Herx questions

[jlynne]

I have been on AP now since the beginning of February and have some questions regarding flares vs herx reactions.

Prior to starting, I developed neck pain and to this day it has never left. It seems like once the neck pain started my other symptoms in my wrists went away.

Now I am noticing small pains again in my wrists. Also in my right knee and left ankle which has never bothered me before. The pain lasts about a day and is gone. My right middle finger has been extremely sore extending down into my hand. Pain has always been there but this week seems to be worse.

Oh and did I mention my neck??? The rest of the pain in my body is nothing compared to this. It seemed to let up a bit the first couple of weeks of AP but today it is bad. I can’t even turn my head without the sides and back of my neck screaming in protest.

I’m not sure if I am flaring or herxing or a combination of both.

Do you experience pain in joints that have never bothered you during a herx, or is that just RA rearing it’s ugly head in new joints?

It’s confusing because I’m not sure what is happening. Any ideas would sure be appreciated to help calm a crazy mind on a sore neck.

[Svetulka]

jlynne,

it looks like me and you are experiencing similar things. I took my first Miocin yesterday 2 hours before dinner and decided to take my dog on a long walk. After 30 minutes of walking (I guess the antibiotics started to work by that time) I was in so much pain, I could barely get back home. My back was hurting, which is normal for me, but when my foot started to hurt out of nowhere, I became very concerned. When I got home, things slowly got better and this morning I felt great. Could the herxing effect be that quick? And why are my other joints affected?

[Maz]

@Svetulka wrote:

jlynne,

it looks like me and you are experiencing similar things. I took my first Miocin yesterday 2 hours before dinner and decided to take my dog on a long walk. After 30 minutes of walking (I guess the antibiotics started to work by that time) I was in so much pain, I could barely get back home. My back was hurting, which is normal for me, but when my foot started to hurt out of nowhere, I became very concerned. When I got home, things slowly got better and this morning I felt great. Could the herxing effect be that quick? And why are my other joints affected?

Hi JLynne and Svetulka,

Yes, herxing when beginning mino can occur quite quickly and pass quite quickly. This can depend on a number of things…dose, age, strength of immune function, disease severity, duration of disease, type of bug being hit, etc. For others, it can take a while for a herx to kick in and the herxing sticks around, sometimes coming in waves for months. When new joints are herxing, this is just a sign that the abx are hitting bugs in their hiding places. These are likely joints which would have been affected by the rheumatic disease at some point down the line. More herxing can occur each time the dose is changed or new abx added to the protocol.

Although the vertebrae are joints, too, it is a strange anomaly that the neck is most often spared in the case of RA and, if it is affected, it is probably worth considering Lyme disease. This was actually my first symptom and is due to a pseudo Lyme meningitis, as Lyme manages to get into the nervous system pretty quickly. My neck pain was so intense and came on so quickly, it knocked me sideways. I was unable to turn my head in any direction at all and after a couple weeks, my neck lymph glands became very swollen, making it very difficult to swallow.These symptoms, in addition to two EM rashes, told me it was Lyme, but not everyone is “fortunate” enough to see the offending tick or get a rash. This neck pain came and went, but when I started on abx therapy for Lyme and coinfections, it came back with avengence, including a nice dose of TMJ. Pretty much every joint, except my back (from neck down) was affected by herxing and some that had not been affected before.

Folk with spondylarthritides or overlaps of rheumatic disease that include spondylarthrides and reactive arthritides will also experience neck pain. These rheumatic diseases can be tricky to diagnose, because the only lab marker that may indicate these is the HLA B27 gene marker and not everyone will have this gene with a spondylarthritide…and, equally, not everyone with this particular gene will present with a spondyarthritide. So diagnosis can sometimes take several years, before all classic symptoms are manifest. This happened to my elderly MIL who has both psoriatic arthritis and ankylosing spondylitis. She had symptoms coming in and out for years and it was only when she had both psoriasis and arthritis in her neck, back, pelvis and peripheral joints that she got a confirmed diagnosis of PsA and AS.

http://arthritis.about.com/od/arthqa/f/HLAB27.htm

While herxing, it’s particularly important to get onto detoxing. I know it’s almost too much to think about when feeling so rough, but it is so important to help the body release those toxins, which are free-radicals producing all the inflammation and damage. 😉

[kali]

Hi guys,
I too have had severe neck pain – but mine is only down my right side and is finally no longer a mystery – but the workings of a toxic root canal. I too have had several tests and MRI’s that show nothing structurally. I had a smoldering infection going on in my body for years and did not know it was coming from a tooth. Mine is definitely in the connective tissue right down the side of my neck and into the top of my trapezius muscle. Could you have any other type of infection in your head such as in your tonsils, adnoids, ears that has not been discovered?

On the subject of herxing – I used to herx the day after taking my mino and this would last anywhere from 1-2 days. Now…I begin my herx about 2-5 hours after taking a dose and it usually lasts about 12 hours – with the worst of it lasting about 4-6 hours. I do still continue to herx each time I introduce the abx. But it has become less intense in both symptoms and duration. I found recently that some of my pain was cleared by doing lymphatic drainage massage. It helped me get to another level with my healing by clearing away some ‘stored’ toxins. I am definitely detoxing much better and much more rapidly these days and definitely not as hypersensitive.

I too have had other areas flare as a result of the herx that did not originally hurt. Like Maz mentioned – I just automatically assumed that there was something hiding out there 😈 that had not yet shown itself. Good for the mino for finding the monster!

I do hope you can figure out the neck pain jlynne. Maybe it is worth further exploration just to rule things out.

Kali

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