IgG vs IgM vs IgA: Do I have Myco Pneum or Chlam Pneum?

[purplepanda]

Could someone please explain the difference between IgG and IgM.

My understanding of IgG is that if you test high/positive, it is an infection from the past.
My understanding of IgM is if it is high/positive, it is a current infection.

In the infectious theory, is it the belief that if you have a high IgG (but negative IgM) from the same blood draw, that the infection is inactive, but still lurking and should be treated?

My situation: blood draw for both tests were collected at the same time.
Chlamydia pneumoniae: IgG is High at 1:64. IgM & IgA are negative.

Mycoplasma pneumoniae: IgG Abs is High at 680. IgM Abs is negative.

I don’t believe I currently have an active infection of with CP or MP. Is this correct? Thank you.

11-20-15: Off Mobic. No NSAIDS.
10-14-15: Working toward Minocycline 100mg BID. Able to "lock" my knees when standing now!
9-14-15: 2nd Clindamycin IV series. Still on 5mg Prednisone & 7.5 mg Mobic per day. Swelling greatly reduced in knees.
8-15-15: Started Minocycline 100mg BID MWF to present.
5-25-15: Started generic Minocycline, 100mg MWF. Tried titrating to 100mg BID MWF over a month & went back down to 100mg MWF.
5-18-15: 1st Clindamycin IV series. Dropped Naproxen, added Mobic.

[PhilC]

Hi,
@purplepanda wrote:

My understanding of IgG is that if you test high/positive, it is an infection from the past.

Generally speaking, yes, but in the case of Cpn it can also mean a current chronic infection. The reason is because an infection with C. pneumoniae is difficult to completely get rid of.

“IgM occurs in the first few weeks of initial infection and disappears quickly. I have yet to detect it in chronic Cpn infections. IgG indicates past infection, which of course, in Cpn can indicate chronic persistent infection, as the organism is an obligatory intracellular pathogen and is difficult for the immune system to totally eliminate it from the body. IgA are antibdies produced by endothelium (the linings of blood vessels, lungs, bowel ect) and are an indicator of current active infection. With a good laboratory I find that about 80% of pwMS have Cpn IgG and 50% have Cpn IgA. My impression is that those with IgA have more active disease and are more difficult to treat.” — Dr. Paul Thibault

Source: http://cpnhelp.org/whats_better_blood_test_c

Also, even a negative test result does not mean that one is not infected with Cpn.

“In the case of Chlamydia pnemoniae, there are significant difficulties in obtaining accurate tests. In addition to the accuracy issue, individuals may not respond antigenically. All of this means that having a negative blood test for Cpn does not mean that you don’t have a Cpn infection. Tests can be inaccurate for the following, and other, reasons:

* The test may not be sensitive enough. Antigen tests for Cpn are said to be relatively inaccurate. PCR tests are the most sensitive, but dependent on the particular primers used, whether the DNA used by the test matches the particular strain of Cpn one has, whether the test used accounts for the type of sample well (blood, sputum, cerebrospinal fluid, etc.), the accuracy of the technician (PCR is particularly tricky in a technical sense), and so on.

* If the infection is predominantly in the cryptic phase, there is no serology evident.

* If the patient’s immune system is significantly depleted, they will not show positive antigens for the organism infecting them (they are immuno-incompetent).”

Source: http://www.cpnhelp.org/diagnosis_issues

As for Mycoplasma pneumoniae, I currently do not have enough information on that pathogen to answer that part of your query.

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[Linda L]

After all that, is it worth to do a test for chlamydia pneumonia at all?
Linda L.

RA tried everything: Methotraxate, Arava, Humira. Pneumonia three times. Anemia. Very low iron. Hypothyroidism
AP from April 2014 till August 2015. No luck.
Current medications: Natural thyroid, Mobic, supplements,
vitamins and minerals.
MTHFR heterozygous

[A Friend]

Hello Everyone,
I’ve been tied up for some time, and have missed seeing what is going on here on the Board. At the risk of overloading you, I’m pasting continuing information/links on the subject of this thread, which I have saved in a Word file from several years ago. Hope it is helpful:

[Copied info begins]
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8512&p=65951&hilit=immunoPro+C+pneumoniae#p65951
ImmunoPro + C Pneumonia + plus Hi Dose Vit C = High HDL + NO C Pneumonia

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Lynnie, just wondering if you ever read my post about being on low-dose Minocin a few years ago and then getting a winter bug from my husband during winter … the bug that causes epidemics in schools in the winter and sometimes causes schools to close. He got pretty ill from it, and took nearly a month and RX meds before it went away. I didn’t get it from him, but did begin noticing something between the breast area and was giving me a slight tendency to cough. This progressed over time, and I decided I needed to have it checked out.

A lab showed it was CPn, so apparently that’s what the epidemic was all about. That was when my then-AP physician prescribed Zithromax pulsed to take alternate days from the Minocin. Before very long, I was not feeling very well on the two meds and started having something resembling what I read about sciatica. One morning then when I stepped out of bed, there was a lightning bolt of pain that felt like I’d been tazered. Long story here shortened: that’s when apparently my liver rebelled big time at what was going on in my body and its having to deal with two meds that my dear liver didn’t feel it was up to handling. This was also the time, that I’ve shared with RBFBB before, that the pain got even worse in the middle of the following night, and when I used my first-ever coffee enema. The acute killing pain was better after the coffee enema, but the pain did not subside on its own for a week.

Because of the serious-seeming nature of the acute pain, etc., it was recommended I see the oncologist, because several times my previous scans, x-rays, etc. showed impression was serious cancer. This lady oncologist prescribed Bextra then (off the market now I believe), and using it was the only way I could get enough relief to get out of bed to bathe, eat, etc. I had to stop all medications, out of fear it would do more damage to my liver. Eventually, when the pain had finally gone away, I knew I needed to figure out something to use to address the CPn. Just miraculously happened that I read about the nondenatured whey protein (i.e. ImmunoPro) being used by Dr. Paul Cheney for his patients for six months and their labs came back normal. I mentioned this to my then AP physician, and he seized the moment and said yes! that’s what we needed to do.

I used it for 6 months or a bit longer, we retested, and the test came back normal. After this, I remained off Minocin for a long time. And, the story about this was shared at the time the AP physician mentioned above retired, and I began seeing Dr. K in another city. She noticed on my first appointment with her that an abnormal lab had been overlooked and not treated. She addressed it immediately, and a month later I was again on my

[purplepanda]

Thank you for the responses, PhilC, Linda, & AFriend. I just had my 5 days of Clindamycin IV’s, and the Dr tested again for Mycoplasma Pneu when I was assessed. My labs showed I was again positive for IgG and text after the result said this test could be a past or current infection. IGM is well below the positive range. My previous test didn’t explain the IgG. You were right on the money with your answer, PhilC! I looked myself for the info and only saw IgG as a past infection.

11-20-15: Off Mobic. No NSAIDS.
10-14-15: Working toward Minocycline 100mg BID. Able to "lock" my knees when standing now!
9-14-15: 2nd Clindamycin IV series. Still on 5mg Prednisone & 7.5 mg Mobic per day. Swelling greatly reduced in knees.
8-15-15: Started Minocycline 100mg BID MWF to present.
5-25-15: Started generic Minocycline, 100mg MWF. Tried titrating to 100mg BID MWF over a month & went back down to 100mg MWF.
5-18-15: 1st Clindamycin IV series. Dropped Naproxen, added Mobic.

[Linda L]

A Friend,
Does any non-denatured whey protein maintain immune enhancing? In the description of whey protein they sell here /ProMatrix/ it is written: …supresses appetite and gives a feeling of fullness. When combined with exercise is designed to increase lean muscle mass…”They don’t mention anything about immune system.
Linda L.

RA tried everything: Methotraxate, Arava, Humira. Pneumonia three times. Anemia. Very low iron. Hypothyroidism
AP from April 2014 till August 2015. No luck.
Current medications: Natural thyroid, Mobic, supplements,
vitamins and minerals.
MTHFR heterozygous

[A Friend]

@Linda L wrote:

A Friend,
Does any non-denatured whey protein maintain immune enhancing? In the description of whey protein they sell here /ProMatrix/ it is written: …supresses appetite and gives a feeling of fullness. When combined with exercise is designed to increase lean muscle mass…”They don’t mention anything about immune system.
Linda L.

Hello Linda L,

There are numerous kinds/types of products sold as whey protein. The whey protein I have mentioned numerous times over the years in posts here on RBFBB is the nondenatured whey protein, and the one I specifically have always used is ImmunoPro. There are any number of posts on the Bulletin Board about this particular type nondenatured whey protein. It is not usually sold in health stores, but is ordered and shipped. Confirm shipping schedules in hot summer time. Also, it is kept in the refrigerator once received. One canister of the ImmunoPro lasts me 60 days (using one scoop daily … in about 1/2 cup almond milk and a tiny scoop of Kal brand powdered Stevia.. combined/shook in small jar with lid, then sipped slowly for better buccal absorption).

I still find that one scoop a day for myself is the right dose. I once increased my dose from one scoop to two for several weeks. I didn’t feel bad from the increase, but I did have a rather bizarre detoxing event through the skin on top of my left leg, and I stopped taking it… until my physician determined what was happening. Labs were all fine. After a month or two, I cautiously started back. No more problems. Looking back now, and knowing what I’ve learned the past year after oral surgery, my guess is that the bizarre detoxing through the top of my left leg had to do with lymph detoxing (though I only recently came to this conclusion (a guess), when I had another clue about this).

This is the link to one thread that has a lot of information:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5921&hilit=non+denatured+whey+protein

Also, if you would like to find more written on this subject on RBFBB, go to the first page of the Bulletin Board. And, in the little search window under it, type in the words “nondenatured whey protein” — this is the type whey protein that is supposed to be in its natural potency state, and has lots of properties for making glutathione, and supplying the body with needed/necessary enzymes. Your search should find many posts, giving you much information.

Feel free to ask if you have any questions. There are a number of members here who are also using this type whey protein… or have used it. I must add that it has amazing capabilities of detoxifying the body, and please don’t underestimate the power of this one little scoop of whey protein… and begin slowly. If you decide to increase your dosage after taking it, I’d increase slowly.

Best to you,
AF

[Linda L]

Thank you Friend for all detailed explanations.
Linda L.

RA tried everything: Methotraxate, Arava, Humira. Pneumonia three times. Anemia. Very low iron. Hypothyroidism
AP from April 2014 till August 2015. No luck.
Current medications: Natural thyroid, Mobic, supplements,
vitamins and minerals.
MTHFR heterozygous

[PhilC]

I would avoid whey protein unless you are absolutely certain that you are not sensitive to dairy products.

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[A Friend]

@PhilC wrote:

I would avoid whey protein unless you are absolutely certain that you are not sensitive to dairy products.

Phil

Linda L and Phil,

I always find exploring this whey protein topic interesting — because my using it and interest in it go back a number of years. I forget to check for any ongoing research. From a search just done for answers to another question, the following important topics/links were discovered. Not enough time to read them now, but look forward to reading them (especially one dental-related). Wanted anyone interested in nondenatured whey protein now to have this information, also.

AF
Attachments with links below.

http://www.wellwisdom.com/pages/Whey-Facts.html#macular
Whey Protein Side Effects

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Whey Protein Facts and Application, Dr. Lawrence Sosna
Dr. Lawrence Sosna

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[Notes included about the above information in document:]
1. Biochemical Pharmacology 47:2113-2123 1994
2. Droege W, Holm E. Role of cysteine and glutathione HIV-wasting and other diseases associated with muscle wasting and immunoglobulin function. FASEB J 1997; 11:10771089
3. WHEY PROTEIN REPORT,Current Concepts on Whey Protein Usage, Prepared for The Cleveland Eye Clinic,by: David Marshall, Jr., O.D., Ph.D., Consult

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http://www.wellwisdom.com/pages/Research.html
[Believe when this link is opened, the titles below become live links, also.]
Research
Role of Cysteine and Glutathione in HIV infection and other diseases associated with muscle wasting and immunological dysfunction. By Droge W, Holm E
AACR: High Cysteine Levels Linked to Lower Rates of Breast Cancer. By Brian Reid
Glutathione and immune function. By Droge W, Breitkreutz R.
Free radical scavenging is defective in tooth disease
Oxidative Stress in Chronic Liver Disease: The Role of Glutathione. By Theodore Hersh, M.D., MACG
Glutathione Peroxidase 1 Activity and Cardiovascular Events in Patients with Coronary Artery Disease

[Linda L]

Phil,
This is something I really don’t know. I didn’t test it before I started gluten and dairy free diet. When I was born my mother couldn’t breastfeed me. When they started to feed me with a bottle. I think mainly cow’s milk with semolina and sugar/??/
a very severe eczema appeared all over my body and lasted two years .So definitely I was allergic to something.
Linda L.

RA tried everything: Methotraxate, Arava, Humira. Pneumonia three times. Anemia. Very low iron. Hypothyroidism
AP from April 2014 till August 2015. No luck.
Current medications: Natural thyroid, Mobic, supplements,
vitamins and minerals.
MTHFR heterozygous

[Author]

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