Nature of the ‘fortresses’ protecting mycoplasam colonies

[Anonymous]

On page 219 of Schamell’s book Dr. Brown talks about how inaccessible the mycoplasma colonies are, referring to structures the bodies make as walls or ” tiny fortresses around the causative factor “

I would like to know what the current thinking/science is on this subject, but I don’t know where to begin, as I am a loss as to what would be a proper key word to use as a search. I am wondering if these ” fortresses ” could be dismantled with circulating enzymes, such as the product made by Jon Barron. Anyone with some insight. PS I searched the post for mycoplasma accessibility and mycoplasma fortress and got no where.

Thanks,

John Wagoner

[Maz]

@John Wagoner wrote:

On page 219 of Schamell’s book Dr. Brown talks about how inaccessible the mycoplasma colonies are, referring to structures the bodies make as walls or ” tiny fortresses around the causative factor “

I would like to know what the current thinking/science is on this subject, but I don’t know where to begin, as I am a loss as to what would be a proper key word to use as a search. I am wondering if these ” fortresses ” could be dismantled with circulating enzymes, such as the product made by Jon Barron. Anyone with some insight. PS I searched the post for mycoplasma accessibility and mycoplasma fortress and got no where.

Thanks,

John Wagoner

Hi John,

Welcome to the RBF discussion forum. 🙂 Do you have a rheumatic disease and are you treating it with antibiotic therapy?

I have not done extensive research on it, but my lay suspicion is that the “fortressess” encasing bacterial colonies are called, “bio-films,” like the slimey matrix on top of a stagnant pond. It’s interesting to note that in studies done on childhood strep throat (another organism that Brown felt was implicated in rheumatic disease), it’s clear that strep is not resistant to penicillin, but that penicillin therapy often fails as a monotherapy, because strep manages to hide behind other organisms holed up in the throat. The whole alimentary canal is lined with mucosal tissue and naturally-occurring bio-film, so my guess is that what Dr. Brown was describing was this protective, slimey matrix. Bio-films are now pretty universally recognized in medicine as being one of the problems of persistence and “resistance” to abx (not just strep throat, but ear infections, urinary catheter infections, joint replacement sepsis, etc)….although it is not primary resistance by the actual organism (such as organisms that develop efflux pumps to literally pump out abx), but a mechanism – a protective barrier – behind which colonies of bugs are protected and hide out, conferring survival strategies upon one another.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/2006/1007-sick_of_strep_throat.htm

If you run searches on “bio-films,” you’ll find a good deal of information.

Integrative physicians are commonly using systemic enzymes (e.g. serrapeptase, nattokinase, boluoke) to help in breaking up bio-films and some pharmaceutical anti-microbials, such as the anti-parasitic tinidazole has been studied and shown effective again bio-film formation in Lyme, for instance:

http://www.dovepress.com/evaluation-of-in-vitro-antibiotic-susceptibility-of-different-morpholo-peer-reviewed-article-IDR

Best to you in your researches, John!

[Anonymous]

Thank you Maz for your reply.

No, I do not at this time have developed a rheumatic type disorder, but I recently have had an episode involving the tissues surrounding my right knee and lower leg that my Sister said was reminensent to the first of a series of events that have been diagnosed as alkalizing spondylitis.

Somehow in my search for alternative ways of managing my diabetes I had previously become aware of The Way Back Foundation so it was only natural the acquire ‘ the book ‘ and find out about this issue. I am finding a consistent pattern of researchers / healers that have been discredited, persecuted, and ignored by what I would call The Mainstream, including : Elmer Cranton ( Chelation Therapy ); Linus Pauling and company ( vitamin C therapy ), John W. Armstrong, healer; Weston Price ( dentist, nutritionists ) ; Dr. Berstaine, diabetes; and now most recently Dr. Thomas M. Brown . I wonder how long this list is. Some one ought to write a book about the healers that have been ignored.

That said, I started taking a course of Systemic, Proteolytic Enzymes about 3 weeks before a mysterious swelling occurred in my lower leg and knee area. Tissues around the knee became very red, but the knee joint was not painful. The affected knee was warm to the touch, and after a while I measured up to a 5.5 degree F. increase in temperature, as compared to my left knee. Pain, swelling and redness measurably decreased in response to oral, and then dermal doses of colloidal silver and oregano oil. I eventually to a 10 day course of antibiotics, but the medicine had no effect until I resumed topical treatments of oregano oil and silver. Seven weeks later I still have slight tenderness, and an area of skin just below the center of my knee has turned leathery. Doctor was unable to extract any fluid from my joint. X rays revealed no infection in joint itself. Doctors pretended they knew what they were doing, and guessed ( ‘ diagnosed ‘ ) I had a skin infection. I am taking these issues up with a new doctor come this November

I have to wonder if I had a healing crisis broth on by the exposure of micro organisms type colonies, that after their fibrin or biofilm barriers were removed, my own immune system could not suppress. I am proceeding to take a combination of the enzyme formula, and daily doses of dried and fresh ginger, caprilic acid ( its supposed to be good for biofilms ) and d Limonene oil. The idea is to bolster my immune response and see how a prolonged course of enzymes will effect my health.

Anyone with some thoughts ??

[SusanSD]

It’s been awhile since I read the biological studies but my recollection is that mycoplasma bacteria are considered cell-wall-deficient (CWD) bacteria and therefore they hide in the host’s “real” cells, so it’s difficult for them to be detected in biopsies as a foreign agent. If I am misunderstanding or someone has updated info, please share.

Therefore, these bacteria have the ultimate spot – they wreak havoc since they have the controls (imagine the battle scenes where the bad guys hijack the good guys’ tank/airplane/whatever and then can cause more damage because everyone things they’re a good guy).

If you look up CWD (spelled out) and autoimmune disorders or the disease you’re interested in, you may find more info.
Good luck,

Susan

[Maz]

@Susan(SD) wrote:

It’s been awhile since I read the biological studies but my recollection is that mycoplasma bacteria are considered cell-wall-deficient (CWD) bacteria and therefore they hide in the host’s “real” cells, so it’s difficult for them to be detected in biopsies as a foreign agent. If I am misunderstanding or someone has updated info, please share.

Hi Susan,

It’s synchronous you brought this up, because I had a wonderful opportunity to speak with researcher, Eva Sapi Phd, of New Haven Uni, this morning at the ILADs conference in Boston. She is very well known for her research in Lyme, but she has also researched mycoplasma very extensively. I asked her about whether or not mycoplasma could hole up in biofilm today (she presented on biofilms at the conference, which should be available soon in slide format, but also in live streaming format, if one signs up to watch the presentations now which will be available in early Dec sometime: http://www.ilads.org/lyme_programs/boston/program/program_sunday.php). She assured me that mycoplasma and any CWD intracellular organisms have the capacity for both building and living opportunistically within bio-film communities. Unfortunately, biofilms are produced naturally within the body, especially in mucosal tissues (alimentary canal, lungs, uro-gential tracts, ear canals, joint surfaces and, as recently discovered by Dr. F., an AP doc in AZ, the endothelial lining of blood vessels, etc) and mycoplasma have a propensity to live within and on all these tissues. Here is one recent study on mycoplasma pulmonis and biofilms, but there are others one can search:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2703428/

A number of Dr. Sapi’s doctoral students also gave poster presentations and one was very interesting – studies done on low dose doxycycline for borreliosis in-vitro was demonstrated to be less effective (red staining showing few spirochetes had died) and that these lower doses greatly enhanced borreliosis biofilm production. Biofilms are one method by which organisms evade anti-microbial attack and they manage it very successfully. It is generally agreed among LLMDs and conventional docs that more spirochetes are killed outright with high dose anti-microbials during their growth and reproductive phases. This research is salient for any Lyme patient to know, because the take-away message seems to be that low dose Lyme abx protocols (specifically doxy) will not successfully treat borreliosis.

One other method by which organisms manage to evade anti-microbial therapy is by having among their number, “persister” cells. These persister cells are genetically identical to the organism in question, but somehow manage to evade anti-microbial attack and remain untouched in a dormant or latent form until the threat has passed. This form of persistence, like bio-films, is not believed to be the result of anti-microbials and what many believe to be antibiotic resistance, because they have existed as long as the bugs themselves and will always revert to these evasion strategies when under any type of threat.

Other ways to avoid threat to their numbers are to change their outer surface proteins to evade immune system detection, to morph into different forms (cystic, granulocytic, bleb form, round bodied spheroplastic forms, CWDs, etc), have “efflux pumps” (to literally pump out anything toxic to themselves), etc. etc. Dr. Sapi spoke about borrelial biofilms here and touched on the fact that mycoplasma also hitched rides in ticks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmvgOfIN_8c

Biofilms were also described today by one LLMD as being living communities of many organisms all co-habiting for mutual benefit…much like we humans live in communities…and their strength is in their numbers within these communities. Bio-films produce channels through which they communicate with other bio-film communities (much as we used the www with which to communicate) and draw nutrition from their environment. Biofilms are like impenetrable fortresses built of polysaccharide matrices. Some LLMDs are using a combination of EDTA (via IV) and systemic enzymes to help break down these biofilms.

Another presenter at the conference from Germany, Dr. Armin Schwarzbach, has researched the connection between borrelia and chlamydia pneumoniae, and he has found that 80% of chronic Lyme patients are concomitantly chronically-infected with CPn. These bugs all thrive by working synergistically together in these biofilms and Dr. Sapi was certain that mycoplasma was no different. It seems that many of these physicians are no longer just believing that “autoimmune” patients are chronically infected with just mycoplasma, borreliosis, CPn or any other pathogenic bug, but that they are multiply coinfected and either calling it MSIDS (multi-systemic infectious diseases syndrome) or LBC (Lyme borreliosis complex).

Sorry to go on, but just wondered if you or others might find this interesting…for more info, would definitely recommend signing up to watch the ILADs presentations in streaming format, which will be available soon on Dec 1st and 2nd and you can listen to these amazing researchers discuss their findings:

http://ilads.org/ilads_media/boston-live-streaming/

Hope all is well with you and yours, Susan! 🙂

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