IV versus Pills

[Bugs3472]

I took the minocyline by pill for a month and developed pains in my chest. I think it is a yeast infection. I run, so perhaps that was a factor. My doctor has suggested the IV which is very inconvenient. Any thoughts on IV versus pills? If I could get better, faster, I am certainly okay with inconvenience.

[PhilC]

Hi,

How much minocycline were you taking? Also, please describe the chest pain in more detail.

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[Bugs3472]

I was taking 100 mg 2 x day. About 2.5 weeks after taking it I was running and my chest felt tight. I thought maybe I had a little heartburn too, which I’d never had before. Then a few weeks later I was very short of breath like I was not able to get enough oxygen in. Later in the day, I was tired, but could not yawn. In the evening it got worse, so went to ER, they checked for heart issues, and found none. When they pressed on my chest it was sore. I found if I tried to run, eventually I my lungs wouldn’t expand and I couldn’t run for lack of oxygen. I continued to have the breathing issues, but I did find that if I drank a little water I could breath easier.

My doctor knows about the ER visit but got to speak with him yet. I had some other issues while on the minocycline too. I had some moments of anxiety, which I believe were thyroid dumps. Off the minocycline the burning in my hands, and joint pain is returning. I need to score some minocycline.

[Maz]

Hi Bugs,

Any chance you’ve had a tick-bite in the past? Just wondering, as those who work outdoors or play sports or train outdoors seem to be particularly disposed to tick-borne illnesses.

Just a fellow patient suggestion to have checked out and not sure where you’re located, but air hunger and costochondritis-like chest wall pain can be signs of babesiosis, which is a protozoan infection passed by ticks and is similar to malaria.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2001/0515/p1969.html

“TABLE 1
Common Presenting Signs and Symptoms of Human Babesiosis
Generalized weakness
Fever
Gastrointestinal symptoms (anorexia, nausea, abdominal pain, vomiting, diarrhea, etc.)
Headache
Myalgia
Weight loss
Arthralgia
Respiratory symptoms (cough, shortness of breath, etc.)
Dark urine”

In combo with Lyme disease, the two infections can present with a confounding array of symptoms, including joint and muscle pains and neuropathic burning. Anxiety is a really common symptom of babesiosis, too. Just a suggestion, Bugs, but maybe worth checking out, because although minocycline is used an an anti-malarial and also babesiosis, usually a combo therapy, such as plaquenil and clindamycin, in combo with mino works well. Liposomal artemisinin (taken in a pulsed fashion to avoid resistance) is also great for babesiosis.

If you need a physician list, Bugs, would be good to know if Lyme and coinfections are involved as AP docs will treat different from LLMDs (Lyme Literate MDs).

Hope you can find your answers and maybe Phil or someone else here will have some further ideas for you.

[Bugs3472]

I am not aware of any tick bite. I was concerned too but I don’t think so. My son and I were both sick last October. There was no cold, just respiratory illness. I took him to doctor, he was put on antibiotics. I was struggling with a running injury and just wanted to rest. Two of rest, I resumed running, my injuries came back, but at an unexplained pain level. I knew something was wrong, but docs thought running over use, as I was training for a marathon. After that I crossed trained, injuries continued. I was such an active person and was getting hurt so easily, it didn’t make sense.

When pain went to everywhere, I found doctor, more of the alt type, It is confirmed I have adrenal gland issue, not just fatigue. I have a history that lends itself to Addison’s disease, which explains the injuries.

I think my illness was mycoplasma. It is either attacking adrenal gland, or adrenal gland is exhausted. Despite the anxiety, even breathing issues, life was better on AP. I want to be on the road back.

I am certain the anxiety, which I can tell you is definitely something chemical going on stopped when I stopped minocycline.

Doctor knows protocol. His plan was always one month, then come off. We have not talked about what to try next. He wanted to do blood tests and then decide.

[lynnie_sydney]

Hi Bugs – you may also want to check out CPn – there’s a wealth of information at cpnhelp.org. The chest infections you describe make me wonder if this might be a candidate. Short course of abx only knocks out one phase of the life cycle and many other conditions can result. Worth a look. You may need to play detective for a while.

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[richie]

IV minocycline is rarely used due to the high risk of deep vein thrombosis —however -there are alternatives to minocyline such as doxycycline –azithromycin etc —
richie

[PhilC]

Hi,

Although it’s possible that you had a bad reaction to minocycline, a more likely explanation is that your dose was too high. You may want to try taking 100 mg of mino on MWF only and see how you do on that. That is a typical starting dose for people whose “autoimmune” disease includes an inflammatory component.

If your doctor had you take minocycline for only one month and then stop, then it sounds like he or she is not an experienced/knowledgeable AP doc. Antibiotic therapy for rheumatic diseases is a process that takes years; being on an antibiotic for a few weeks is not enough.

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[jltntl]

I ended up in hospital in 2010 for atrial fibrillation and chest pain. At the time, no one had any idea, but i had 6 weeks prior begun mino for RA. So these days i suspect it was the mino. The AF made me feel like i was going to die. The chest pain made me feel like i was about to have a heart attack. Mine was a constant BIG pain in middle of chest mainly. I had every heart test available to me at the hospital and everything looked ok. BUT I was having massive chest pains.

The AF ceased about 4 or 5 days off meds. The chest pain continued for another week and then was gone.

I just began doxy 2 weeks ago and plaquenil this week – and got the chest pain back again the other night. Massive pain. This time i just got up and drank a big glass of water and that helped.

I am too scared to try the mino again.

[A Friend]

@Bugs3472 wrote:

I took the minocyline by pill for a month and developed pains in my chest. I think it is a yeast infection. I run, so perhaps that was a factor. My doctor has suggested the IV which is very inconvenient. Any thoughts on IV versus pills? If I could get better, faster, I am certainly okay with inconvenience.

Hello Bugs3472,

EDIT: Bugs, after posting farther down below, I did some searches and found a post by BG which you may find helpful. On the same page as the link I am posting here,
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7185&p=60892&hilit=magnesium+chloride#p60894
there is a page of search “hits” found discussing even a change in the type of abx and how this worked for BG. Crossing my fingers for you. Also, the thought came to mind, and am wondering if you’ve been checking your pH, and if so, are you very acidic? Athletes (have several dedicated ones in my family) sometimes have problems with lactic acid buildup, for which there is good information. Lactic acid buildup is not uncommon, but seems like other things, doesn’t seem to be on the “radar” of most physicians. Both Cheryl’s daughter and one of my grandsons, if my recall is working, found this information very interesting. When I find the link about this, I will share it with you.

You may be aware already that many athletes become very depleted of minerals, and especially magnesium, as well as patients with chronic illnesses. In depletion of magnesium, this can cause heart attacks and other pain problems, etc. If you go to General Discussion search window, and type in the words magnesium and Seelig, many many posts should appear. You may want to fine-tune your search words, but depletion of magnesium has been discussed in many posts there over several years. Also, you might do a search using the words: Magnesium Chloride+Dr Sherry Rogers. (Having a Red Blood Cell Mineral Test has been recommended by such as Dr. Sherry Rogers in her books, to learn the state of the minerals in the body.)

Another problem that can come to light is a deficiency of needed Essential Amino Acids, such as are usually supplied in our diet from complete proteins. Some of us do not have a high-functioning gastrosystem and apparently are not able to digest and extract these needed “Essential” amino acids (we can also be ones with low HCl [hydrochloric acid, for digesting meat] — the essential word here means the body cannot make these unless they are consumed in the diet — and then the body uses these essential amino acids for specific metabolic functions necessary to keep our bodies functioning properly by having the enzymes necessary to work with other enzymes. (I found this information to be very important in my own health problems, as my gastrosystem had over a number of years become compromised by a fungal-yeast overgrowth of which I had no obvious signs to let me know I had that problem. This happened after two years of antibiotic RXes about every 4 months for two years for a jaw infection, erroneously diagnosed as TMJ …. and not knowing about taking probiotics to replace the good flora needed for health. Doctors have notoriously been delinquent about not telling patients and parents of sick babies and children about this need for probiotics. Having been super healthy my whole life until about 20 years ago, this became a huge learning experience.

Good luck to you,
AF

[PhilC]

Hi Julia,
@jltntl wrote:

I ended up in hospital in 2010 for atrial fibrillation and chest pain. At the time, no one had any idea, but i had 6 weeks prior begun mino for RA. So these days i suspect it was the mino. The AF made me feel like i was going to die. The chest pain made me feel like i was about to have a heart attack. Mine was a constant BIG pain in middle of chest mainly. I had every heart test available to me at the hospital and everything looked ok. BUT I was having massive chest pains.

The AF ceased about 4 or 5 days off meds. The chest pain continued for another week and then was gone.

I just began doxy 2 weeks ago and plaquenil this week – and got the chest pain back again the other night. Massive pain. This time i just got up and drank a big glass of water and that helped.

I am too scared to try the mino again.

If the chest pain returns, take a few deep breaths while paying attention to how your chest feels. Does the pain change at all when taking a deep breath?

It is quite possible that your heart is infected, and the atrial fibrillation and chest pain are a result of the killing of infected cells. Secondary porphyria may be a contributing factor. A possible solution is to reduce the dose of antibiotic and then increase the dose very slowly, but only if the current dose is well tolerated. If you get your doctor to write the doxy or mino prescription for 50 mg tablets, you would be able to start at 25 mg MWF (or every other day) — the lowest effective dose — by using a tablet cutter to split the tablets in half.

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[jbower79]

Hi,
My daughter had trouble tolerating minocycline and needed to take the name brand minocin. A year ago she was so sick with Lyme and scleroderma symptoms we were never sure what was causing what — really had a hard time figuring out if she was herxing or whether her problems were lyme symptoms. She suffered with costa chondritis 3 different times last fall. She certainly wasn’t the athlete that you are, but she danced ballet for 13 years and had to give all of that up because she could not tolerate exercise at all.
We finally took her off of minocycline and put her on azithromycin. The zith seemed to be what worked for her for about 4 months. Then we put her on name brand minocin at 50 mg MWF. She is currently tolerating 100mg MWF. The minocin is AP treatment for her scleroderma. We plan to increase the dose to 100mg 2xday MWF over her Thanksgiving break. In addition to minocin, she also takes 300mg Rifampin and 250mg azithromycin on MWF at same time as her minocin. These addl abx are for Bartonella and Lyme infections. Her Lyme doc felt that her anxiety issues were caused by Bartonella. I have to say that her anxiety has improved quite a bit since going on Rifampin.
Points to consider:
1. try name brand minocin vs generic minocycline if you haven’t already
2. Try the much lower dose of minocin/minocycline as I think Phil mentioned
3. Consider co-infections as I believe Maz mentioned

Good luck!
Joyce

[Bugs3472]

A friend,
thank you. I was feeling sad today and just reading new ideas brought me hope.I read through that information. I understood some of it. 🙂

The chest pain was not heart arthymia. I am convinced something was causing my lungs to stick together. I am back on minocycline now, and not running, no issues.

I have not been testing Ph. I ordered strips tonight. If it is high what would I do? Go on raw diet? I have done an all raw food diet, even before sickness, and would do it again.

I do indeed have lactic acid. I have lactic acid pain badly in my hands. I take ribose powder and a cocktail supplement of CoQ10, Alpha Lipoic Acid, L-Carnitine, and Grapeseed Extract. The lactic acid supplements seem to do little without the minocycline. Together they worked like magic. Why is the lactic acid build up so badly in hands? I use to swim, and gave it up, too much hand pain.

Is there a test for Essential Amino Acids or do you just start taking them and see if you feel better?

I have not read any online stories that match mine. Seems most people with auto immune disease can exercise, and I get hurt so easily. E.g. lift one set of weights and my elbows get sore. My cortisol levels were low, but they are back up now, and I am still hurting despite the change. I also do not have fatigue. All diseases, fibermylagia, addison’s, RA, etc.. they all have fatigue and I am fine. (Although I wonder how long before I mentally check out from having no diagnosis disease or confidence someone will help me.)

One thing, about me, is that I was runner who frequently had runner’s trots. Rather embarrassing. But perhaps that much forced bathroom stops could cause problems in digestive system?

My doctor is a functional medicine OD, naturopath, and when I first saw him he thought my issues are either Auto Immune or a DeTox issue. I think I need to discuss detox with him.

[A Friend]

@A Friend wrote:

@Bugs3472 wrote:

I took the minocyline by pill for a month and developed pains in my chest. I think it is a yeast infection. I run, so perhaps that was a factor. My doctor has suggested the IV which is very inconvenient. Any thoughts on IV versus pills? If I could get better, faster, I am certainly okay with inconvenience.

Hello Bugs3472,
EDIT: Bugs, after posting farther down below, I did some searches and found a post by BG which you may find helpful. On the same page as the link I am posting here,
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7185&p=60892&hilit=magnesium+chloride#p60894
there is a page of search “hits” found discussing even a change in the type of abx and how this worked for BG. Crossing my fingers for you. Also, the thought came to mind, and am wondering if you’ve been checking your pH, and if so, are you very acidic? Athletes (have several dedicated ones in my family) sometimes have problems with lactic acid buildup, for which there is good information. Lactic acid buildup is not uncommon, but seems like other things, doesn’t seem to be on the “radar” of most physicians. Both Cheryl’s daughter and one of my grandsons, if my recall is working, found this information very interesting. When I find the link about this, I will share it with you.
AF

Bugs, you may not have time to read all of the links at the end of my post, but you are urged to read the one with the title: Acid Base Balance And Disturbance

The link I mentioned about Sports Performance in a previous Mercola newsletter is no longer working, as it seems sports related info, etc. such as this, is now being directed by the Mercola newsletter to a feature on Facebook. So, a search using similar words for Sports Performance and Lactic Acid was done, which yielded interesting information (including research abstracts). Bugs, my gut feeling is that your ongoing problems should be addressed, and cautiously. Just skimmed over the scientific info, but there were references to the heart and ATP (which I understand is our heart energy). You might like to curtail any strenuous exercise until you see a medical person trained in complementary medicine. Also, Dr. Stephen Sinatra is an outstanding cardiologist who is both a cardiologist and has orthomolecular training, has an ACAM designation, etc. You can go to his site and read. Also, he has several published books, and he has impeccable medical credentials. I mention this suggestion, because of my belief we should address the cause. I had some heart related symptoms a few years ago, and imagine how lucky I felt to know that one of the researchers years ago on CoQ10 lives in our little city. It felt really good to have the assurance I was seeing someone whom I felt I could trust.

About what you have shared, my “hunch” is that you, too, are using up your heart energy and not able to replace/make it fast as you need it. I’m strongly wondering if your symptoms are not related to both ATP and to your being overly acidic … perhaps acidosis also including lactic acidosis from running and acidosis from the antibiotics, etc. Some good pH testing strips could give you clues if you tested your first morning urine and your saliva … BEFORE YOU EAT OR DRINK ANYTHING. The results will not be medically accurate, but will let you know generally whether you are in a healthy pH range. When I first tested, mine was 5…. as acidic as they measured. I found a Nature’s Sunshine lady and got strips from her. I’m not advertising, but some strips I’ve used were not as user friendly. I’ve been using them ever since, just to make sure I’m in a healthy range. (By the way, even when the blood pH is tested in the hospital, they can not tell how acidic our body is. I understand the body steals minerals from other body areas, bones, etc., because the blood MUST remain in a critical area to sustain life and may always seem normal. Hopefully, they may have another way to know. Good luck to you.

Here are a few links:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21197542
Effects of bicarbonate ingestion and high intensity exercise on lactate and H(+)-ion distribution in different blood compartments.
Zinner C, Wahl P, Achtzehn S, Sperlich B, Mester J.
Source
Institute of Training Science and Sport Informatics, German Sport University Cologne, Am Sportpark M

[Author]

Posts