Just so I know: what’s up with vitamin D?

[June3443]

Thanks, Lynne. My doctor suggested I take 4000 to 6000 units daily. I haven’t had my d levels checked but will do so n May. I had tried everything for my muscle spasms. I drank Gatorade everyday, took potassium pills, magnesium. After I started taking the D3, my muscle spasms stopped. I assumed it was because of the d3.

My older brother who has CREST takes a daily and a monthly d3.

[PhilC]

Hi Lynne,
@Lynne G./SD wrote:

Forgot to mention that the normal ratio of D3 to D1,25 should be 1.1 and I am at 2.9.Very bad.

What is the source of your info? The reason I ask is that the idea there is a “normal ratio” of 25-D to 1,25-D seems questionable at best. That being the case, I have a pretty good idea of the likely source of this notion, but I’d rather know for sure instead of making assumptions.

As for your ratio of 2.9, you do realize that it is meaningless without the actual test results, right? Although a high ratio could be caused by a high level of 1,25-D, it could also be caused by a low level of 25-D. It’s just simple math. Of course, it’s entirely possible that I am missing something, so feel free to correct me if that’s the case.

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[Lynne G.SD]

Hi Phil;
This is from my doctor who does not do MP.Calculation is in metric

[enzed]

The doctor who correctly diagnosed my SD almost 4 years ago, told me before my test results came back, that all patients with SD had a Vit D deficiency. He tested my levels and they were very low. I took a D supplement daily for a year before my levels went into the normal range. Now I take 1 Vit D tablet a week, to ensure I stay in the normal range. I do still get muscle spasms sometimes, (they used to be severe) so will ensure I maintain a Vit D dose.

[PhilC]

Hi Lynne,
@Lynne G./SD wrote:

Hi Phil;
This is from my doctor who does not do MP.Calculation is in metric

It would be helpful if you could get a reference or two from your doctor regarding that 1.1 ratio. Also, I am curious about the results of your vitamin D tests (the actual numbers and units).

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[Lynne G.SD]

Hi Phil;
I am seeing her in July,let you know as soon as I find out.

[A Friend]

@PhilC wrote:

Hi Lynne,
@Lynne G./SD wrote:

Low D3 or 25 is usually not the cause of disease but results from it as it turns into 1,25 too quickly.

Since that is something that cannot be easily proven, it is really little more than Dr. Trevor Marshall’s opinion. We know that vitamin D is important for the health of the immune system, so it doesn’t seem far-fetched at all that a deficiency of vitamin D might increase one’s susceptibility to certain diseases.

A lot of the information that is in circulation is nothing more than unproven conjecture. Some scientist or medical doctor speculates on how things might be, and before long people are passing it around and treating it as fact. Speculation certainly has its place within science, but we need to be careful not to allow ourselves to be misled by unproven conjecture being paraded around as fact.
Phil

The information I’m about to share here may be helpful for you interested in Vitamin D3 to know about. Let me add that I followed the MP work for several years, but related to my own numbers and health history, it remained a puzzle I couldn’t figure out. Phil, if you or any of the others have any comments on my problem discussed below, they will be welcomed.

I’ve been aware that my 1,25 OH D levels were very low (under 10) for a number of years now. Both Dr. K and my local PCP (for whom I have much respect) discussed this with me for a year or two. I had been reading on MP, and was confused between the two views (MP and theirs) — whether I should supplement or not supplement. Since my doctors were concerned, I began a D3 1000. At the time I began, I was feeling very well (a bit like Mary Poppins). Within a very short time, I began feeling unwell, and decided this turn-around was not acceptable and stopped it. At my next annual checkup with Dr. K, she asked me if I were taking the Vit D3, and I told her about my starting and then stopping. She thought a second, and said she thought I was probably reacting to the source of the D3 being from soy; and she suggested I try the Metagenics brand, and I did, D3 1,000 i.u.. Taking this one was uneventful, and I had been taking it for a year or two.

Several months ago, my PCP had me come in for fasting labs for my annual checkup. All of my labs were quite good, and the D3 was up in the 30s. My PCP said it still needed to be higher… and suggested I add a D3 5,000 i.u., which I did and ordered it. (On hindsight, since I’d had problems with the first D3 product I had used, I should have ordered the new D3 5,000 i.u. from Metagenics.)

After I had been taking the 5,000 for 2 or 3 weeks, I began having some urgency and diarrhea; and decided I needed to leave off the Vitamin C (but I’d not been having problems with it before the Vit D3 5,000). It didn’t get better, and may have gotten worse; so on my own I stopped both D and C. But the urgency and diarrhea have not gone away. Just the past week, I began doing searches to see if this has been a common problem for some people. I found quite a number of links on this subject. I am posting the following (which covers a good range of information on this subject) just in case anyone else develops this problem or is interested in it. (Let me add, that along with this volatile condition, I also began developing some spasms in my feet and lower legs, probably because of lost minerals, etc. from the frequent diarrhea. I keep thinking it will subside. I hope so anyway. My local PCP told me to discontinue it also. I haven’t queried Metagenics on this subject, but the idea just came to me I need to do that, since when I was taking their product, I had no reactions of any kind. I feel like a dummie: Since I’d felt bad with the first D3 I tried, I should have made sure the new 5000 was the same type that had not caused me problems.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/vitamin-d3-side-effects.html
Vitamin D3 Side Effects
Nausea, vomiting, constipation and diarrhea are some of the side effects of taking vitamin D3 supplements.

(A bit of good news: I also want to share with you that on my recent annual tests my HDL, the “good” cholesterol, had always been quite high, usually about 80 to 90. He and I both were amazed to see it was 146 on this latest lab report. Had never heard of one being that high. I think this had to be related to the supplementation of high-dose Vitamin C as both Sodium Ascorbate and Calcium Ascorbate mixed in a drink. Basically, all my other test results were very good, and about what they were the year before.)

[Anonymous]

@A Friend wrote:

After I had been taking the 5,000 for 2 or 3 weeks, I began having some urgency and diarrhea; and decided I needed to leave off the Vitamin C (but I’d not been having problems with it before the Vit D3 5,000). It didn’t get better, and may have gotten worse; so on my own I stopped both D and C. But the urgency and diarrhea have not gone away.

Or maybe there’s something else. For how long have you stopped both D and C?

[A Friend]

@aoshi_xken wrote:

@A Friend wrote:

After I had been taking the 5,000 for 2 or 3 weeks, I began having some urgency and diarrhea; and decided I needed to leave off the Vitamin C (but I’d not been having problems with it before the Vit D3 5,000). It didn’t get better, and may have gotten worse; so on my own I stopped both D and C. But the urgency and diarrhea have not gone away.

Or maybe there’s something else. For how long have you stopped both D and C?

AX,
Thank you for your reply. Ordinarily, I would have had the same thought/question which you replied above. However, nothing else appears to be wrong. I’m feeling fine. I strongly believe that my bowel system has been “disturbed” by something pertaining to the D3-5000 (hopefully dislodging something built-up ???)– I could venture more guesses, but they would be only guesses. (Over the years I’ve generally jokingly said, “I have a cast-iron stomach”, as foods (I maintain a very healthy diet) do not usually cause me any problems… except I’m sure years ago my gut system was compromised from two years of abx (long before AP, etc.) at a time I knew nothing about the need for replacing good gut flora wiped out by abx.

Since learning about this problem, I have continued to include supplements, etc. to breakdown and better absorb nutrients from food, and especially the amino acids. I feel positive my Vitamin C status was not good at all, and that the high-dose Sodium Ascorbate powder and Calcium Ascorbate powder which I’ve been taking for many months now were having a very positive effect. I’m hoping to solve the bowel problem soon, so I can at least resume the D3-1000 which I had no problems with. (The soy thing in the others, per Dr. K, may be in play with my sensitivity to the others.)

What I’m now planning to do is to address the bowel issues still with me, but seem to be getting less volatile. Am trying to educate myself on choices to address the bowel. Last night I found this one below (see excerpt) that looks interesting. Some of you reading my post may know or have heard about it. Your input would be appreciated:
http://rezvera.com/
You can heal your IBS by starting with a healthy digestive system, and RezVera can be your solution.
RezVera is specially formulated to help people control their IBS problem. Our natural ingredients are designed to help you break down the excessive proteins that are often present in the dysfunctional digestive system. (end of excerpt)

Get well wishes to all of you,
AF

[PhilC]

Hi AF,
@A Friend wrote:

Several months ago, my PCP had me come in for fasting labs for my annual checkup. All of my labs were quite good, and the D3 was up in the 30s. My PCP said it still needed to be higher… and suggested I add a D3 5,000 i.u., which I did and ordered it. (On hindsight, since I’d had problems with the first D3 product I had used, I should have ordered the new D3 5,000 i.u. from Metagenics.)

Just a comment… My own inclination is to increase doses gradually, especially for vitamins like vitamin D that are fat soluble, and especially in the case of vitamin D because too much can be harmful. Rather than take 5,000 IU right away, I probably would have started off by simply doubling my intake of vitamin D by taking two of the 1,000 IU pills. I once tried cod liver oil and found that it made my joint and muscle pain slightly worse. It was probably a mild “die off” reaction, but I didn’t know that at the time and discontinued taking the cod liver oil after finishing the bottle. Anyway, I am not suggesting that you do as I do; I only mention this because it may give someone an idea or two.

@A Friend wrote:

After I had been taking the 5,000 for 2 or 3 weeks, I began having some urgency and diarrhea; and decided I needed to leave off the Vitamin C (but I’d not been having problems with it before the Vit D3 5,000). It didn’t get better, and may have gotten worse; so on my own I stopped both D and C. But the urgency and diarrhea have not gone away.

Have you tried taking Pepto-Bismol (or a generic equivalent)? It’s one of the first things I try for this type of problem, and I’ve found that it often works. I’ve also found that the liquid form works better than the tablets, and it seems to work best when taken on an empty stomach about 30 to 60 minutes before a meal. I usually take it twice a day for several days, and stop after I am sure that the problem is gone.

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[A Friend]

@PhilC wrote:

Hi AF,
@A Friend wrote:

Several months ago, my PCP had me come in for fasting labs for my annual checkup. All of my labs were quite good, and the D3 was up in the 30s. My PCP said it still needed to be higher… and suggested I add a D3 5,000 i.u., which I did and ordered it. (On hindsight, since I’d had problems with the first D3 product I had used, I should have ordered the new D3 5,000 i.u. from Metagenics.)

Just a comment… My own inclination is to increase doses gradually, especially for vitamins like vitamin D that are fat soluble, and especially in the case of vitamin D because too much can be harmful. Rather than take 5,000 IU right away, I probably would have started off by simply doubling my intake of vitamin D by taking two of the 1,000 IU pills. I once tried cod liver oil and found that it made my joint and muscle pain slightly worse. It was probably a mild “die off” reaction, but I didn’t know that at the time and discontinued taking the cod liver oil after finishing the bottle. Anyway, I am not suggesting that you do as I do; I only mention this because it may give someone an idea or two.

@A Friend wrote:

After I had been taking the 5,000 for 2 or 3 weeks, I began having some urgency and diarrhea; and decided I needed to leave off the Vitamin C (but I’d not been having problems with it before the Vit D3 5,000). It didn’t get better, and may have gotten worse; so on my own I stopped both D and C. But the urgency and diarrhea have not gone away.

Have you tried taking Pepto-Bismol (or a generic equivalent)? It’s one of the first things I try for this type of problem, and I’ve found that it often works. I’ve also found that the liquid form works better than the tablets, and it seems to work best when taken on an empty stomach about 30 to 60 minutes before a meal. I usually take it twice a day for several days, and stop after I am sure that the problem is gone.

Phil

Phil, thank you SO much. A number of years ago I heard/read some good things about usage of Pepto-Bismol (related to posts by those with diagnoses such as ours… can’t recall specifics now, but think it involved even children).

At any rate, I am excited over your suggestion, and plan to get it today!

Thanks again,
AF

[Anonymous]

Would somone please clarify what the MP protocol is? I have not heard of this before.

[Maz]

@snoviello wrote:

Would somone please clarify what the MP protocol is? I have not heard of this before.

Hi Snoviello,

You’ll find info on the Marshall Protocol here:

http://www.marshallprotocol.com

It’s a different abx protocol with its own research-support site. RBF doesn’t have the resources to assist folks with info on this protocol, but you should find plenty of info there to digest. 🙂

[A Friend]

@A Friend wrote:

@PhilC wrote:

Hi AF,
@A Friend wrote:

Several months ago, my PCP had me come in for fasting labs for my annual checkup. All of my labs were quite good, and the D3 was up in the 30s. My PCP said it still needed to be higher… and suggested I add a D3 5,000 i.u., which I did and ordered it. (On hindsight, since I’d had problems with the first D3 product I had used, I should have ordered the new D3 5,000 i.u. from Metagenics.)

Just a comment… My own inclination is to increase doses gradually, especially for vitamins like vitamin D that are fat soluble, and especially in the case of vitamin D because too much can be harmful. Rather than take 5,000 IU right away, I probably would have started off by simply doubling my intake of vitamin D by taking two of the 1,000 IU pills. I once tried cod liver oil and found that it made my joint and muscle pain slightly worse. It was probably a mild “die off” reaction, but I didn’t know that at the time and discontinued taking the cod liver oil after finishing the bottle. Anyway, I am not suggesting that you do as I do; I only mention this because it may give someone an idea or two.

@A Friend wrote:

After I had been taking the 5,000 for 2 or 3 weeks, I began having some urgency and diarrhea; and decided I needed to leave off the Vitamin C (but I’d not been having problems with it before the Vit D3 5,000). It didn’t get better, and may have gotten worse; so on my own I stopped both D and C. But the urgency and diarrhea have not gone away.

Have you tried taking Pepto-Bismol (or a generic equivalent)? It’s one of the first things I try for this type of problem, and I’ve found that it often works. I’ve also found that the liquid form works better than the tablets, and it seems to work best when taken on an empty stomach about 30 to 60 minutes before a meal. I usually take it twice a day for several days, and stop after I am sure that the problem is gone.

Phil

Phil, thank you SO much. A number of years ago I heard/read some good things about usage of Pepto-Bismol (related to posts by those with diagnoses such as ours… can’t recall specifics now, but think it involved even children). At any rate, I am excited over your suggestion, and plan to get it today! Thanks again,
AF

Phil,
You seem to be my “go to” person on this thread and this subject. And I have appreciated your help and suggestions. In spite of discontinuing the Vit D3 1,000 and 5,000, which my physicians actually have nagged me to take for several years, the acute volatile diarrhea for the most part has subsided, I’ve continued to have abnormal/urgency elimination, and over the past several days have had dizziness and generally feeling unwell. Decided I needed to try to see if I could find any diagnosis related to my saga and these new symptoms. IBS seemed to fit, along with spaciness, dizziness.

I found these several things, and contacted my AP physician, who is very knowledgeable in these areas, about an appointment. These are some of the things I found that I want to make all of you aware of — about the need for lots of magnesium when we take large amount of D3. For want of a better diagnosis today, I have classic symptoms of Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS). I also have developed ongoing dizziness and spaciness. Since I had a rather serious “wasting syndrome” back about 1998-1999, and I also need to know if malabsorption is now playing a role in my gut problems. I learned several years ago, from Dr. K, that we can have “Celiac Syndrome” when our gut lining is compromised, without our having true Celiac Disease. Time to check this out, and an appointment is being scheduled.

Vitamin D supplementation and Magnesium
MAGNESIUM DEFICIENCY & VITAMIN D
http://www.livestrong.com/article/424473-magnesium-deficiency-vitamin-d/

Magnesium is a mineral known for its role in maintaining strong bones and muscle tone. It is also required by all the enzymes that metabolize vitamin D . Without adequate amounts of magnesium, vitamin D cannot be properly utilized. For this reason, magnesium is considered the most important of the five co-factors for vitamin D.

Magnesium Deficiency
The U.S. Department of Agriculture estimates that almost 70 percent of Americans are magnesium deficient, which is due in part to inadequate diet, but also due to the mineral-depleted soil that most vegetables and fruits now grow in. The National Institutes of Health recommends 400 mg of magnesium per day for men younger than 30 years and 310 mg daily for women in the same age bracket. Beyond 30 years old, the amounts increase to 420 mg and 320 mg respectively; 360 mg is recommended during pregnancy . Adults should maintain blood serum levels of magnesium between 0.7 and 1.0 mmol/L.

[Note: Read under each of the other main headings that shows up under the above link. I have been a user of MagChlor90 for several years and it has done an amazing job. However, with the large doses of Vit D3, based on what I read on the above site, I believe the amount I was taking was inadequate — and especially with the volatile diarrhea, which probably led to loss of needed nutrients of the gastric content quickly expelled without time to properly absorb nutrients consumed. I had begun having spasms in feet and legs several weeks ago before I stopped the D3 altogether.]

Magnesium and Vitamin D

Vitamin D Co-Factors

Sources of Magnesium

I am hoping what I found about the need to take magnesium (and higher amounts needed when we take D3) will help many of us, as with the problems we on this board have, we surely do not need to be magnesium deficient — and we need to be able to absorb nutrients from our gut system!!!

AF

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