Minocycline with MTX

[rurumelb]

Hi,

I’ve lost my previous log in, but have had RA for about 7 years. I took Minocycline after my first child and went into remission very quickly in about 3 months. I fell pregnant with my second child and stopped the Minocycline immediately and then the RA symptoms returned in the second trimester. As soon as I delivered my second child I went straight back on the Minocycline, only we moved country and I had no idea I was taking the generic brand for the past 16 months. My lab results have improved but I am still in an enormous amount of pain in my hips. My rheumy advised me to add MTX to my regime so I’ve been taking 5mg for the past few weeks, but I’m wondering if anyone can share their experiences combining these two medications and should I talk to my rheumy about upping the dose of MTX with the Minocycline, if it is safe? I’m devastated that I wasted so much time on the generic brand of Minocycline (akamin) and have now switched to (Aspen). I’m really hoping that switching brands will send me into remission.

[Karel]

Hi Rurumelb.
I have combined the mino (Teva) with MTX several times.
I started off with MTX alone, and although it gave me 20% relief within months that started to drop. I don’t think 5 mg will do much. I was on 20mg a week and most people I speak to, who are on mtx, are somewhere between 10 and 20mg. I order to protect my gut I started right away with injections. Pretty simple when you know how to do it. I believe it is slightly more effective as the pills. MTX can take at least 6 weeks to become noticable effective, but if it doesnt really work, such as in my case (only 20% effective), that period is hard to define. I also noticed that there was some kind of cycle through the week with being tired, 20% relief and slight increase of pain again at the end of the week. Unfortenately, when you start combining meds, and they take long to become effective, and might only partly effective, it might be very difficult to distinguish what really contributes to a possible improvement. So I decided to stop mtx again. MTX stays in the system for a good 6 to 8 weeks has been my experience. So any improvements after stopping MTX might still be contributable partly to MTX. I see you are on the high side for the mino and for the low side of the mtx. You may want to swap that around and see how effective teh MTX really is for 6 weeks. My liver is ok on MTX but blood platelets are effected and MTX makes me very tired and exhausted. So for now its not the drug for me. In the 4 monhs of Mino, i have seen a slight improvement in the big joints which were really very slightly effected and a deterioration of the fingers and toes. Thats why I added the MTX again.Doing all kinds of other ABX now for possible lyme, still unsuccesfull. At least you know that Mino has been successfull for you in the past.
I say: trial and error. Success

[rurumelb]

Thanks very much for the detailed response, I will try talk to my rheumy about getting on a higher dose of MTX and maybe swapping to injections too. At the moment, it’s only my knees and hips that are giving me the most trouble, all other joints have pretty much stopped hurting and crp has gone down considerably since I started AP, but the pain in my hips just seems to be getting worse, despite my lab results getting better. I’m just very confused, I wish I had a rheumy that had experience with AP. If anyone can recommend one in Melb that they have used I would be so grateful. Thanks a lot.

[lynnie_sydney]

I’m just very confused, I wish I had a rheumy that had experience with AP. If anyone can recommend one in Melb that they have used I would be so grateful. Thanks a lot.

Have you read The New Arthritis Breakthrough book as recommended? If no, it may really help. It also covers why most doctors who prescribe AP are NOT rheumies. Personally, I gave up on rheumies about 20 years ago because they (almost all) come from a different paradigm to me – in that they don’t believe in infectious theory and will only treat symptoms because ’cause’ is unknown (idiopathic). However, we each have to make our own decisions on this.

If you’d like a listing of AP Doctors in Victoria, Australia you can request one:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=54

And, according to Dr Trentham (well known MD at Harvard Medical School who ran the famous Harvard Study on mino) minocycline can be combined with ANY DMARD – see extract below and link to whole article on main site:

Clearly minocycline can provide adjunctive therapy for RA. In other words, minocycline
can be combined with any other available agent. There are no exceptions! Examples
include Plaquenil, methotrexate, Arava, anti-TNF compounds like Enbrel & Humira
and the new intravenous drug, abetacept (Orencia).

https://www.roadback.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/education.display/display_id/508.html

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[rurumelb]

Thanks for the reply. I have not read that book but I have read, “The Infection Connection” By Dr Katherine Poehlmann, I should probably read it again. Is it safe for me to take 20 mg of MTX per week with 200 mg of Minocycline daily? Sorry, I know I shouldn’t ask for medical advice but would just like to know if others have tried that. I haven’t been able to find much literature about the two combined in my searches.

[PhilC]

Hi Karel,
@Karel wrote:

My liver is ok on MTX but blood platelets are effected and MTX makes me very tired and exhausted. So for now its not the drug for me.

Are you taking folate? Many people taking methotrexate are also taking a large dose of folate to help prevent some of the drug’s side effects.

@Karel wrote:

Doing all kinds of other ABX now for possible lyme, still unsuccesfull.

What other antibiotics have you been taking?

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[rurumelb]

Does anyone have experience with AP working in the hip joints following cortisone shots? My lab results are improving but my hips are constantly inflamed and feel awful, I just feel like the Minocycline is reaching other joints but not my hips. I have booked to have each hip injected with cortisone on the 23rd and 24th.

[Karel]

Phil, Thanks for responding.

Yes, while on mtx I was taking folic acid prescription.

For good month now on Rocephin 3 per week IV, weekends Flagyl, with plaquenil for autoimmune/cyst. And minocyline (100 mg a day)for intracellular ma-fri. Had a short stint of Grapefruit Seed Extract (non prescribtion). Currently already 8 weeks of the MTX. While I saw a slight very temporary improvement initially, that has all gone now and pain levels are up. I know its much but we try to provoke a change in antibodies against the lyme. My arthritis is definitely more RA like than Lyme like. all RA bloodwork still negative.
I am seriously considering adding a biological if the upcoming test show no more lyme indication. Somehow the inflammation just wont stop (mainly fingers and toes) and I don’t want damage. I have a clean diet take, fish oil, ALA and NAC in addition milk thistle and various supplements and probiotics and take sauna’s as well.

Advise is welcome!

[PhilC]

Hi Karel,
@Karel wrote:

Currently already 8 weeks of the MTX. While I saw a slight very temporary improvement initially, that has all gone now and pain levels are up. I know its much but we try to provoke a change in antibodies against the lyme. My arthritis is definitely more RA like than Lyme like. all RA bloodwork still negative.
I am seriously considering adding a biological if the upcoming test show no more lyme indication. Somehow the inflammation just wont stop (mainly fingers and toes) and I don’t want damage.

If the MTX isn’t working very well, why not try an NSAID? Dr. Brown did not use antibiotics alone. He also used NSAIDs like aspirin, ibuprofen, etc., and even low doses of corticosteroids like prednisone.

Have you tried eliminating all nightshade vegetables from your diet?
See: The “No Nightshades” Diet

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[Karel]

Phil, Yes I have had a main struggle with the idea of NSAID’s despite both apparent effects of pain reduction and possible improvement of ABX penetration, if I understood that well. Since my focus had been for years, before my first RA symptoms, on intestinal problems (which finally showed some parasites and later leaky gut positive tests), I have been very reluctant to use NSAIDS. I tried some in the beginning (over the counter) and there was no noticeable effect. At that time enough reason to leave it alone. I am using now curcumin products, but I am not sure if it helps. But you make me think again…

I felt in the past a bit weird after eating bell peppers and eggplant, but cayenne and tomato seems to be all right. I have tried in the past to cut them all out but it had little overall effect, I belief. But you inspired me to test it again. None of my numerous food test was ever positive for delayed night shade plant sensitivity. For me sulphites are a big thing and I haven’t touch any prepared seafood or wine for that reason since I found out.

Thanks for your ideas! Will let you know.
K

[Anonymous]

@Karel wrote:

Phil, Yes I have had a main struggle with the idea of NSAID’s despite both apparent effects of pain reduction and possible improvement of ABX penetration, if I understood that well. Since my focus had been for years, before my first RA symptoms, on intestinal problems (which finally showed some parasites and later leaky gut positive tests), I have been very reluctant to use NSAIDS. I tried some in the beginning (over the counter) and there was no noticeable effect. At that time enough reason to leave it alone. I am using now curcumin products, but I am not sure if it helps. But you make me think again…

K

Hi Karel,

Can you please let me know which leaky gut test you used..Many thanks..Nuket

[Karel]

Nuket, I ordered a Genova Intestinal Permeability test via labtestingdirect.com, but they seems to have changed their name recently. This is the link :

http://www.yourwaytowellness.com/Genova-Diagnostics-Intestinal-Permeability-Assessm-p/gd5006.htm

The urine test is based on lactulose and manitol absorption. I believe this (the only) a well validated test. The subject is controversial, but more and more conventional doctors are starting to understand the concept. No need for a doctor by ordering via the internet and the results come with an explanation. There are other providers as well on the internet who provide the same test from same/different lab.

Good luck

[Author]

Posts