
– Prevents free radical damage in arteries, leading to arteriosclerosis.
Dong Quai**–Angelica sinensis
– Strengthens the heart’s force and volume, smooths irregular rhythms.
– Increases blood flow to coronary arteries, reduces blood pressure.
– Helps poor circulation, combats blood clots, rebuilds blood in anemia.
Ginkgo**–Ginkgo biloba
– Improves circulation, blood flow to the heart and coronary arteries.
– Protects against lack of oxygen to the heart (ischemia) and blood clots.
Hawthorn***–Crataegus oxycantha
– Essential heart tonic, strengthens heart muscles, protects from damage.
– reduces cholesterol, prevents and reverses deposits on arterial walls.
– Increases strength and regularity of heart, slows rate, lowers pressure.
– Dilates coronary arteries, increases blood supply and oxygen to heart.
– Slows advance of heart disease, helps in rehabilitation after heart attack.
– Use in mild arrhythmias, mild hypertension, angina, shortness of breath.
Motherwort**–Leonarus cardiaca
– Lowers blood pressure, if excessive. Calm and steadies heart rhythm.
– balances electrolytes within heart cells. Improves blood flow to heart.
– Strengthens heart, calms cardiac problems related to anxiety, tension.
-Reduces excessive heart rate, calms palpitations of nervous origins.
Olive Leaf*–Olea europea
– lowers blood pressure, relieves arrhythmias, prevents spasms.
– Combats infection anywhere, including heart. Reduces LDL cholesterol.
Red Sage**–Dan Shen/Salvia miltiorrhiza
– Chinese herb used to assist patients recovering heart attack.
– Dilates coronary arteries and increases blood flow to the heart.
– Stimulates circulation, lowers cholesterol; reduces angina, palpitations.
Reishi**–Ganoderma lucidum
– Benefits coronary heart disease, improves palpitations, angina, edema.
– Tonifies the heart; lowers total serum cholesterol and raises HDL. reduces platelet stickiness, prevents blood clots. Improves liver health.
– An adaptogen; relieves fatigue, enhances immunity; anti-inflammatory.
Shittake**–Lentinus edodes
– lowers cholesterol, prevents clot formation, regulates blood sugar.
– Prevents heart attack, stroke and diabetes. Powerful immune stimulant.
– Antioxidant protection, inhibits the formation of arteriosclerotic plaque.

Buhner also describes Motherwort at great length and I have been using it daily.
You may notice improvement immediately, or as it often is the case with herbs, only after a few months’ use.

@BG wrote:

My only concern is finding a source for high quality herbs. Many products have been found to not contain the ingredients the label says it contains or in differing concentrations. Also, many products have been found to be contaminated with heavy metals and other toxins. How does one find a reliable source of quality herbs in an unregulated market?

http://www.mountainroseherbs.com for organic sources. Click on products, then on bulk herbs and spices.
http://www.1stchineseherbs.com or http://www.maxnature.com (you’ll have to use search window at the top to locate the product you want): same sources, same brand (like Plum Flower or Mayway brand: very clean, thorough checking process, no additives, no preservatives, not irradiated) but maxnature is usually much cheaper.
Buhner gives the sources for ready made tinctures and whole herbs. I found an additional, delightful and much cheaper, good quality at http://www.darcyfromtheforest.com Click on products in the right column. She does not carry everything but whatever she does carry is great and only 1/3 price of the same product from elsewhere. She even made a custom order tincture for me at a low regular price.

Again, sorry for a very long post!
May you find something helpful and may whatever you do bring back radiant health to you,
Krys

[PhilC]

Hi Barb,
@BG wrote:

I have relatives who have celiac disease so as soon as I was able I had my DNA analyzed to see if a tendency to develop celiac disease would show up in my genes. It did, it was one of the top five diseases I am predisposed to develop genetically.

The only gluten I consume these days comes from oyster crackers sprinkled on top of my salad or soup or taken with meds to prevent nausea and vomitting, or the rare pizza or whatever.

If you’re going to continue to eat foods containing gluten, it would be best to limit your consumption of such foods to no more often than once a week. That should help reduce your risk of developing gluten intolerance (assuming that you don’t have it yet).

Some other dietary suggestions:

Suggestion #1: Stop eating the following foods: milk, cheese, ice cream, yogurt, and other dairy products. That includes foods like bread, cake, cookies, salad dressing, soup, etc., that contain them, as well as casein, caseinate, or whey. Although not a dairy product, eggs are another food that I try to avoid. In the past I ate them occasionally without ill effect (most of the time), but now I strictly avoid them.

Suggestion #2: Stop eating all nightshade vegetables and all foods that contain them. They are: eggplant, potatoes, tomatoes, and peppers of all kinds (e.g., cayenne, chili peppers, paprika, pimento, green peppers, bell peppers, sweet peppers, etc.). Foods that typically contain nightshade vegetables are catsup/ketchup and barbeque sauce (of course), salad dressing, “spice,” and mayonnaise (usually contains paprika). A few brands of mayonnaise do not contain paprika, so reading a bunch of labels can sometimes pay off.

Some additional reading material:
The “No Nightshades” Diet

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[BG]

Hello everyone,

Just wanted to let you know that I’ve been following up on all of your suggestions. Am waiting for Buhner’s newest book to arrive, saw the documentary “Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead”, researched your other suggestions, etc.

I have been most convinced by the dramatic health improvements documented in “Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead” The two men portrayed had autoimmune vasculitis, were on hydroxychloroquine, methotrexate and/or high doses of prednisone (15 to 20 mgs daily) as well as numerous other meds but they were still sick and in too much pain. Both rebooted their systems by fasting, consuming only micronutrients in the form of raw vegetable and fruit juices for 60 or more days followed by an expanded diet consisting of mostly micronutrients (vegetables, fruits, nuts, seeds and beans) Then I discovered a woman who has had SLE since the age of 15, who has a similar lupus presentation as I, who did the same thing, throwing her lupus into remission using the same fasting reboot. Then I found recent (published 2012) scientific research in an immunolgy journal verifying such a thing as well.

In my case, a combination of genetics and chronic infections caused me to develop lupus but after almost three years of antibiotics, I know intuitively that something else needs to be done so I’m going to try the fasting reboot desribed in “Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead” Thank you DragonSlayer for recommending it. Will let you know how it goes.

Barb

[BG]

Here is the link to the article published in The Journal of Immunology in 2012 re: fasting and lupus: http://www.jimmunol.org/content/188/5/2070.abstract

[PhilC]

Hi Barb,

Have you ever tried taking N-acetyl cysteine (NAC)?

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[BG]

Hi Phil,

No, I haven’t tried NAC yet. It’s on my list of things to do but I haven’t found a reliable source yet. I have unknowingly taken bad supplements before, some over many years time, before I learned they were bad (by bad I mean tainted or not containing what the label says the product contains or a version of a supplement that isn’t bioavailable, etc.) some of which may have contributed to my health problems so now I only purchase supplements that have had the contents and quality of the contents verified by a trustworthy, certified, independent laboratory. I haven’t found a source of NAC that fits that criteria yet.

I started fasting today so I plan to stay off all supplements and will gradually ease off all meds. I plan to try to stay supplement and med free for at least 30 to 60 days then have blood work done to document the changes.

Barb

[BG]

I have a question about nausea, etc.

I was trying a limited fast to try to reset my immune system by consuming only fresh greens, mushrooms, onions, golden beets, butternut squash, and carrots, usually in the form of brothy soup, and locally grown apples that are currently in season. All are foods I normally eat without a problem. The only thing different is that I removed oils, butter, cheese, yogurt, meats, grains, and sugars. I experienced nausea and stomach pain when my stomach was empty so I decided to add back yogurt. I still experienced nausea and stomach pain so added back in nuts. I still experienced nausea and stomach pain so I gradually added salmon, sardines and chicken but still experienced nausea and stomach pain. Soooo, I’m more or less back to my normal diet minus cheese, grains and sugars but I’m still experiencing nausea and stomach pain. Could this be due to something going on with my kidneys or another organ? Just a normal symptom of autoimmune connective tissue disease?

My urine has been acidic for a long time. The last time it was checked it had a ph of 5.0 which is the lowest it has ever been. I also have a high sed rate, normal CRP, high CD4 to CD8 ratio, ANA 1:1280 speckled pattern, etc… The results of all of these tests have steadily gotten worse since I started taking antibiotics July 2010, but my lymphocyte count and GFR steadily improve when I’m on antibiotics and get worse again as soon as I stop taking antibiotics. My blood sugar, thyroid and other markers are in the normal range.

Any ideas about what might be going on and what to do about it? I don’t have any health insurance again (denied because of “multiple health conditions”) so I don’t want to see a doc who then does many hundreds, sometimes many thousands, of dollars of tests but then shrugs their shoulders and ignores everything which is pretty much what they’ve been doing for the last 30 years.

Barb

[DragonSlayer]

Hello, Barb:

Nausea is common when crossing over into ‘benign ketosis’ which is essentially carbohydrate withdrawal.

When doing a fast, there is a characteristic 24 hour headache that begins after about ten hours of food withholding, then a couple of days later, some actual nausea for the transition. This can last for a few hours to longer; some people do not do very well on this, depending upon their experience with food withholding, but a water-only fast might be a better way to rapidly assess whether the longer-term modifications would be helpful. Fasting knocks down most of our gut bacteria including the common fungi, and these ‘react’ when not fed–these will drive us to hunger, and even determine the foods we choose, to some extent.

HEALTH,
John

[BG]

@DragonSlayer wrote:

When doing a fast, there is a characteristic 24 hour headache that begins after about ten hours of food withholding, then a couple of days later, some actual nausea for the transition. This can last for a few hours to longer…

John, that does indeed describe my experience except that the nausea and stomach pain that accompanies my empty stomach continues unabated, whenever I have an empty stomach. This is not a new problem but one that’s chronic when I’m trying to fast.

I’m not sure it’s safe for me to do a water fast without medical supervision, that’s why I was doing a micronutrient fueled fast, but will consider trying it. I used to do water fasts periodically when I was young until I started experiencing too many problems (inadequate protein, hypoglycemia, low blood pressure, passing out, etc.) Maybe I’m just too sick to fast?

Barb

[A Friend]

@BG wrote:

@DragonSlayer wrote:

When doing a fast, there is a characteristic 24 hour headache that begins after about ten hours of food withholding, then a couple of days later, some actual nausea for the transition. This can last for a few hours to longer…

John, that does indeed describe my experience except that the nausea and stomach pain that accompanies my empty stomach continues unabated, whenever I have an empty stomach. This is not a new problem but one that’s chronic when I’m trying to fast.

I’m not sure it’s safe for me to do a water fast without medical supervision, that’s why I was doing a micronutrient fueled fast, but will consider trying it. I used to do water fasts periodically when I was young until I started experiencing too many problems (inadequate protein, hypoglycemia, low blood pressure, passing out, etc.) Maybe I’m just too sick to fast?

Barb

Barb,
I’m glad you replied as you did… for this reason. Several years ago when I wasn’t doing all that well, I decided to do a cleansing fast for several days, and was following a written plan. I had not done a fast like this before. My spouse was out of town, and that made it easier timewise. Seems I prepared some homemade natural mineral broth to drink (probably have a record in my files somewhere). My recall is that about a day or two into the fast, I began having the “darkest” of feelings, but stuck with it. I finished it, and did feel better the last day or two of it than I did during the dark day described.

The thing I want to emphazise has to do with your concern about the water fast — and I believe it’s good to have concern and go slowly. Something that I believe was related to the fast I did, was I very quickly afterward developed some floaters in my left eye. I had never had floaters before. I think my choosing to do some more gentle cleanses to begin with would have been much wiser.

I hope anyone thinking about fasting will do much reading on recommended preliminary steps to take before doing a drastic fast, as too many toxins can be let loose into the body. I still have a dark spot in the white part of my left eye near the pupil.

There are numerous safer ways to detox gradually before beginning a severe fast.

AF

[BG]

AF,

Just to clarify, I was fasting to try to reset my immune system and not to detox. Some detoxification would most likely occur in the process but it wasn’t the purpose of the fast. One can’t reset one’s immune system in the way I intended without fasting or severe calorie restriction.

Barb

[A Friend]

@BG wrote:

AF,
Just to clarify, I was fasting to try to reset my immune system and not to detox. Some detoxification would most likely occur in the process but it wasn’t the purpose of the fast. One can’t reset one’s immune system in the way I intended without fasting or severe calorie restriction.
Barb

Barb,

I’d like to read the information you’ve read on “resetting the immune system.” Have not consciously read this — but sounds interesting. One big thing I learned about resetting my own was that apparently as a Blood Type A, I lacked hydrochloric acid to adequately break down and digest meat protein — leaving much undigested acidic waste for the body to dispose of (and my pH as acidic as the strips measure… when I got around to testing, when I had developed chronic pain as a result of this unknown acidic condition (thought my diet was excellent, but not with the building up of undigested waste). Because (apparently) I had been overly acidic for a time, the body had been borrowing/stealing minerals from my body/bones in order to neutralize these wastes so they could be excreted through the kidneys (these must be neutralized first, or the acids damage the kidneys, which cannot be repaired (cannot heal themselves). In situations like this, the body stores the acidic waste (especially from meat) as far away from the major organs as possible — usually near the hands and feet, I read.

More reading from other sources finally opened my eyes to why nondenatured whey protein had, in previous use, been able to correct an infection when my body/liver could not tolerate the abx prescribed. My AP physician read the Cheney research on this I’d found, and said that was exactly what I needed to do. I first used nondenatured whey protein for six months, once daily, and the abnormal lab (when retested six months later) was normal. What I didn’t fully understand then was that my illness was apparently greatly due to my inability to properly digest protein and extract the needed amino acids. The body MUST have the amino acids needed for the body to make other amino acids and enzymes for every function of the body. Even ATP (I’ve since learned) needed for heart energy for the body must have a number of these ingredients, from which many needed enzymes are made/derived.

So, guess we could say that “key for me” for resetting was getting adequate amino acids in a form my body could readily use was one of my most important pieces of information. It has been an education to read/learn about even more type cases where amino acid deficiency/utilization problems have been key . (A funny thing… I came to understand this better while searching/reading a web site looking for answers for healing for my “grand dog” on a web site spelled Nzymes. It has some amazing healing stories for dogs. My sweet granddog had a terrible injury, had surgery, but didn’t seem to do well. From what I read on the Nzymes site about types of foods, treats, probiotics, etc. (and not all that expensive) she began getting better every day — her vet was even amazed at her progress and how she recovered — and she remains on this regimen. This led me back to ImmunoPro, more reading, and I plan to continue using this (or similar) source of amino acids.

AF

[PhilC]

Hi Barb,

A cautious trial with LDN may be worthwhile. By “cautious,” I mean start at a low dose and slowly try to work up to the maximum dose (3.0 to 4.0 mg). Keep in mind that the optimum dose for you may be less than the maximum dose. By the way, the lowest dose known to have an effect is 0.5 mg (not 1.5 mg, as commonly reported). Just something to consider discussing with your doctor…

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[Author]

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