Seratonin linked to Scleroderma (5-HTP)

[hopefulmama]

Hi all,

Saw my LLMD yesterday and she recommended a supplement called 5-HTP for mild depression. I went to the health food store and bought some. Then placed a call to AP dr to see if he approved the addition to my protocol. While waiting to hear from him, I did some research and found the 2 studies showing that patients taking 5-HTP in conjunction with a Parkinson’s drug called carbidopa developed a scleroderma-like illness!

I began to investigate the relationship between seratonin and scleroderma, and found this study which is very interesting:

Platelet-derived serotonin links vascular disease and tissue fibrosis.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21518801
J Exp Med. 2011 May 9;208(5):961-72. Epub 2011 Apr 25.

One key quote from the abstract: “Pharmacologic inactivation of 5-HT(2B) also effectively prevented the onset of experimental fibrosis and ameliorated established fibrosis.”

I haven’t quite wrapped my head around the science of all of this, but is it saying that reducing levels of seratonin can prevent the onset of fibrosis? Would love to hear from those who have more of a biology background than I do.

For now it sounds like I should stay away from the 5-HTP… at least until I understand it all better. Could depression actually be protective – as funny as that sounds? I wonder how many SD patients have taken antidepressants in the past?

[hopefulmama]

Here is the text of the original study in its entirety. I’m really hoping someone can explain it to me – seems important 🙂
http://jem.rupress.org/content/208/5/961.full.pdf+html

[PhilC]

Hi Andrea,

Are you supplementing with magnesium? It is supposedly good for depression. However, it must be in a form that is well-absorbed, like magnesium citrate or magnesium malate. I prefer magnesium malate.

By the way, magnesium appears to also be good for insomnia. My insomnia disappeared the same day that I started taking a good magnesium supplement, and hasn’t returned. Before that, I thought I was getting enough magesium because I was taking Cal-Mag-Zinc. Unfortunately, Cal-Mag-Zinc contains magnesium oxide, which is next to worthless.

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[A Friend]

Hopefulmama,

Very interesting thread you have here, especially to me since finding so much help for my own medical problems — both a number of years ago using non-denatured whey protein containing all of the amino acids, and more recently for bone-related issues, and even in November 2011 have found amino acids key… and very related to eyes/optical/macular degeneration, too, which I was diagnosed with two or three years ago.

I’m not wishing to hijack your topic, but hopefully to add to it… to maybe the “obvious” that you, like me, may have been overlooking all these years. To have all the serious problems I’ve been having … in a domino-type-effect… ALL lead back to lack of Amino Acids (greatly also caused by lack of digestive ability/assimilation/absorption in the body, as my diet has always been very good) has been one of my biggest “Ahaa” moments. (If any of you have a need for help for Macular Degeneration, an interview with Dr. Jonathan V. Wright has been a very recent “eye-opening” (forgive the pun) event I’ll later share more in a separate topic. I’ve already begun looking into getting locally the protocols recommended in the interview for MacDegen.)

[EDIT: Found it quickly, so will add it here:
http://the-moneychanger.com/articles_files/health/macular_degeneration.phtml
After clicking the above link, there is a bio on Dr. Jonathan V. Wright, and the interview follows.]

[Let me add here, if someone has been on psychiatric drugs, I understand the patient should not suddenly discontinue these and begin using amino acids — there are all kinds of problems that can result from that. A local group member has gone through having to be on those for many years, and this type thing is something a holistic/complementary psychiatrist/psychologist needs to be involved in. This patient even shared some of her chemistry reports. On a site with archived radio programs of a certified clinical nutritionist, there are recorded programs there by experts in this field who’ve spoken out against the use of psychiatric drugs longterm instead of balancing the amino acids controlling psychiatric functioning.]

Below is a site and links that have so much information. It is from the Well Wisdom site where I get ImmunoPro. Under one of the blue links (e. Diseases of aging) is information you may find helpful and/or interesting.

I believe this first site/link is iin narrative form on the many subjects:

http://www.wellwisdom.com/pages/Whey-Facts.html#diseases

This report below is on Macular Degeneration, in particular to show the power of amino acids for our eyes.

http://www.wellwisdom.com/research_WPCreport.php#macular

WHEY PROTEIN REPORT
Current Concepts on Whey Protein Usage, Prepared for The Cleveland Eye Clinic
by: David Marshall, Jr., O.D., Ph.D., Consult

Contents: [Note: The links below are live on the site.]
– Introduction –
A. What is WHEY?
B. Whey Manufacturing
– Current Concepts of Whey Usage –
A. Nutritional Value
B. Body-building
– Clinical Implications –
1. Wound Healing
2. Glutathione
a. Glutathione Synthesis
b. Scavenger Pathways
3. Ocular Ramifications
a. Cataracts
1. Mechanisms of cataractogenesis
2. Cataractogenesis and Glutathione
b. Macular degeneration
c. Immunity
d. Cancer
e. Diseases of Aging
f. HIV and AIDS

Happy Reading….

[hopefulmama]

Dear Phil and A Friend,

Thank you so much for your insightful posts and great tips for relieving depression. I need to look a lot further into everything you’ve mentioned – despite thinking and researching a lot about all of this for the last 18 months (nearly) there is so much I am still completely a novice at. So very much I don’t know.

I found another study tonight which I think is really crucial for folks who do have Scleroderma…

5-Hydroxytryptamine and tryptamine pathways in scleroderma
A. STACHOW, S. JABLONSKA, A. SKIENDZIELEWSKA
Article first published online: 29 JUL 2006
(http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2133.1977.tb15060.x/abstract?systemMessage=Wiley+Online+Library+will+be+disrupted+3+Dec+from+10-12+GMT+for+monthly+maintenance)

“Levels of 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid, indoleacetic acid and total indoles were determined in the urine of 23 patients with systemic scleroderma and 7 patients with cutaneous scleroderma, before and after peroral loading with L-tryptophan (o’I g/kg body weight). Before loading, 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid levels were normal in nearly all cases of systemic scleroderma as well as of cutaneous scleroderma; however after loading, in nearly one half of cases there was no normal increase of this metabolite. These results suggest impaired transformation of serotonin into 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid. A disproportionately high ratio of total indoles to indoleacetic acid suggests the presence of excess of tryptamine. The results of the study may indicate that in scleroderma metabolism of biogenic amines derived from tryptophan is abnormal, probably as a result of impaired activity of monoamine oxidase.”

I don’t know what half of those words mean, but the message seems clear… metabolism of biogenic amines derived from tryptophan is abnormal… This is all linked to serotonin and serotonin receptors!

Slowly but surely, I feel like I’m painting a picture that becomes more clear. Just a lot more facets to cover at this point. I have so much left to learn and understand.

Take care everyone & thanks sooo much.

A

[hopefulmama]

Dear Phil and A Friend,

Thank you so much for your insightful posts and great tips for relieving depression. I need to look a lot further into everything you’ve mentioned – despite thinking and researching a lot about all of this for the last 18 months (nearly) there is so much I am still completely a novice at. So very much I don’t know.

I found another study tonight which I think is really crucial for folks who do have Scleroderma…

5-Hydroxytryptamine and tryptamine pathways in scleroderma
A. STACHOW, S. JABLONSKA, A. SKIENDZIELEWSKA
Article first published online: 29 JUL 2006
(http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2133.1977.tb15060.x/abstract?systemMessage=Wiley+Online+Library+will+be+disrupted+3+Dec+from+10-12+GMT+for+monthly+maintenance)

“Levels of 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid, indoleacetic acid and total indoles were determined in the urine of 23 patients with systemic scleroderma and 7 patients with cutaneous scleroderma, before and after peroral loading with L-tryptophan (o’I g/kg body weight). Before loading, 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid levels were normal in nearly all cases of systemic scleroderma as well as of cutaneous scleroderma; however after loading, in nearly one half of cases there was no normal increase of this metabolite. These results suggest impaired transformation of serotonin into 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid. A disproportionately high ratio of total indoles to indoleacetic acid suggests the presence of excess of tryptamine. The results of the study may indicate that in scleroderma metabolism of biogenic amines derived from tryptophan is abnormal, probably as a result of impaired activity of monoamine oxidase.”

I don’t know what half of those words mean, but the message seems clear… metabolism of biogenic amines derived from tryptophan is abnormal… This is all linked to serotonin and serotonin receptors!

Slowly but surely, I feel like I’m painting a picture that becomes more clear. Just a lot more facets to cover at this point. I have so much left to learn and understand.

Take care everyone & thanks sooo much.

A

[Author]

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