I got my Lyme Disease test back from Igenex

[Mumof3]

Thanks JB.

You asked “could IgM, IgG tests predict approximately when a patient got infected with Lyme? In other words, if IgM is all negative, could that mean a patient has a past infection, perhaps greater than 5 years ago???? “.

I'm not really sure. What Dr. Harris did say was that my IgM Band 34 was positive. He said that this particular band can take a while to show up as positive on bloodwork. Therefore a person can have it or be sick for a while and still test negative. Because mine is positive (++twice), it is likely that I have had Lyme for a while (over a year according to Dr. Harris).

I did find the following link that may be helpful to you. http://www.anapsid.org/lyme/wb.html

Here are a couple of paragraphs from the link:

“IgM antibodies are the first antibodies to be produced in the body in response to an infection, and is produced in great quantity. IgM antibodies are large, up to six times larger than the IgG antibodies. IgM antibodies, when present in high numbers, represent a new active infection or an existing infection that has become reactivated. Over time, the number of IgM antibodies will decline as the active infection is resolved.”

“IgG antibodies are produced once an infection has been going on for a while, and may be present after the infection has been resolved. Generally speaking, the presence of IgG antibodies to an organism when accompanied by a negative IgM test for the same organism means that the person was exposed to that organism at one time and developed antibodies to it, but does not have a current active infection of that organism. When it comes to Borrelia burgdorferi (Bb), the organism responsible for Lyme disease, that is not necessarily the case.”

“To recap, depending on the numbers,

IgM is a sign of a current infection.
IgG is a sign of a current infection, or of a past exposure to or past infection by the organism.”

I don't know about you JB but I'm a bit overwhelmed right now. I've made it a full time job staying on top of all of the research/info. I can find on scleroderma. Now I need to do the same for Lyme but there is so much info. out there a lot of which is over my head. At the same time, I know what caused me to get SD and I know what direction I am now headed. So onwards I go…………

[Roz]

Hi Again Maz,

Thanks soo much for the links I have printed them off, to give to him.

Yes, I think he has got it. But he is mentally gifted and if has affected him differently than myself. He was always in special classes etc..

At 7 years years old if I had to write a letter he insisted on proof reading if for me. He would ask me how real cars were made at 2 1/2, how I had a kid like him I will never know.

He never gave me a bit of trouble when I was bringing him up, excelled at everything he even touched. Like you maybe.:)

He started having severe leg and knee pains, after he did a tour in the gulf war a couple years back. Just a thought but maybe the injections the service gave him activivated the LYME more?

I am a single parent soo he refuses any help $$$ from me. My middle child is going to help me sell some antiques, I have to help him out. I have decided I am going  pre pay for the testing for him.

Wishing you heavenly blessings and earthly joys, Roz

[JBJBJB]

Roz,

Do you have any readings about cyst form medicine for Lyme treatment? Any medicine which are cyst buster :sick:? I want to know more about this cyst form theory and research. It makes sense why people feel completely normal under the medicine but after those medicine are stopped, all the symptoms would return (according to cyst forming theory).

I am also wondering if any combination of non-cysts-forming drugs could form cysts, too?

Thanks,

JB

[Roz]

http://www.lymeinfo.net/medical/LDAdverseConditions.pdf

[Roz]

Hi JB,

This aricle talks about GSE. I have been taking just a few drops a day and working up, it can really be powerfull.

Their is alot of meds that you cannot take with GSE. I know off hand some blood pressure meds and GSE DO NOT MIX.

Please check with your MD before taking it.

 

http://www.siv.no/webpro/dokument/564000_Citrosept.proof.pdf

 

[casey]

Hi All!

I have been following this thread closely and i am still somewhat…..well totally… confused!

I got my IGenex test results back today and this is what they read:

IGM (report says negative)

**23-25 kDa.    IND

**31      kDa       –

**34      kDa       –

**39      kDa       –

**41      kDa      IND

**83-93 kDa      –

all else neg

 

IGG-  (report says negative)

**23-25 kDa      –

**31      kDa      –

**34      kDa      –

**39      kDa     IND

**41      kDa       +

** 83-93 kDa      –

all else neg

 To me. it looks like i have lyme . Like others here, i just dont get the way they interpret the end result! Stars on some bands, not on others, then a negative, then an IND.

How would all of you who read these results interpret them as???? Do i appear to be a lymie on top of a mycoplasme and a whateverelseme????

Thanks so much,

Casey

[JBJBJB]

[user=9]casey[/user] wrote:

Hi All!

I have been following this thread closely and i am still somewhat…..well totally… confused!

I got my IGenex test results back today and this is what they read:

**41      kDa       +

 To me. it looks like i have lyme . Like others here, i just dont get the way they interpret the end result! Stars on some bands, not on others, then a negative, then an IND.

How would all of you who read these results interpret them as???? Do i appear to be a lymie on top of a mycoplasme and a whateverelseme????

Thanks so much,

Casey

 

Casey,

If you could search my previous post about a link which a lyme doctor specifically talked about 41 band positive, that may give you some clue.

I read this by Dr. C from the link Maz provided me above.

“Many would say the ” +/-” equivocal [“IND”] bands are not significant. The problem I have with that, is that there are “-” negative bands. The lab has no trouble calling some bands negative. So they must be seeing something when they put “+/-” at some bands.

The only thing that makes sense, is that there is a little bit of that antibody present in your serum. If the “+/-” equivocal is reported on the borrelia associated bands, it is usually significant, in my clinical experience. This is a strong clue that I am on the right track.

Instead of ignoring these, they should be a red flag to keep pursuing a laboratory diagnosis. Giving patients 4 weeks of antibiotics (usually tetracycline, 500 mg, 3 times a day), will convert a negative or equivocal Western blot to positive in about 36% of cases.

As mentioned, if these positive blots are found by specialty labs, over 99% of those patients will respond to antibiotics.

Sometimes multiple antibiotics have to be tried before the patient feels better. Antibiotics may actually help with the laboratory diagnosis. But patients need to be off antibiotics about 10 to 14 days before the Western blot is repeated. This sounds like a contradiction.

Antibiotics may help convert the test to positive, but patients need to be off antibiotics when the specimen is drawn.

It is well documented in medical literature that the presence of antibiotics may cause false negative borreliosis testing. Therefore, your system should be free of all antibiotics for an accurate blot result. “

Hope this helps!

JB

[nspiker]

Mum wrote,

I believe Kim and Maz pretty much told me the same thing. So go ahead Kim and Maz, you can say it……”I told you so”. I'm a good sport. I can take it. LOL. 

Mum, me too.  I owe Maz and Kim a debt of gratitude for coaxing me to pursue lyme testing.  I am still in disbelief that I have lyme.  I know that the minute Maz and Kim heard  about my symptoms, and the antibiotics that worked for me, they knew.  I still don't quite believe it, only there is no other explanation.

Last night we pulled a tick off our dog….never had a tick on me that I know of.  Then I read on lymenet that someone thought lyme could be transmitted from animals to humans.  I don't know.  Our previous dog died of leptospirosis, one month before I became sick.  I was with her every day at the vet hospital.  Leptospirosis is a spirochete, but supposedly I would be really sick if I had lepto.  

I read something from Dr. Klinghardt that stated common co-infections of lyme are; roundworms, tapeworms, threadworms, toxoplasmosis, giardia and amoebas, clostridia, the herpes family, parvovirus B19, active measles (in the intestines), leptospirosis, chronic strep infections and their mutations, babesia, brucella, erlichiosis, bartonella, mycoplasma, rickettsia, and a few others.

How do I know lepto can't cross-react with band 41 lyme?  Viruses can cross react, and I have those too.  I have been both positive and negative for toxoplasmosis, and I don't even have a cat, and don't like rare meat.  I can't figure it out.

The only thing I know is that whatever it is, is complicated.  I am wondering if we all have lyme, or some variance of these co-infections. There are no tools to determine a proper diagnosis, except clinical.  I am suspicious because I have been tested for lyme with labcorp numerous times over the years and was  always negative. According to Igenex testing, I am also negative.  After all these negative tests. 31 epitope shows positive.  It's just difficult when you haven't had a rash, or known tick exposure, to believe that you have lyme.  Maz has explained many times that band 31 cannot be anything other than lyme, and B burgdoferi can hide in biofilm, or change to l-forms or cysts, which are difficult to culture.  If band 31 is that specific, then why is Igenex not just testing 31 epitope?  I can understand the medical communities suspicions, because it's difficult to prove.  Those of us that are sick, just know we are, and if lyme is the answer, and we can get treatment, then we are lucky.  No one beside llmd's are willing, or knowledgeable enough,to take on this controversial epidemic.

So Mum and JB, and all of you others out there like me, that are having a hard time believing a tick bit us…..thank goodness for llmds who are willing to take us on, because without them we would be in a world of hurt!

Maz wrote:

Anyway….you're not alone, Mum….Nancy sang a little tune the other days that just made me hoot….”It's beginning to seem a lot like Lyme disease!” The irony in this is almost palpable. :sick:

Isn't it?   I wish it wasn't so, but at least we have each other, and Maz to lean on….

nancy

[nspiker]

Casey wrote:

Do i appear to be a lymie on top of a mycoplasme and a whateverelseme????

I don't know if you have lyme….we should defer to Maz for her educated prognosis. 
 
Band 41 is a flagella, and it can cross-react with viruses or other flagella or spirochetes.  You are only mildly positive, with one + 41.  You are IND for 23-25 and 39, which are borrelia specific. 

I would recommend calling Dr. Harris, which can be done on Mondays and Tuesdays and ask his opinion.  You may need a 31 epitope to confirm if you are positive.  They can use your same blood and test with a requisition from your doctor.  It's $100 for this test.

The question really goes to your symptoms.  What are they, and are you getting better with the treatment you are on?  If not, then you should pursue lyme or co-infections. 

That's my uneducated guess….
nancy

[casey]

Thanks JB and Nancy for the reply.

Nancy, my symptoms are so much less than they used to be, actually like night and day but….i guess my concern here is that this is a recent test after almost 30 months on AP using different rotated abx  ( i have never been tested for lyme  before and have never been on a specific lyme protocol). I tend to get freaked out about test results. Geez, I  wonder what it all would have read before any AP but thats neither here nor there now . Anyway, I just always like to be one up , so to speak, when it comes to all this, so i know have a short handle on what to do  next should something arise.

Thanks so much!

JB…I see your tests results are quite close to mine.

Casey

[JBJBJB]

[user=9]casey[/user] wrote:

JB…I see your tests results are quite close to mine.

Casey

IGG Results

CDC/NYS              Negative

    ** 31 KDa.         + +

    **41  KDa.         IND

        58 KDa.          +

Casey,

I beat you to it with one critical positive band which is 31. Just kidding. I think either 31 or 34 are important predictors, not so sure about 39. I also did confirmation test #489 which is positive. Now I feel a lot better after doing this confirmation test, knowing the probability of having Lyme is very high.

Hope you and I will figure this out.

:JB

[Mumof3]

[user=1552]nspiker[/user] wrote:

I read something from Dr. Klinghardt that stated common co-infections of lyme are; roundworms, tapeworms, threadworms, toxoplasmosis, giardia and amoebas, clostridia, the herpes family, parvovirus B19, active measles (in the intestines), leptospirosis, chronic strep infections and their mutations, babesia, brucella, erlichiosis, bartonella, mycoplasma, rickettsia, and a few others.

Hi Nancy, Yes you are absolutely right. I can't seem to get my head around it because I have never (to the best of my knowledge) been bitten by a tick. So how could I get Lyme? I know there are lots of other ways to get Lyme but a lot of it is way over my head at this point. I need to get into research mode to start understanding it a bit better.

From what you are saying about co-infections, does that mean if you have one of these co-infections you can get Lyme? I have a very high strep titre. Is there a connection there?

Also, from what I read Band 34 is specific for B. burgdorferi. Is Band 41 the same? Is that what you were positive for as well? My protocol is more specific for Babesia (which I think is more based on my symptoms and how I react to certain antibiotics). Would this protocol also address these other infections?

Sorry for all of the questions. You're right though. It is nice to know we have each other to lean on. It certainly helps!

[Kim]

Casey,

Band 23-25 is also very Lyme-specific.

http://www.truthaboutlymedisease.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=15

If you've gone as far as you can go on AP it only makes sense to go the distance with Lyme tx…….in my opinion. 😉

Take care………kim

p.s.   Band 39 is also Lyme-specific…if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck…..

[nspiker]

JB, Casey and Mum,

My results are similar to yours:
IGG
23-25 IND
39 IND
41 ++

IGM
31 IND
39 IND
41 +++

Mum wrote:

From what you are saying about co-infections, does that mean if you have one of these co-infections you can get Lyme? I have a very high strep titre. Is there a connection there?

From what I've read, supposedly the co-infections can either follow lyme or are present prior to lyme, and since borrelia paralyzes your immune system, you then become susceptible to co-infections.   The co-infections may have been there all the time, but the immune system kept them in check.  Then when lyme comes around the co-infections are activated. 

Here's that article from Dr. Klinghardt; it's very interesting and can give some insight to the complexities of this illness.

http://www.lymediseaseresource.com/wordpress/important-new-insights-from-dr-klinghardt/

Also, from what I read Band 34 is specific for B. burgdorferi. Is Band 41 the same? Is that what you were positive for as well? My protocol is more specific for Babesia (which I think is more based on my symptoms and how I react to certain antibiotics). Would this protocol also address these other infections?

Band 41 is a flagella, meaning it has a tail, so it could be various spirochetes (syphilis, leptospirosis, dental spirochete)or organisms with a tail.  As you can see, I was only positive for band 41 too.  I also was equivocal for babesia, and from what the llmd said, I should be treated for babesia.  No positives on either test, and yet I am being treated for babesia first (like you) and then, if symptoms persist, borrelia, or whatever else they come across.

Looks like we're all in the same boat…..

nancy

[Parisa]

JB,

I'm glad  to hear that you have lab results that can help point you in the right direction for treatment.  I know you'll keep at this until you find the right combination for you.

[Author]

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