OMG Gum Infection

[Patti D]

OMG I am so happy to be posting. I forgot my password and yahda yahda yada!!! Nice work guys . The new site looks awesome.
I have not posted in quite a while and feel guilty. I hope everyone is feeling pain free and able to enjoy the holiday!

Maz, Kim, Trudi Cheryl & Lynnie Thank you for all of your hard work in getting things up and running. I checked back often and saw Lynnie was running the show and felt bad for all of the other volunteers who faithfully listen to all of our issues and respond.

Happy Thanksgiving to all of our US friends. Now here is my deal. I had a crown put on around 9 months ago and low and behold I need gum surgery around that crown. Developed a 7 mm pocket with an infection so Monday after I teach the entire office CPR(don’t even ask how I got into this one) I go right from that to osseous surgery with a bone replacement graft. I have been doing so well for so long, I am concerned about a few things. They want me to go on Amoxicillin 500 mg 3 times a day for 10 days. Also a steroid which of course I refused. Also a rinse and Diclofenac/K 50 mg. So I whined pretty good about going off of my minocycline. I have been on it for almost 3 years now. The pharmacist said I could take the two together but one may reduce the properties of the other. Does anyone take both on the same day?
Maz, you are still on amoxicillin right?
Thank you in advance for your response. Of course I went back to that roadback issue that talked about the correllation of rheumatoid arthritis & gum disease. Actually, that is why I consented as I think it may be a good thing that I am having it treated. All of the literature points to treatment of periodontal disease is a good thing for someone with RA.
Your thoughts Dear Friends!

Patti

[lynnie_sydney]

Patti – great to see you! 😀 😀 😀
Firstly, did you see this thread started by Suzanne? Well worth having a look through if not. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5221

Also, not sure if Maz has “gone” for the Thanksgiving holiday yet. She is still on Moxatag I believe (check her signature). I believe you can take both amoxy and mino but not at the same time – they are contra-indicated together. If it were me, I’d take the amoxy 3 x daily and take a very short break from the mino while I was doing it. It would be hard to separate sufficiently imo and 10 days should not be a problem. There is evidence that the tetras reduce the effectiveness of the cillins.
http://www.webmd.com/drugs/drug-5919-Tetracycline+Oral.aspx?drugid=5919&drugname=Tetracycline+Oral&dmid=176&dmtitle=TETRACYCLINES/PENICILLINS&intrtype=DRUG&pagenumber=9

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[Patti D]

Thank you Lynnie!!
Such a quick response. You know my mino is like my security blanket. I have faithfully taken it for almost 3 years actually it is 3 years now. Who knows maybe the break for 10 days and the use of the amoxicillin might be good. I just don’t want any back stepping as I have been so good thanks to my mino>. The pharmacist said the tetracycline & amoxicillin do not go together but mino is ok. The dose is so much greater from the amoxicillin 500mg 3x a day vs 100mg of mino daily. Of course my fear is a relapse.
Thanks for Susans info. I went back on some old threads and looks like periodontal disease has been talked about before. It would be interesting to see how many of us have this issue. I take such good care of my gums and use a water pic ,floss, mouth wash & sonic tooth brush. My gums are healthy but this area by the crown is not.
Thanks again!
Patti

[Kim]

Hey Patti,

So good to see you back, but oh, you poor baby! 😥 Oral issues can be more painful than anything else and will just shut you down. Sure hope you can get some relief a.s.a.p.

Take care….kim

[Maz]

@Patti D wrote:

I have been doing so well for so long, I am concerned about a few things. They want me to go on Amoxicillin 500 mg 3 times a day for 10 days. Also a steroid which of course I refused. Also a rinse and Diclofenac/K 50 mg. So I whined pretty good about going off of my minocycline. I have been on it for almost 3 years now. The pharmacist said I could take the two together but one may reduce the properties of the other. Does anyone take both on the same day?

Maz, you are still on amoxicillin right?

Patti, it’s always GREAT to see you here and how could we not love and miss our “potty mouth Patti?” 😆 Must tell you that Lynnie really took the lion’s share of getting the new forum sorted and holding the fort on the old forum while so many couldn’t get access. She did an amazing job and we’re all grateful to her for all the hard work she put in, liasing with the webmaster and trouble-shooting everything. I’m a complete nincompoop when it comes to the technicalities of internet and software stuff…so a huge round of applause to Lynnie for saving the day!

In answer to your questions…yup, I took 150mg doxy in one dose in the middle of the day while on Moxatag (extended release amoxicillin). I took the Moxatag in the morning and evening and left 6 hours between those and the doxy dose to keep them spaced well apart. The Moxatag was fabulous while I was on it for 8 months (775mg BID) and my anti-CCP came down in huge 40 point chuncks during that time. I had one doctor tell me that he felt it was due to the penicillin’s anti-inflammatory effects, but if that were so, then those on biologic drugs would experience the same effects and studies have shown otherwise (RF may decrease but anti-CCP usually only comes down by about 10% and stops there).

As Lynnie mentioned, the interaction between tetras and penicillins are that tetras may reduce the effectiveness of the penicillin, which when one has an acute infection, this can interfere with healing. So, I second Lynnie’s comments about this….if it was me and I needed to take an a penicillin for just a short course to side-track an acute infection, I’d probably drop my tetra for that period. A week or so really doesn’t make a huge lot of difference in the overal scheme of things. Brown used to do washouts of a week when patients had hypersensitivity issues and I’ve been off tetras for long periods while on other abx for my Lyme and it hasn’t changed much, progress-wise. Should share with you, though, that on day 3 of the Moxatag, my herx hit in a big way and lasted for 5 weeks. Mind you, I wasn’t on a short-course. If you noticed worsening while on the amoxy, then it might also be hitting your Lyme. Once past my herxing on it, I continued to feel better and better. 🙂

One thing that might be worth a mention, Patti, if you haven’t already started your amoxy is that oral clindamycin is often used for oral infections and dental work. This abx is often used in AP in combination with mino and is a really nice adjunct. Probiotics are pretty important with clindy, however, and when I was on it for some dental work a couple years ago, I just increased my daily dose to avoid any gut issues.

Hope your poor tooth feels better soon! Let us know how you get on with your mini-protocol change.

[Patti D]

Thank you Maz, Kim & Lynnie!
As always you pulled through for me. I am in a bit of a quandary right now as my great doctor has retired thanks to the new health care plan and I am shopping for a lyme literate, in my insurance plan doctor. Trudi has recommended her doctor who is now lyme literate so I may pay out of pocket because I won’t go backwards now. This is why I have no one to bounce the idea off of the amoxicillin vs minocycline issue. Maz, I was taking clindy 250 mg. once a week for a few months but I noticed no difference so stopped. I think the dose my doctor had me on was too small to do anything . Maybe with a lyme docotr I can get some changes with my meds.
I am going to take the chance and stop the mino for the first time in 3 years and hope there are no huge herxs although I will be off of work until Friday so if I do herx IT NEEDS TO BE OVER WITH BY FRIDAY. HAHAHAHA!!!
Oh man,I am telling you I am an absolute bossy little thing when it comes to yelling at the bugs that have taken up residence in this girls body. I will keep you posted. Kind of a disappointment to have this happen as I was going to get away with hubby for 3 days and now can’t go. This too shall pass and life is really good!!

Patti

[PhilC]

Hi Patti,

If I were in your situation I probably would not stop taking the minocycline. I might cut my dose in half or take it MWF (temporarily) instead (but probably not). Looking at the risks vs. benefits, it just doesn’t seem like a smart idea to stop taking minocycline completely because it might reduce the effectiveness of the amoxicillin. Most likely it won’t. I just went to doublecheckmd.com and checked for interactions between amoxicillin and minocycline. This is what it said: “In most cases, these drugs are safe to take together.”

Here’s how I look at the situation. If you keep taking the minocycline and the amoxicillin doesn’t work quite as well as it should, you might have to take it longer than ten days, and possibly also reducing your minocycline dose as well (though not necessarily). Not really that big of a deal. On the other hand, if you stop taking minocycline and it stops working as well as did, then that is a big deal. If that happens, your butt’s going to get really sore from you kicking yourself over and over. 😀 Of course, I may be missing something, but it seems to me that stopping the minocycline because of the remote possibility that it might interfere with the effectiveness of the amoxicillin is taking a big risk to avoid a small one.

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[Trudi]

“Maz, Kim, Trudi Cheryl & Lynnie Thank you for all of your hard work in getting things up and running. “

Hi Patti–
Thanks for giving me some credit–but I had absolutely nothing to do with getting this new site up and running. It is a great new site, isn’t it!!

I am so sorry to hear about the gum infection and surgery coming up on Monday. You’re in my prayers–hope all goes well!!

Give a call when you are home and recovering–

Take care,
Trudi

Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

[Patti D]

Trudi,
You are such a sweetie. Yes, I know you didn’t help with the new roadback site but you DID help me on the phone about two weeks ago so I guess I am just a “lumper”.I so appreciated our great conversation. Isn’t it great to be in the same company with those wonderful RB ladies:))))
Thanks so much for the prayers, and hoping they don’t have to take that tooth out tomorrow. I will keep you all posted. Hubby is out of town but my sweet daughter is coming over for a “slumber party”. I am in good hands.

Patti

[Patti D]

Phil,
Oh boy, I am thinking twice about skipping the mino for 10 days. The pharmacist insisted if I take the mino away from the amoxicillin I should be okay.The amoxicillin is broad spectrum and the mino is very narrow spectrum so both will be hitting different bugs.
Like Randy says, “blast the bastards”. I am thinking 2 hours at least between the two should do it. I may change my mind if I get gut rot from too many antibiotics so I guess I will have to see tomorrow. Anyone else with any experiences to share chime in.
Thanks Phil and like I said I am still in a quandary.
Patti

[Kim]

Good luck, Patti. 😉

Just for the record…………I did NOT have anything to do with the software update, and that’s a good thing! 😆

Take care…..kim

[Patti D]

God I love you guys!
This has to be the most humble group I have ever seen. As I told Trudi I am a lumper. You all have your part in making this cyber family functional and for that I am grateful!!!!! Lynnie, Cheryl, Maz, Kim, Maria, Parisa, and Trudi you too thank you!
Now the good news for me, I still have my tooth and the procedure went well. 4 stitches, not much swelling and that’s about it.
Tomorrow I start the amoxicillin and I think I will continue to take my mino but space it at least 2 hours apart. The dentist assured me that the mino would really help get rid of the bugs that have taken host to tooth number 30 , so I am going for it.
I have not had vicodin since the day I was so unbelievably sick with the lyme onset. This time was so different and really knocked out the jaw pain. 3 years ago it did absolutely nothing so I know I am really doing great.
Thank you everyone for your thoughts.

Patti

[Kim]

Geez, Patti, I’ve never seen anyone so giddy after oral surgery! 😆 That vicodin sure made you “happy”, how are you feeling today? 😉

Take care…..kim

[Patti D]

Thanks Kim,
I am actually doing very well. No vicodin today. I was a little loopy yesterday and actually just called the dentist about the diclofenac/k. I am so dizzy from this and the funny thing is it is a pain med for rheumatoid arthritis. I refused the steroid, so this was all I was taking for inflammation. It seems to strong so I am just going to take aleve next round so I can at least make some “mush” for dinner.
Ok you have a mac and are able to add those cute little smiley faces. How so ????

Patti

[Kim]

@Patti D wrote:

Thanks Kim,
I am actually doing very well. No vicodin today. I was a little loopy yesterday and actually just called the dentist about the diclofenac/k. I am so dizzy from this and the funny thing is it is a pain med for rheumatoid arthritis. I refused the steroid, so this was all I was taking for inflammation. It seems to strong so I am just going to take aleve next round so I can at least make some “mush” for dinner.
Ok you have a mac and are able to add those cute little smiley faces. How so ????

Patti

So happy to hear you really are doing better today.

When I use both the “quote” function and the “smiley” function it doesn’t display properly on my Mac as I’m typing, but once I’ve submitted it then it’s fine, so you might just try and see if yours will do the same.

Take care…..kim

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