Injecting Clindamycin directly into stubborn joints?

[Pauyen]

Just wondering if any of you guys have had this to resolve any particular problem areas? How did it go?

Cheers.

[lynnie_sydney]

Paul – it’s a little quiet right now on the Forum from the U.S. perspective – 4th July weekend. From what I’ve seen, there have been quite a few folks who’ve had Clindy IV’s to boost AP treatment but dont remember anyone injecting straight into joint. Which joint(s) are particularly troubling you right now? BTW, if you type ‘clindamycin’ into search box at top of General Discussion Front Page, lots of past discussion on it will come up…….may keep you going until others finish their holiday weekend. Lynnie

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[lynnie_sydney]

Paul – remembered this from http://www.rheumatic.org FAQ’s – section 5

INJECTING THE JOINT Thomas McPherson Brown, M.D. et al in Antimycoplasma Approach to the Mechanism and the Control of Rheumatoid Disease from Inflammatory Diseases and Copper, The Humana Press 1982 states: ‘Intraarticular injections of clindamycin have been very effective when the reactive state of the joint is so intense that penetrance (of the antibiotic) is not achieved by the oral or IV route. The inflammation must be reduced in most instances for maximum clindamycin effect. The usual treatment plan for large joints, clindamycin 300 mg, plus dexamethasone 4 mg. A reduced amount of the same combination of these medications is used for smaller joints.’

Lynnie

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[Pauyen]

Thanks for those Lynnie… yeah, I recall Dr Brownstein’s book ‘Overcoming Arthritis’ where he mentions injecting stubborn joints. It’s just my knees and one finger in particular which persist with a little swelling/pain/stiffness… I would love to be able to stretch my quadriceps. I see Melb Dr in 6 weeks and think I will bring it up, since she does recommend Dr B’s book 😀 as does the Melb Naturopath.

Hoping I can take a few other good testimonies with me in regard to this, though Im unsure Melb Dr would be up for it regardless…?

Things overall are still rather good/great when I think about where I was 6 months ago, but seem to have plateaued… I know Melb Dr is adding Zithromax into the mix (next appointment) to target bacteria in the bones and that may solve the problem, just want to throw a few other options up for consideration.

Thanks again

[lynnie_sydney]

Paul – I know Dr D doesnt do IV’s any more (did some years ago) but not sure about clindy IM’s. Wonder if a local doc could be persuaded??? Knees btw are notoriously indicated in Lyme/Lyme-like illness. Do you know what pathogens you tested positive for? If not, would be worth asking LW to confirm for you. Can sometimes assist when researching options. Also, plateauing is not uncommon and just may indicate it’s time to tweak. Glad that, overall, you are doing so well. Lynnie

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[Maz]

Hi Paul,

This may or may not be helpful, but info about intra-articular shots is on the RBF site under:

“Antibiotic Therapy for Rheumatic Disease: Routes of Administration”

http://roadback.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/education.display/display_id/118.html

There is also some info on Treating Plateaus and Non-responders here:

http://roadback.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/education.display/display_id/131.html

And, another article: The Problem of Non-responders

http://roadback.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/education.display/display_id/126.html

One almost instantaneous way to reduce inflammation I have found helpful is to do coffee enemas. It’s a fairly simple procedure and, although distasteful to begin with and embarrassing to the sensibilities, the benefits far outweigh those negative feelings. It’s an ancient procedure used for centuries to promote health and for cleansing (used in hospitals every day), but also one that was promoted by Gerson in the treatment of cancer patients to reduce pain and, in some instances, reversing some cancers. Using organic coffee, the caffeine is absorbed by the hepatic portal blood vessel which lies alongside the bowel, and transports the caffeine directly to the liver. This stimulates a massive rise in glutathione (by some accounts I’ve read – by 600 to 700%). Glutathione is the body’s master detoxfifer and this also stimulates bile flow to help remove toxins from the liver more swiftly. Another bonus is that sometimes howel overgrowth of bacteria can increase inflammation and cleansing the lower gut in this way also dumps these less than helpful bacteria. Of course, wouldn’t suggest trying this without talking to one’s doc, first, but it is an adjunctive therapy that has been very helpful to me in helping to knock out flares/herxes (in addition to liver flushing).

When progress has been experienced in a consistent trend and slows down to a plateau, sometimes adding a second abx will help, or giving things a boost with a round of IVs. However, I’d also be checking into whether building hypersensivity might be an issue (build up of antigen that the body is having trouble eliminating) and upping the anti on detoxing.

I talked to my Lyme doc about IA shots into my knees in the first year and he wasn’t encouraging about this because he felt that too much direct antigen release into the joint (die-off) would predispose me to more than necessary risk of joint damage….besides which cortisone shots into the joint would provide temporary relief, but also add to the risk of bone destruction. That’s just one physician opinion, though, and my knees were like big melons at the time in very bad shape. He also felt that draining the fluid wouldn’t be of much value as they’d just re-fill again pretty quickly…again, though, I have Lyme, so this may be more of an issue for Lymies.

If memory serves, there have been one or two people here who have mentioned having IA shots into their joints, so a search of the forum might bring these folk up for you – I don’t recall how they did with this method, though. ❓

[A Friend]

@Pauyen wrote:

… yeah, I recall Dr Brownstein’s book ‘Overcoming Arthritis’ where he mentions injecting stubborn joints. It’s just my knees and one finger in particular which persist with a little swelling/pain/stiffness… I would love to be able to stretch my quadriceps….. Hoping I can take a few other good testimonies with me in regard to this, though Im unsure Melb Dr would be up for it regardless…?….. Things overall are still rather good/great when I think about where I was 6 months ago, but seem to have plateaued… I know Melb Dr is adding Zithromax into the mix (next appointment) to target bacteria in the bones and that may solve the problem, just want to throw a few other options up for consideration…..

Hi Paul, I’m posting a bit of information I hope to assemble with other information fairly soon. But, I couldn’t resist sharing a bit of hope for hypertrophic arthritis joints, rheumatoid arthritis joints, and AS joints, etc. This link was shared yesterday in a post up above in a new topic (B-6, P5P, Niacinamide, etc), but had not then had a chance to look at it all as closely as I did this morning. If you will go to http://www.doctoryourself.com/kaufman10.html at bottom of page 1 of 6, and the pages that follow, there is very encouraging information about Joint Range Index for those with AS joints with prolonged adequate niacinamide therapy. I underlined a portion of this text this am, on pg 2 of 6; it is: “As has been previously noted, some joints which initially appear to be clinically ankylosed, in time regain their full ranges of movement in response to prolonged adequate niacinamide therapy”…[there is more that you can read on these joints]. That part about even this degree of damage being able to respond to this therapy was an unexpected “gift”!

A search for the dosage of niacinamide recommended for this therapy By Dr. Kaufman yielded this link:
http://www.doctoryourself.com/kaufman3.html

Keep the faith!

[Valsmum]

I want to do the same thing as you Pauyen. I want to stretch my legs and flex my quadriceps too. I asked my orthopedic surgeon if he would inject the clindy in my knees, but he wanted to read up on it. He drains my knees from time to time and it feels so good. Somedays it swells right back up and other days it does not. I am so curious about the clindy injection in the knee, if you do it, you’ll have to post your results for sure. I wonder about too much die off in the knees like Maz pointed out.

Take care,
Sheri

[Author]

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