Methotrexate Damage control

[Pilgrimage]

Hi all, I would like to ask if anyone here that is using Methotrexate along with AP, that is/was receiving Damage from your Disease, How is it working? I know we are all different, and Meds affect us all differently.. I am asking because nothing has been working well this time around, and I am considering Methotrexate + AP possibly Prednisone..
Thank’s Much.

Pilgrimage

[Aunt Tidy]

I have been on Methotrexate and was currently put on Amoxicillin by my Dentist for dental abcess. When I called the pharmacist to see if what I was experiencing could be a drug interaction, he said that Methotrexate can inhibit the working of an antibiotic and suggested that I discontinue my Methotrexate until I was finished with the Amoxicillin in order to facilitate success with the Amoxicillin. That’s what I’m doing. I don’t know if the same would apply to your AP or not…

[maz.aust]

The use of mtx with AP had been very successful for a lot of people, it is entirely up to you !!

Wishing you the best of luck with whatever you choose to do 😉

ps – I am actually allergic to pred so can’t take it even if I wanted to…lol

I have some strange out there allergies, eggs, pred, latex (developed a few years ago) and now mtx & arava — yep we are all different

Dec07: Diagnosed PRA, (CTD; Fibromyalgia; suspected Lyme):
Mar08: Diet to heal gut/bolster immune system (no gluten, dairy, sulphites or sugar)

Jan 2018: ABX Mon/Wed/Fri (started AP 2008)
1/2 x 150mg Roxithromycin(Biasig), 1/2 x 150mg Clarithromycin (Klacid),
1/2 x Fungillin, 1 x 250mg Cephalexin (Keflex)

All off days Probiotics

[vinny]

I use 7.5mg weekly Methotrexate, 2.5mg daily Prednisone and vary the amount of Minocycline I use. It appears that tamping down my immune system with MTX and prednisone makes the Minocycline more effective. 2008 until 2011 I could control my pain using just Minocycline, but became less effective and my pain was unacceptable in 2012.

Psoriatic Arthritis: 100mg Minoz Minocycline TABLET daily; twice daily 400mg Pentoxifylline;125mcg Levotyroxine: Have been using some level of Minocycline since 2008

[Maz]

@Pilgrimage wrote:

Hi all, I would like to ask if anyone here that is using Methotrexate along with AP, that is/was receiving Damage from your Disease, How is it working? I know we are all different, and Meds affect us all differently.. I am asking because nothing has been working well this time around, and I am considering Methotrexate + AP possibly Prednisone..
Thank’s Much.

Pilgrimage

Hi Pilgrimage,

I was just looking back at your first posting and you said the following in response to Lynnie’s question about whether or not you had stopped mino while in remission,

After I was told I was in “Remission” I went on a maintenance dose, 100mg Monday,Wednesday and Friday, All was going very well, until I had Teeth pulled in the winter of 2013, I then had a Flare up that lasted 3-4 months, since then it seems that the RA has been gaining ground on me.. I restarted a normal dose of Mino 100mgs daily, the disease seems different this time, but somehow the same.
Right now I am on Clindamycin 300mgs x 2 times a day, doing Lemons Detoxing, taking Milk Thistle,Probiotic(PB8) I am trying to do all the things I did last time, I was at the Dr’s on Thursday of last week, having blood drawn to run the regular tests, I have not heard back from Dr’s office. I had ask my Dr about MTX and Prednisone, as I am getting damage to my hands and other parts of my body..

Just to make sure I’m reading this right….you were on a low maintenance dose of mino when you had reached remission on it, but, after your dental work, you increased your dose back up to daily, then added clindamycin daily at the above dose? Can you share how long it’s been since you (a) increased your mino dose back to daily and (b) when you added the clindamycin? Also, do you have any recent lab results?

It’s not unusual for folks to get flares on the heels of dental work. I get a mini flare every time I get my teeth cleaned. Thing is, it’s possible you’re dealing with herxing right now due to the protocol changes. It’s quite a hefty dose of clindamycin, which may be needed for any infection in the gums, but it would help to also know how long you’ve been on this daily dose. An IV of clindamycin is usually 900 or 1200mg and there are 2 IVs a day for 5 days and then the series ends. RA patients will then sometimes also supplement their regular mino with oral clindamycin 600mg x 2 on one day of the week only (if indicated) if regular IVs aren’t accessible. If you’re just on a short course for a tooth infection (e.g. 10 days) this is different and needed, of course. However, if you’ve been taking 600mg oral clindamycin daily on a regular basis, as part of your protocol, this could be a bit too high of a dose, causing quite a bit of die-off.

Are you able to work with an experienced AP doc, pilgrimage? If not, would you like the contact info of Dr. S. in Iowa who is very kind to freely answer patient and local doc questions about the treatment?

I have always wondered about Lyme disease, We live in the Ozarks of Northern Arkansas and get bitten by Ticks usually every year.

Ticks pass a number of different infections in addition to Lyme disease and sometimes a person’s pathogen load is heavy when there have been numerous tick bites and the immune system can hold things for a while, but then becomes overwhelmed. Something simple, like getting a tooth removed, releasing infection into the blood stream (where it’s been walled off in the gums) can tip the balance of the existing pathogen load and set things off. In other words, it might not be an either/or situation….either a tooth infection or tickborne infection(s), but one event acting as a tripwire. It’s also possible the low maintenance dose was keeping things pushed back, but wasn’t quite enough if there is some type of tickborne infection going on.

If you think tick-borne infections might be an issue for you, pilgrimage, suggest you connect with the Arkansas Lyme advocacy group. We don’t currently have any Lyme doc listings for your state, but they may have some listed that we haven’t yet heard about. Happy to talk more about this, if you need any insights to pursue this angle.

http://www.lymenet.org/SupportGroups/UnitedStates/Arkansas/FairfieldBay.shtml

And, yes, methotrexate can safely be used alongside tetracyclines as long as the person doesn’t have any contraindications for use of the drug (e.g. heart, liver or lung problems). O’Dell did a study on the efficacy of the combo of doxycycline with methotrexate. Some folks will do this in order to regain control of their disease symptoms and will later slowly taper off the mtx when things have stabilized again.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=o’dell+methotrexate+doxycycline

[Pilgrimage]

@maz.aust wrote:

The use of mtx with AP had been very successful for a lot of people, it is entirely up to you !!

Wishing you the best of luck with whatever you choose to do 😉

ps – I am actually allergic to pred so can’t take it even if I wanted to…lol

I have some strange out there allergies, eggs, pred, latex (developed a few years ago) and now mtx & arava — yep we are all different

Hi maz.aust, I ended up having to beg my GP for prednisone, she wanted me to take 10mgs x 2 a day, then she said to just take 10 mgs a day, I took the pred and cut it into quarters, then eights, it was a welcome reliefe. Thank’s for your response 😀
Pilgrimage

[Pilgrimage]

@Maz wrote:

@Pilgrimage wrote:

Hi all, I would like to ask if anyone here that is using Methotrexate along with AP, that is/was receiving Damage from your Disease, How is it working? I know we are all different, and Meds affect us all differently.. I am asking because nothing has been working well this time around, and I am considering Methotrexate + AP possibly Prednisone..
Thank’s Much.

Pilgrimage

Hi Pilgrimage,

I was just looking back at your first posting and you said the following in response to Lynnie’s question about whether or not you had stopped mino while in remission,

After I was told I was in “Remission” I went on a maintenance dose, 100mg Monday,Wednesday and Friday, All was going very well, until I had Teeth pulled in the winter of 2013, I then had a Flare up that lasted 3-4 months, since then it seems that the RA has been gaining ground on me.. I restarted a normal dose of Mino 100mgs daily, the disease seems different this time, but somehow the same.
Right now I am on Clindamycin 300mgs x 2 times a day, doing Lemons Detoxing, taking Milk Thistle,Probiotic(PB8) I am trying to do all the things I did last time, I was at the Dr’s on Thursday of last week, having blood drawn to run the regular tests, I have not heard back from Dr’s office. I had ask my Dr about MTX and Prednisone, as I am getting damage to my hands and other parts of my body..

Just to make sure I’m reading this right….you were on a low maintenance dose of mino when you had reached remission on it, but, after your dental work, you increased your dose back up to daily, then added clindamycin daily at the above dose? Can you share how long it’s been since you (a) increased your mino dose back to daily and (b) when you added the clindamycin? Also, do you have any recent lab results?

It’s not unusual for folks to get flares on the heels of dental work. I get a mini flare every time I get my teeth cleaned. Thing is, it’s possible you’re dealing with herxing right now due to the protocol changes. It’s quite a hefty dose of clindamycin, which may be needed for any infection.

Are you able to work with an experienced AP doc, pilgrimage? If not, would you like the contact info of Dr. S. in Iowa who is very kind to freely answer patient and local doc questions about the treatment?

I have always wondered about Lyme disease, We live in the Ozarks of Northern Arkansas and get bitten by Ticks usually every year.

Ticks pass a number of different infections in addition to Lyme disease and sometimes a person’s pathogen load is heavy when there have been numerous tick bites and the immune system can hold things for a while, but then becomes overwhelmed. Something simple, like getting a tooth removed, releasing infection into the blood stream (where it’s been walled off in the gums) can tip the balance of the existing pathogen load and set things off. In other words, it might not be an either/or situation….either a tooth infection or tickborne infection(s), but one event acting as a tripwire. It’s also possible the low maintenance dose was keeping things pushed back, but wasn’t quite enough if there is some type of tickborne infection going on.

If you think tick-borne infections might be an issue for you, pilgrimage, suggest you connect with the Arkansas Lyme advocacy group. We don’t currently have any Lyme doc listings for your state, but they may have some listed that we haven’t yet heard about. Happy to talk more about this, if you need any insights to pursue this angle.

http://www.lymenet.org/SupportGroups/UnitedStates/Arkansas/FairfieldBay.shtml

And, yes, methotrexate can safely be used alongside tetracyclines as long as the person doesn’t have any contraindications for use of the drug (e.g. heart, liver or lung problems). O’Dell did a study on the efficacy of the combo of doxycycline with methotrexate. Some folks will do this in order to regain control of their disease symptoms and will later slowly taper off the mtx when things have stabilized again.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=o’dell+methotrexate+doxycycline

Hello Maz, I was on 100 mgs a day mino, my numbers kept getting better and better, when I had my numbers under 100 I went to 100 mgs 3 days a week I think that was a mistake ❓
I started the Clindamycin in the fall of 2013 after some major dental work. The 300mgs x 2 a day was helping more than the mino was..I dont have an AP DR but would love to find one 😀 I have decided against the MTX and just stick with prednisone and clindy, I was alternating 6 weeks on clindy, then 6 weeks on mino, I actually felt better on the clindy.
Thank’s so much for the response much appreciated

Pilgrimage

[Robert]

hi as Maz stated methotrexate is ok for some people ,,however it can certainly kill you have no doubt about that,,,in my case it wiped out 60% of my lungs and no one told me this could happen with that drug, anyway i survived by the skin of my teeth after 3 weeks in hospital ,,one week in critical care and another in intensive care ,,also i never had any problems with my lungs at any time,thats what i dont like about doctors they tell you nothing about the drugs they hand out to you,anyway its your choice pilgramage,,

[Pilgrimage]

Hi Robert, sorry to hear about what Methotrexate did to you, I have decided Not take Methotrexate, and continue my pursuit of Antibiotics for my RA. Thanks for your response.

Pilgrimage

[Author]

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