Mercola AP Protocol for RA – Interesting info

[Rosemary Perth Aust.]

I agree with you Jo about the  allergies.  probably not just from Mycoplasma though all the bacteria causing it.  I have lost a lot of my allergy problems on the combo abx treatment which does not surprise me.

[Susan LymeRA]

Me too, Rosemary!

1996 I was diagnosed allergic to dust, mold & mildew, both indoor and out and mild asthma.  I never would do the steriods, not even back then when I was healthy, but I did try the inhalers and the nasal sprays to no avail. 

I discovered an herbal combo that worked wonders called ALJ by Nature's Sunshine.  I took it for 2 solid years.  I was afraid to quit.   I finally did quit and the symptoms never came back.

This year I was retested and I have no allergies and no asthma.  I am certain it is all I have done to heal from RA.

BTW, regarding the symptom argument…..I throw my hat in the arena that no symptoms is a really good thing.  I'm symptom free most of the time and am just waiting for bloodwork to agree.  It is my understanding that most AP doctors do not bother with tests.  They go strictly by symptoms and clinical exam. 

And to defend the ridiculously commercial Dr Mercola, who really does posts great research and articles, I just read an article of his today regarding RA and he does still believe in and use AP along with diet and EFT.  I know he tried to get away from AP at one time but seems to have kept it in his program. 

I used EFT with a practitioner to deal with an overwhelming fear I developed that this disease would return.  I felt the fear of the disease was having a negative impact on me.  It worked wonders for me and did so in just 2 sessions.  So far, the fear has not returned.  It has been 3 mths.  That isn't much time, but before EFT, I was having nightmares about waking up crippled again.   Now, I don't think about it.

I have been clearing numerous bacteria and toxins including mycoplasmas.  AP has been one tool among many.  Including Enbrel.  I have to defend Joe M a moment.  There is some really good press about the biologics not only stopping the disease but reversing damage.  I have only been taking Enbrel 5 or 6 mths and was not experiencing pain at the time the doctor convinced me to take it.  She was going to put me on stronger medicine to kill the parasites and bacteria and I was just too reactive to the die off.  So I use the Enbrel.  She estimates 6 more months tops.  She also has me on multiple detoxing meds, herbs, glutathione. 

Remember, Dr Brown died before biologics came out. 

We practice a little killing and a lot of detox.  I continue to enjoy a normal life mostly painfree. 

Susan

[Jo]

[user=86]Susan Lyme/RA[/user] wrote:

BTW, regarding the symptom argument…..I throw my hat in the arena that no symptoms is a really good thing.  I'm symptom free most of the time and am just waiting for bloodwork to agree.  It is my understanding that most AP doctors do not bother with tests.  They go strictly by symptoms and clinical exam.  

 There is some really good press about the biologics not only stopping the disease but reversing damage.  I have only been taking Enbrel 5 or 6 mths and was not experiencing pain at the time the doctor convinced me to take it.  She was going to put me on stronger medicine to kill the parasites and bacteria and I was just too reactive to the die off.  So I use the Enbrel.  She estimates 6 more months tops.  . 

Susan

I agree that no symptoms is a very good thing.  But for me, remission means no more diet restrictions, no more MSM, no more medications or supplements of any kind.  If any of those things are needed, then to me that's controlled, not remission.

Heck, MSM alone clears the symptoms of RA, and a lot more.  But it's not a remission unelss one can go off of it and still be symptom free.  When you add that to the belief in the infectious cause of these diseases, then remission has to include control of the bacteria as well.  

Maybe inflamation remission, instead of disease remission.

For those like me who believe in the infectious cause, disease remission means control of the bacteria, not just the inflammation reaction to the bacteria.

I like the way that you are using the Enbrel, a short term tool while you work on getting rid of the cause.  I agree with you that it's totally posible that Dr Brown would have used all the tools available in the short term that would enable the abx to work.  Does anyone know if he used Gold or any of the other treatments of that time to control inflammation while the abx killed the mycoplamsa?

Unfortunately I can't believe any of the reports, because they do not correlate with my personal direct experience with Mr Perfect.  There are plenty of law suits and fines that show that these types of research and reports can be specifically created to prove a point, with all negative feed back cleansed. 

Take MSM as an example, there are dozens of reports that prove it doesn't work, created by using tiny doses, which of course really don't work.  All the reports that prove it works, use the mega doses.  Since we use the mega doses and have personal experience that it works, I can simply read how the reports were set up and recognize the prejudice behind it, and know what it's results will “prove” in advance.  I believe all tests and resports are geared towards the prejudice they are designed to prove or disprove.  

Though I do have experience with the body healing the damage, Mino/MSM is doing that for Mr Perfect too.  I'm trying real hard not to jinx it by thinking that ALL the damage will be repaired and he'll be as good as new…. but I can't stop hoping.

Jo

 

[Susan LymeRA]

[user=465]Jo[/user] wrote:

Though I do have experience with the body healing the damage, Mino/MSM is doing that for Mr Perfect too.  I'm trying real hard not to jinx it by thinking that ALL the damage will be repaired and he'll be as good as new…. but I can't stop hoping.

Yes, never stop hoping.

My doctor says I am “very doable” and the day is coming I will just live normally again.  But I have to tell you, I know some defects about me now and these defects explain a few things about me like why I got strep throat, tonsilitis, bronchitis and sinunitis every year of my youth and in my twenties I developed allergies and asthma and at 30, a mild case of Graves disease and at 40 my first bout with Lyme disease and 49,  Lyme/RA.  As a teenager, I could only do so many Big Macs and Pizzas before I would crawl home doubled over in the bathroom with cramps, begging Mom to cook me some vegetables.  Amazingly, I did not have Celiac disease.  I had a very poor ability to produce glutathione and without it, I could not detoxify bad food.  This lack of glutathione also made me susceptable to every bacteria I came in contact with.  Too bad the gene test was not run on me at birth.  Could have saved me a lot of antibiotics.

I plan to take glutathione the rest of my life.  Also, since glutathione is so very necessary to our ability to detoxify, I will also take extra precautions to avoid toxic food, cleaning products, artificial make up, hair dyes (I use a natural one) pesticides, herbicides, suntan lotions, etc and medications to the best of my ability.  I can't avoid the bacteria though.  It is everywhere and I do so love the outdoors.

It is absolutely amazing what a little vinegar water and baking soda will clean and better than a lot of stuff on the market too.

By taking these precautions, it is my hope to remain in remission until the day I die.

Good to know about the MSM.

Susan

[richie]

Hi
Isnt disease comprised of symptoms —no symptoms –no disease –especially in light of the fact that 51% of the general population will test positive for mycoplasma –also how do you explain the fact that app.49% of folks with RA do not test positive for mycoplasma —I think Mercola's  definition and equation is right on —
richie

[Susan LymeRA]

Nope.  Disease has to have a source and symptoms are not a source.  They aren't the cause of the disease but rather the result.  If you just treat symptoms, the disease continues.  But if you remove the source, the symptoms will also leave.

Yes most people have mycoplasmas just as it is estimated that most people have lyme but they don't have lyme disease.  According to Quest Laboratories and Labcorp, <.90 mycoplasma is normal.  I tested positive >5 for 1 yr.  My doctor runs labs about every 3rd month.  In Aug, I finally got on the chart at 358 mycoplasma.  I am awaiting results from blood drawn 12/1 and I am really hoping to see the number even lower.  I'm sure I have had mycoplasmas most of my life.  It just took 49 yrs for them to take me over.

It is hard to get a positive test for mycoplasmas and lyme but that does not mean you do not have it.  These cell wall deficient bacteria quickly leave the blood and live in tissues and bone and joints.  It is pretty amazing that I consistently test positive. 

Toxicity is the main cause of my symptoms, but bugs, drugs and environment coupled with a defective detoxification system are the cause of the toxicity and my auto-immune state.  Detoxifying me keeps me out of pain, but I will just keep getting toxic overload unless we remove the sources of the toxins.

I didn't buy the “immune system run amuck” theory when my doctor first diagnosed me and told me “he didn't know what causes it and he didn't know how to cure it, but he could slow it down”. 

30 days later when I met with him again and I was so excited with the infectious theory.  Based on my history, I was sure infections were the source of my RA.  Needless to say, I placed NO WEIGHT in his opinion when he yelled at me for doing something so foolish.  After all, he had already admitted he didn't know anything.

What makes me mad is that he refused my request to test me for these bacterias.  I think that is criminal.  What would it have hurt him to prove me wrong?  Oh yeah…. He ran the risk of me proving him wrong.

 

 

[lynnie_sydney]

Here is ACR's definition of Clinical Remission and Functionality in RA patients. Lynnie

ACR Classification Criteria for Determining Clinical Remission in Rheumatoid Arthritis

5 or more of the following present at least two consecutive months:

a. Morning stiffness < 15 minutes
b. No fatigue
c. No joint pain
d. No joint tenderness or pain on motion
e. No soft tissue swelling in joints or tendon sheaths
f. ESR (Westergren method) < 30 mm/hour for a female or 20 mm/hour for a male

Exclusions: Clinical manifestations of active vasculitis, pericarditis, pleuritis or myositis, and unexplained recent weight loss or fever attributable to rheumatoid arthritis will prohibit a designation of complete clinical remission.

Reference: Pinals RS, et.al.: Arthritis Rheum 24:1308, 1981.

 ACR Classification Criteria of Functional Status in Rheumatoid Arthritis

Class I:
Completely able to perform usual activities of daily living (self-care, vocational, and avocational)*

Class II:
Able to perform usual self-care and vocational activities, but limited in avocational activities

Class III:
Able to perform usual self-care activities, but limited in vocational and avocational activities

Class IV:
Limited ability to perform usual self-care, vocational, and avocational activities

 *Self-care activities include dressing, feeding, bathing, grooming, and toileting. Avocational (recreational and/or leisure) and vocational (work, school, homemaking) activities are patient-desired and age- and sex-specific.

Reference: Hochberg MC, et.al.: Arthritis Rheum 35:498, 1992. 

 

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[Jo]

[user=30]lynnie_sydney[/user] wrote:

Here is ACR's definition of Clinical Remission and Functionality in RA patients. Lynnie

ACR Classification Criteria for Determining Clinical Remission in Rheumatoid Arthritis 

 ACR Classification Criteria of Functional Status in Rheumatoid Arthritis 

Reference: Hochberg MC, et.al.: Arthritis Rheum 35:498, 1992. 

How seriously are we supposed to take a definaition that doesn't even acknowledge the mycoplasma???

It seems strange for a board that professes a treatment based on an infectious disease theory, to use definitions based on a refusal to acknowledge the infectious disease theory ?

Is there any medical references that list anything that includes a remission of the bacteria/mycoplasma in it's considerations?   That one, I might take seriously. 

Even though the tests are not very good, a teeny weeny nod in their direction & and acknowledgement that the mycoplasma exists, even if the tests aren't good enough to show it yet, would be necessary for me.

Jo

P.S.

By these inferior definitions my Mr Perfect was already class I functional and in complete remission just using MSM – without the nasty biologicals they push – but we don't agree, if the cause isn't dealt with, it's simply controlled in my view. That is why we are using the AP in the first place. 

[Susan LymeRA]

Jo,

Who says the tests aren't any good?  I get a positive result each time.

[Jo]

[user=86]Susan Lyme/RA[/user] wrote:

Jo,

Who says the tests aren't any good?  I get a positive result each time.

So does my Mr Perfect.  But I had read a research report comparing the various available tests, using 100 children who were in the hospital for bacteria related infections.  

I posted it on another thread – PCR did best with a mere 50 something % … apparently there are two Eliza tests ( I know I didn't spell that correctly) one of them had less than 20% accuracy.  

So, I meant that even those people who are testing negative might not really be negative, the tests aren't 100% yet.   Though some lucky people, like my Mr Perfect and you, do show positive- which forces the insurance companies to pay for the abx treatment.

Jo

[Susan LymeRA]

Ok.  Now I get it.

Thanks

[Author]

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