Positive ccp and AP

[pittRAlady]

Just wondering if anyone else out there has had success with the AP and we’re strong positive on their anti ccp test? Trying to decide treatment course

[lynnie_sydney]

pittRAlady
anti-ccp did not become part of standard testing in ACR Testing Guidelines for RA until 2010 – which is why you won’t see that mentioned a great deal in testimonials. See link below.

I think someone has mentioned before that the majority of frequent visitors to this forum with RA are not people who are in or close to remission but are generally much earlier on their AP road – which is why the majority of success stories are to be found in testimonials.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[Maz]

@pittRAlady wrote:

Just wondering if anyone else out there has had success with the AP and we’re strong positive on their anti ccp test? Trying to decide treatment course

Hi pittRA lady,

Anti-ccp antibodies are higher in folks with dental infections and p.gingivalis has been studied in this context. This infection causes citrullination to which those who are predisposed (perhaps genetically and/or due to something else, like differences in oral pH) will produce auto-antibodies. This oral infection loves the tissues and bone around the teeth, causing bone erosion, and is transported through the body, systemically, to other ports of call which are similar in make-up – namely, the joints, which is where bone erosion is also found in RA. The connection is so clear it, it’s startling. Orthopedists know of this connection and it’s probably why they want folks to make sure their teeth are in good order before performing joint replacement surgery, because oral infections (as well as others e.g. those causing UTIs) travel and can cause serious infections holed up in biofilms in replaced joints. It was also a standard of care to treat anyone, prophylactically, with an antibiotic prior to any sort of dental work, including routine cleanings, when they had mitral valve prolapse of the heart…which also speaks to the systemic nature of oral bugs. In fact, they also found the genetic material of trepenoma denticola (oral spirochete) in Otzi, the iceman’s hip!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2748386/

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11430

I have found that penicillins have been incredible for lowering my anti-CCP, which is pretty much unheard of. Moxatag, an extended release amoxicillin, brought down my anti-CCP by 40 points a month. Dr. Brown also used penicillins for folks who had a history of strep and it’s possible that although this lab wasn’t available in Brown’s day, he was also treating other cell-walled pathogens in addition (penicillins are bacteriocidal and target and kill cell-walled bugs).

The following presentation from rheumatology.org.uk is very in-depth and rheumatologists should know of this connection by now, but clearly aren’t making it known to patients how important it is to keep those gnashers in good order, particularly in folks with certain genetic haplotypes (HLR-DR1/4)

http://www.rheumatology.org.uk/includes/documents/cm_docs/2010/h/hall01_thur_1400_venables.pdf

By way of example, when I asked my first Lyme doc whether I had RA or Lyme, he said, “It’s both. Once we clean up the infections, the RA should remit.” He also told me that RA was a “reactive” arthritis…meaning the body was reacting to infection. These infections are very, very tricky…they hole up inside our own cells, slathering their toxic waste over our tissues and alerting our immune system to a foreign invader. The immune system reacts, just as it should, to this foreign invader’s toxic message (antigens, also known as bacterial endotoxin), but as the bug is inside our own cells, this makes our tissues the collateral damage. So, yes, it is a self-attack or autoimmunity reaction, but the immune system is doing exactly what it should and just being tricked by these stealthy organisms….which, incidentally, also shape-shift and hide behind the sticky matrix of biofilms (like the slime on one’s teeth) throughout the body.

Don’t mean to offer TMI, but in the case of RA, it’s really not an either/or if one adheres to this infectious theory….it’s both.

[pittRAlady]

Maz,

Did your anti-ccp stay down after discontinuing the penicillan? I am worried about the anti-ccp because my rheumatologist stated, and alot of the research I have found states that people with RA and positive anti-ccp have more erosive form of the disease with alot of joint damage occurring in the first three years following diagnosis. at 31, I do not want to be in that category. Got a little boy that I need to be able to chase around and raise. Excited to hear what Dr. B says next week.

[Maz]

@pittRAlady wrote:

Maz,

Did your anti-ccp stay down after discontinuing the penicillan?

My anti-ccp was >250 in the early days right after diagnosis, which at the time was the highest number Quest would provide from the labs 8 years ago. Now the lab provides the exact number on the day of the draw. So, it could well have been much higher and I wouldn’t have known. Yes, since being on the first round of the Moxatag and Diflucan combo, the anti-CCP came down to normal and has never got as high as that again. It does waver around at times with occasional flares, but a few months of the same protocol usually sorts it out. I’m in the unfortunate position of not being able to use minocycline, which actually brought me to remission (along with pulsed azithromycin) in my second year of treatment as I have a tendency to develop drug-induced lupus from a number of different drugs. So, it was incredibly uplifting to find that the Moxatag/Diflucan protocol was able to bring me back to center after I experienced drug-induced lupus from mino.

Very best of wishes for your appt with Dr. B. next week. Looking forward to hearing how it all goes for you, PittRaLady. 🙂

[Author]

Posts